Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[VioletEclipse]

The B8Ls would probably have been better suited in Glasgow, but even then i think they're rather idiotic. I'd like to know what sort of tool decided to buy them without tag axles, was it Tim O'Toole? (sarcasm). As i say they should have just went with 12M examples rather than these 13M examples which have the turning circle of HMS Britannia!

I think we need a new thread with a poll asking how many days (from them entering service) it takes one of them to get stuck!

I say about a day (if that)

 

[VioletEclipse]

When it does eventually launch do we know if it will work like Oyster with daily capping?

I would hope so but we shall see when it launches, if it ever does.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Funnily enough i just said exactly that to someone elsewhere...

I somewhat agree though, this time in 10 years they won't be in Edinburgh anymore, they're just far too big for Edinburgh and the lack of steering tag axle really is a big punch in the stomach... They should have just went for 12M examples, but no they wanted to brag about 100 seats. Yet another TfE vanity project that hasn't been fully thought out!

It's a shame as they look brilliant and the specification on them internally is top notch.

I think these projects are somewhat on Richard Halls back not TFEs.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Glasgows ridership certainly isnt high enough to need such tri-axles.

 

[Lothian285]

I would hope so but we shall see when it launches, if it ever does.

Judging by the existing services that have contactless payments (Lothian Country and Airlink), I don't believe it will be like Oyster, but instead you still have buy a physical ticket just using your card as an alternative payment method to cash.

 

[Darklord8899]

.....I have been wondering about the suitability of these behemoths for Edinburgh streets. Surely only suitable for a limited number of routes and I'm not sure the management even know which routes could handle them either

I suspect Flickr and Twitter may end up awash with pictures of them stuck trying to make turns

 

[VioletEclipse]

.....I have been wondering about the suitability of these behemoths for Edinburgh streets. Surely only suitable for a limited number of routes and I'm not sure the management even know which routes could handle them either

I suspect Flickr and Twitter may end up awash with pictures of them stuck trying to make turns

Ha, lol. I'm sure Lothian will love the publicly if that happens (not), but the only route I can think of that has very few corners is service 31 (from Maybury to Cameron Toll it hardly has any corners to contend with).

 

[ANWP Tom]

Been thinking as well if Lothian could buy some more Londoners then they could be used on the routes that don't need the full length Doubles but equally can't be singles: Some of the routes that definitely would suit include

21, 29, 49

Some Potential

1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 14, 15, 19, 24, 33, 36, 45, 47

Obviously the 29 is already one but I'm just listing them all

The 1 and 2 could go down to Every 20 with peak enhancements. Both are badly overcrowded during the peak. Some could increase or decrease. Not sure about 12. Some are probably bad suggestions (notably in the peak) but it's just from my own experiences when on them

Just to clarify the 6 Probably doesn't need these

Recently on the 1 there has been 1/2 deckers on the evening runs, usually been 1 ex London and 1 of the older geminis. Unsure if this is a Christmas market arrangement though. 12s run with a few deckers with good loadings in the peak.

to me the ex London ones would suit the 19, 21 and 49 looking at usual loading I see. Think a recast of the fleet utilisation may come with the new bus introduction.

Just rolling thought here not either a fully logical or perfect approach but few things I could see happening fleet wise:
New buses going onto some or proportions of the 3, 25, 31 & 44 (seem to be the best loadings without newer buses)
Ex Londons going onto the 1
Enviro Hybrids centred on one route (14 seems to be a logical choice)


Service wise. Am I the only one who thinks the 30 is a cumbersome and poor route. Gets worse this time a year when fort traffic can put 3 running together and the capacity issue due to the newcraighall railway bridge means there is an over crowding issue.

As for solutions? turning it back at the fort with a connecting service to Musselburgh (maybe provided from ECB) and putting deckers on at least some.

Another one that intrigues me is would combining the 6 and 61 into 1 route work.

Just pondering it yesterday (and by no means an informed solution) morning as buses poured out of central yesterday morning as I headed to work. Elm row between 6 and 8 is a good place to be for what I basically a convoy out of Annandale street.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Recently on the 1 there has been 1/2 deckers on the evening runs, usually been 1 ex London and 1 of the older geminis. Unsure if this is a Christmas market arrangement though. 12s run with a few deckers with good loadings in the peak.

to me the ex London ones would suit the 19, 21 and 49 looking at usual loading I see. Think a recast of the fleet utilisation may come with the new bus introduction.

Just rolling thought here not either a fully logical or perfect approach but few things I could see happening fleet wise:
New buses going onto some or proportions of the 3, 25, 31 & 44 (seem to be the best loadings without newer buses)
Ex Londons going onto the 1
Enviro Hybrids centred on one route (14 seems to be a logical choice)


Service wise. Am I the only one who thinks the 30 is a cumbersome and poor route. Gets worse this time a year when fort traffic can put 3 running together and the capacity issue due to the newcraighall railway bridge means there is an over crowding issue.

