Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[OmniCity999]

Interesting.

I am guessing service 31 will be one of the routes to get new buses. Harder to predict the others but maybe the 37 and 44 would be contenders.

I imagine the 20 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5LH's (hybrids) are bound for the 31 or the 25, both routes require around 20 vehicles in the peak. The first batch of 25 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TL's (non-hybrid) may be for the 44 as it's peak vehicle requirement (PVR) is around 25, although, that would mean splitting a batch bewteen two depots as the 44 is split between Marin/Longstone, and is staying as such come the changes, between two depots that is, not necessarily Marine/Longstone.

Or i could be wrong but they could be starting to buy new doubles for central/marine as these two depots have been somewhat neglected, compared to Longstone. Longstone receiving at least 100 new buses since 2014 and the other two receiving substantially less. The 25 is moving to Marine (come the Feb changes), so would be nice to see the 25 getting the new hybrids, that way Marine gets new buses and a new route - just a thought!

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I imagine the 20 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5LH's (hybrids) are bound for the 31 or the 25, both routes require around 20 vehicles in the peak. The first batch of 25 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TL's (non-hybrid) may be for the 44 as it's peak vehicle requirement (PVR) is around 25, although, that would mean splitting a batch bewteen two depots as the 44 is split between Marin/Longstone, and is staying as such come the changes, between two depots that is, not necessarily Marine/Longstone.

Or i could be wrong but they could be starting to buy new doubles for central/marine as these two depots have been somewhat neglected, compared to Longstone. Longstone receiving at least 100 new buses since 2014 and the other two receiving substantially less. The 25 is moving to Marine (come the Feb changes), so would be nice to see the 25 getting the new hybrids, that way Marine gets new buses and a new route - just a thought!

Yes Longstone has certainly had it's share of new buses recently on the 3,22,34 and 300. Central is certainly due some.

From looking at the new timetable I think the 44 will carry on as just now.

 

[Tom1791]

I think the original plan was for the B5LHs to go on the 25 and the B5TLs to go on the 31 from what I have read although this may have changed.
I imagine the refurbished B9s will mostly operate out of central - the 8 and 41 operate through air quality management zones so they may be an option. Also the 37 is an option to ensure Lothian do not loose too many passengers to borders buses. Even the 16 could be possible as Morningside has not had new buses for years and it operates with a pretty consistent number of vehicles throughout the day (with 11 enhancements to cater for schoolchildren/Morningside commuters). Longstone has had a huge number of new buses lately so I wouldn't be surprised if central and marine get most of them this year.

Is there any news on the vehicles that will be used for the new East Coast Buses 139/140?

 

[OmniCity999]

I think the original plan was for the B5LHs to go on the 25 and the B5TLs to go on the 31 from what I have read although this may have changed.
I imagine the refurbished B9s will mostly operate out of central - the 8 and 41 operate through air quality management zones so they may be an option. Also the 37 is an option to ensure Lothian do not loose too many passengers to borders buses. Even the 16 could be possible as Morningside has not had new buses for years and it operates with a pretty consistent number of vehicles throughout the day (with 11 enhancements to cater for schoolchildren/Morningside commuters). Longstone has had a huge number of new buses lately so I wouldn't be surprised if central and marine get most of them this year.

Is there any news on the vehicles that will be used for the new East Coast Buses 139/140?

The new vehicles will be issued along side their PVR. 25 vehicles required - 25 allocated. 20 vehicles required - 20 allocated

10101-10107, the used Arriva Fast Track buses that were bought when ECB was set up are to be used. They will be used until the 124 goes double deck in the third quarter of the year - they will then be withdrawn and sold and 10051-65 will be used - as well as them being used on X5,106 and X7's

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Very interesting thank you. As a regular user of the 44 (and 26) I hope the fact it operates out of two depots doesn't stop it getting new buses. Just my biased opinion of course.

 

[OmniCity999]

Very interesting thank you. As a regular user of the 44 (and 26) I hope the fact it operates out of two depots doesn't stop it getting new buses. Just my biased opinion of course.

They'd need to split the batch, wich was done when the 44 was branded. 726-740 were Longstone based and 741-750 were (and still are) Marine based. Anything's possible.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I see. I hadn't realised they had been split so long. Prior to being split they were all based at Longstone I assume? I remember when 701-750 came in 2005 (701-721 for service 3 and 722-725 unbranded) and assumed they were all Longstone.
On the subject of Longstone - do you know what extra service(s) it will take on when the 25 moves to Marine?

 

[OmniCity999]

I see. I hadn't realised they had been split so long. Prior to being split they were all based at Longstone I assume? I remember when 701-750 came in 2005 (701-721 for service 3 and 722-725 unbranded) and assumed they were all Longstone.
On the subject of Longstone - do you know what extra service(s) it will take on when the 25 moves to Marine?