As for solutions? turning it back at the fort with a connecting service to Musselburgh (maybe provided from ECB) and putting deckers on at least some.

Another one that intrigues me is would combining the 6 and 61 into 1 route work.

Just pondering it yesterday (and by no means an informed solution) morning as buses poured out of central yesterday morning as I headed to work. Elm row between 6 and 8 is a good place to be for what I basically a convoy out of Annandale street.

Alot of people also use the 30 to go into town from Musselburgh as well, Cutting it up would be a mistake!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Yup it certainly would be a mistake. The only way it could run with Doubles as by either paying a ridiculous sum for the bridge to be raised. Or miss out Newcraighall and go via A1 to QMU. The third option is to keep it as it is. Every one of the 3 ideas has a large number of problems. Imo if the 30 were doubles (with Londoners I might add) then surely every 15 minutes would be enough to cover it. As a part time resident on the route I've been using it since V reg darts were on it (Over 10 years). Buses from Musselburgh to Fort Kinnaird are extremely busy on Weekends where passengers would normally go to town during the week

 

[oldman]

Perhaps we should have bendy buses on the 30 .

Regarding the tri-axles, some council officials would like fewer buses in the city centre (gets in the way of cyclists and festivals) so they may have an influence on LB policy. They also want fewer bus-stops in the city. My feeling is ever since TFE started, they have interfered more than in the olden days.

 

[Darklord8899]

Perhaps we should have bendy buses on the 30 .
.

Lol aye, only problem is Mussy where bendys would fail miserably

 

[tbtc]

Perhaps we should have bendy buses on the 30 .

There's maybe something to be said for a frequent Hospital - Fort Kinnaird - QMU - Musselburgh corridor (possibly made up by the 106 and the 400 and a few "shorts")?

Extend the 19 beyond Kings Road in line with the 45 (so QMU retains a good service to the city centre) and extend some 4/5s to Fort Kinnaird?

Regarding the tri-axles, some council officials would like fewer buses in the city centre (gets in the way of cyclists and festivals) so they may have an influence on LB policy. They also want fewer bus-stops in the city. My feeling is ever since TFE started, they have interfered more than in the olden days.

Good point - there certainly seems to have been a move away from other roads in the City Centre (Royal Mile, George Street, The Mound etc) to force everything along Princes Street along with the trams - not just Lothian services but routes like the Stagecoaches to Fife.

There are obviously a few routes up the Mound but nothing like twenty years ago when the 28/29, 42/46, 45 etc went that way along with the 1/6/34/35 on the Royal Mile.

The changes in around 2000 diverted a few routes along Princes Street (e.g. the 1, 34) which makes sense since that's where the shops are (one of the reasons Eastern Scottish did so well thirty years ago was running buses along Princes Street from suburbs that previously lacked such links - e.g. Lochend).

Maybe the answer will be more routes like the 47 (or the 5, 7, 8, 14, 45, 49) so that suburbs have links to the city centre but not actually along Princes Street? Stick a few bendy buses on a route from Haymarket to Elm Row as crowd-busters?

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Off-peak bendys dont make sense, but even still, when the 30 does become crowded in its current form the 7900h’s have impressive standing capacity, that may not be ideal but it still works, regularly when companys star fiddling it puts alot of there customers noses out of joint, Lothian are pretty adept at contacting you on the radio and sorting things out quickly when things become bunched.

 

[ANWP Tom]

I wasn't suggesting cutting the 30, splitting it into 2 routes at the fort one to Musselburgh and the other towards town to try and counter the woeful timekeeping.

 

[overthewater]

There's maybe something to be said for a frequent Hospital - Fort Kinnaird - QMU - Musselburgh corridor (possibly made up by the 106 and the 400 and a few "shorts")?

Extend the 19 beyond Kings Road in line with the 45 (so QMU retains a good service to the city centre) and extend some 4/5s to Fort Kinnaird?

This idea has been floating around for years, including Dalkieth - Hospital - The fort - Muss.

Good point - there certainly seems to have been a move away from other roads in the City Centre (Royal Mile, George Street, The Mound etc) to force everything along Princes Street along with the trams - not just Lothian services but routes like the Stagecoaches to Fife.

the crossing and the lights dont help matter on the George street section.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Off-peak bendys dont make sense, but even still, when the 30 does become crowded in its current form the 7900h’s have impressive standing capacity, that may not be ideal but it still works, regularly when companys star fiddling it puts alot of there customers noses out of joint, Lothian are pretty adept at contacting you on the radio and sorting things out quickly when things become bunched.