Longstone's getting the 23, apparently confirmed in staff newsletter. There was also a rumour on another forum that Longstone's percentage of the 44 was going to Central. Which i dont believe because that would surely cause dead mileage for late finishes in Balerno. I believe the split was even in place when 726-750 were new - not 100% sure.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Longstone's getting the 23, apparently confirmed in staff newsletter. There was also a rumour on another forum that Longstone's percentage of the 44 was going to Central. Which i dont believe because that would surely cause dead mileage for late finishes in Balerno. I believe the split was even in place when 726-750 were new - not 100% sure.

That would make sense as the 23 has been there before.

I am certain that the 44 will stay at Longstone as the new timetable has several references to journeys starting and ending at Longstone. In fact when I first looked at it I thought the whole fleet was going to be based there however we know that not to be the case.

 

[DuncanS]

First ECB trip yesterday, working in Tranent so the 104 out and back - very impressed that it was £1.60 each way as that's not what the signs at the bus stop indicate it will be.

 

[overthewater]

First ECB trip yesterday, working in Tranent so the 104 out and back - very impressed that it was £1.60 each way as that's not what the signs at the bus stop indicate it will be.

Tranent is part of the Lothian buses network thus that fare has alway been that price in the town.

 

[DuncanS]

which isn't how I read the ECB sign at stop PN - it says Tranent is in zone D (or whichever one it is) and that four zones is £3.60

I wonder if they catch out the unwary on that?

 

[overthewater]

Tranent is in Zone B:

* travel in 1 zone or 2 zones IF it includes city zone a £1.60

If that is of any use.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

A very rare sight indeed today. A Trident operating on service 26. Won't see that happening too many more times before the Tridents are taken out of service.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I imagine the 20 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5LH's (hybrids) are bound for the 31 or the 25, both routes require around 20 vehicles in the peak. The first batch of 25 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TL's (non-hybrid) may be for the 44 as it's peak vehicle requirement (PVR) is around 25, although, that would mean splitting a batch bewteen two depots as the 44 is split between Marin/Longstone, and is staying as such come the changes, between two depots that is, not necessarily Marine/Longstone.

Or i could be wrong but they could be starting to buy new doubles for central/marine as these two depots have been somewhat neglected, compared to Longstone. Longstone receiving at least 100 new buses since 2014 and the other two receiving substantially less. The 25 is moving to Marine (come the Feb changes), so would be nice to see the 25 getting the new hybrids, that way Marine gets new buses and a new route - just a thought!

Another thing I have noticed recently is that some buses are being marked with letters to represent the depot they are from. Mainly seeing this on the newest buses but others are showing this too. E.G. The 26 has the code MA, the 22 LS and the 100 has CE.

 

[route101]

A very rare sight indeed today. A Trident operating on service 26. Won't see that happening too many more times before the Tridents are taken out of service.

Seen a few on the 12 other day , thought that was a mostly singles route .

 

[smtglasgow]

One of Lothian’s strengths is their willingness to build up a service over time. You can see it happening with East Coast Buses, but the new timetable on the 29 reminded me that its taken a few years for them to get to the stage of running a full day service, 7 days a week, out to Gorebridge. Each incremental improvement (running till mid-evening, running till 11 etc) has been allowed to bed in before they moved on. Presumably they now have a sustainable service (despite the Borders railway) and you can’t help contrasting with the previous incumbent. Not many companies have the patience (and, yes, the financial leeway) to do this.

 

[route101]

One of Lothian’s strengths is their willingness to build up a service over time. You can see it happening with East Coast Buses, but the new timetable on the 29 reminded me that its taken a few years for them to get to the stage of running a full day service, 7 days a week, out to Gorebridge. Each incremental improvement (running till mid-evening, running till 11 etc) has been allowed to bed in before they moved on. Presumably they now have a sustainable service (despite the Borders railway) and you can’t help contrasting with the previous incumbent. Not many companies have the patience (and, yes, the financial leeway) to do this.

When i look at the Lothian Buses route map its quite a dense network compared to Glasgows for instance

 

[overthewater]

It's clear the railway has had some impact on Lothian buses route in the area, since there are cutting back on some routes.

 

[ian1944]

A couple of points on the ECB changes from 25 Feb:

(1) Not before time, the 107 Edinburgh/Dunbar limited stop service will be renumbered to X7.

(2) The country zones fare will go from £2.60 to £2.70 for travel in two adjacent zones. Small increase, but still applies to a short trip across a zone boundary. I suspect that quite a few passengers are lost and no fare at all taken, whereas if things were changed to £1.70 (new fare) for travel in two zones, with £2.70 applying only for a third zone, then passenger numbers would increase - and possibly revenue. I know that the zone boundaries tend to be in the gaps between towns, but there must be some people wishing to make a short trip across them.