Anytime i've been down to Edinburgh and had to use the 30 it's been hell, packed in like Sardines. Given that deckers cannot be used on the service i'd agree that Artics could be a possible option.

 

[oldman]

Stick a few bendy buses on a route from Haymarket to Elm Row as crowd-busters?

I believe the plan is for some sort of electric-powered bendy buses on rails, though a metro underground would be better. Wouldn't cost much, would it?

George Street is often blocked for events (like now) and the Council wants to keep it that way so everything has to go via Princes Street. This causes problems with slow-boarding Stagecoaches sharing stops with Lothian. In the past I think country buses mostly went via George Street.

 

[sam120]

ECB will introduce contactless very soon methinks, just been on 10102 and it has a contactless pad on it.

 

[ANWP Tom]

This idea has been floating around for years, including Dalkieth - Hospital - The fort - Muss.

That would make sense and from rumblings ive heard from friends living out there at least one an hour through to Pathhead would increase its catchment. Apparently a lot of locals been asking about extending some 3s for a long time now.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

That would make sense and from rumblings ive heard from friends living out there at least one an hour through to Pathhead would increase its catchment. Apparently a lot of locals been asking about extending some 3s for a long time now.

Well extending the Campus buses is no trouble, you can just continue down the B6414 and then go along the A68. My only concern is that there doesn't appear to be a proper turning point at Pathhead. Instead you would need to use the narrow roads as a weird one way loop. Nice idea though

 

[Auld reekie]

What depot are the tri-axles located?

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

What depot are the tri-axles located?

Central.

 

[Auld reekie]

Central.

Cheers.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Tracker has been down since about 09:20 this morning

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It's been on and off all week. Seems to work for 30 mins then break for 10 and so on. Was doing that this morning but has been completely broken since 11am

 

[Darklord8899]

.....Maybe the tracker decided that it was too cold today and stayed in bed

 

[overthewater]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....VhfJl_fLR5rnpGEOpz8z_dlmJ8AwUcSa-wp6OJ2Z8CYSk

A BUS driver has been sacked and up to ten others suspended for complaining about bosses on a closed Facebook group. Employees at Lothian Buses say the move against colleagues is the latest example of a growing problem of bullying and harassment by management at the council-owned bus company – and some drivers are calling for a walk-out in protest. One source said: “A guy was suspended because he had the temerity to speak about a boss on a closed Facebook page for drivers.” Another insider said: “One driver at Marine garage was sacked over an alleged breach of the so-called social media policy, and there have been a number suspended over the same thing. One of the drivers has also had his pay stopped. It’s coming up to Christmas and he has a family to support. “People are saying it’s like a witch hunt. But now drivers are increasingly wanting to do something about it. It may lead to industrial action.” The insider said individual managers were not named in the social media comments. He also said one of the offending posts had been about the company’s new uniform: “The drivers don’t like the new uniform at all and someone suggested on the Facebook page they should all turn up in their old uniforms in protest, But someone else took a screenshot [of the comments] and handed it to managers.” Incidents of bullying, he said, included a manager grabbing a driver’s headphones and saying he was not allowed to wear them, and a similar confrontation involving a hat. Another occurred when a driver was accused of wearing a fleece under his company jacket and a manager who wanted to discuss the matter prevented the driver from leaving the office even though his shift was over. “Drivers have had enough. Morale in the garages is at an all-time low. They’re ready to go for industrial action.” One driver said: “The issues are 90 per cent the same as the grievances the tram drivers had.” Drivers at Edinburgh Trams voted 70 per cent in favour of a strike at Christmas over claims of a “hostile and aggressive management culture” which it was claimed had led to “harsh and unjust” disciplinary action. The action was called off earlier this month when management and union leaders reached an agreement. Conservative transport spokesman Nick Cook said: “The issues raised by Lothian Buses employees are concerning and should be fully investigated.” A spokeswoman for Lothian Buses said they would not comment on individual circumstances relating to employees, but said: “Lothian has a robust social media policy in place which offers stringent protection and support for both the people within our organisation and our customers. “We have established procedures that have been agreed with our trade union and are followed at all times. We advise any employee with concerns to speak to one of their local managers or stewards directly.”

Read more at: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....VhfJl_fLR5rnpGEOpz8z_dlmJ8AwUcSa-wp6OJ2Z8CYSk

 

[VioletEclipse]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....VhfJl_fLR5rnpGEOpz8z_dlmJ8AwUcSa-wp6OJ2Z8CYSk

Yeah Lothian are in urgent need of new management

 

[VioletEclipse]

I guess Richard and co will be gone by the summer