Apart from the quibble in (2), it's clear from personal usage and reported opinion that the the service (vehicle quality and cleanliness, reliability and adherence to timetable) is vastly better than in days of First.

 

[317 forever]

Following on from above.

Official release from Lothian to an enthusiast group. Lothian now have a member of staff that liaises between the company and the enthusiast group, creating a close relationship.

Here's the internal statement they are putting/have put out...

"We have acquired 50 ex London Wright bus Gemini Euro 5 Double Deckers for our business, these will help in removing Euro 3 Plaxton President Dennis Tridents and Wright bus Gemini 1 Volvo B7TLs from the fleet during 2018, along with additional new vehicle deliveries through the year and meeting our BUS2020 strategy and target of a fleet operating only at Euro 5 or above including diesel hybrid and pure electric.

As you might expect they will be refurbished to Lothian’s exacting standards including the removal of centre doors, air chill units and associated equipment.

High back Lazzerini seats will be fitted along with USB’s, wood effect flooring as seen on our recent new buses, along with replacement energy efficient LED internal lighting, white LED Destination displays and front wheelchair ramps.

Watch this space for pictures of the refurbishments, more information on route allocation and fleet numbers as things progress..."

A large amount of new buses is due this year including but not limited to:
5 X Wright StreetAir Electric Single Deckers
20 X Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5LH's (Hybirds - Like those on the 300 and 34)
25 x Wright Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TL's (Standard diesel buses, like those on the 22,26,100,200 etc)

More doubles may be due and some singles may also be due, to replace the early 100's. These new arrivals and used London stock will kill off the Tridents and make a huge dent in the cull of the B7TL's. Lothian's B7's are numbered 701-825.

Thank you for your detail regarding news of this purchase. I hope that some of these ex-London Volvo B9TLs will be in service in time for my already-booked visit to Edinburgh on May 26th.

 

[317 forever]

I'm presuming most of these ex-London deckers are the huge batch of B9TL/Geminis that Metroline withdrew a few months ago after they lost the 18. They were new to First Centrewest, so I guess 17 years after the Edinburgh bus war in 2001 First have finally made an inroad into Lothian, just not in the way we thought.

Sounds like my trip to Edinburgh last year was in the nick of time to travel on their Tridents.

Another spin on this is that Lothian Buses have benefitted with routes from former First operations in the Lothians and for rolling stock from former First operations in London! Suppose route 18 had been gained by London United from First London instead of successor Metroline. First would surely have retained the Volvo B9TLs and cascaded these or older buses to provincial operations. These might have included Glasgow instead of Edinburgh .....

 

[317 forever]

Another thing I have noticed recently is that some buses are being marked with letters to represent the depot they are from. Mainly seeing this on the newest buses but others are showing this too. E.G. The 26 has the code MA, the 22 LS and the 100 has CE.

I welcome this, and hope this does spread. This reminds me of the time when Lothian Buses had a picture of a single or double-deck on timetables, depending on which type worked the route in question. I have not been there since 2014 so am not sure whether this still happens now.

 

[tbtc]

It's clear the railway has had some impact on Lothian buses route in the area, since there are cutting back on some routes.

I don't think you can blame the railway for the cuts to the 5 or the 19?

If anything, the changes to the 29 (Silverknowes - Gilmerton reduced from four buses per hour to three buses per hour, but the Gorebridge frequency increased from two buses per hour to three buses per hour) means more competition for the railway (i.e. the fastest bus from Gorebridge into the City Centre is going to be more frequent).

Extra ECB journeys on the X7 to Dunbar at rush hour seems to be *more* competition with the railway too?

 

[overthewater]

There has been some effects, over the course of 20months there has been other cuts like the 33 and 49 being reduced 15mins to 20mins. Travel time Lothian buses just can't compete. Mind you the old X81 by first during the day just carried fresh air.

 

[smtglasgow]

If anything, the changes to the 29 (Silverknowes - Gilmerton reduced from four buses per hour to three buses per hour, but the Gorebridge frequency increased from two buses per hour to three buses per hour) means more competition for the railway (i.e. the fastest bus from Gorebridge into the City Centre is going to be more frequent).

The Borders railway has had *some* impact on the parallel bus routes, but there is still a lot of housebuilding in the area, so plenty of business for both. If anything, Lothian’s weird 10/20 frequency on the 3 to Mayfield and their constant tinkering with the Penicuik routes are more baffling.

I’m probably going to working in Edinburgh from September, so I’m weighing up moving East. If I do, it looks like Dalkeith/Newtongrange are the only affordable areas with easy access to the Uni, so I’m taking a keen interest in Lothian’s routes in the area. The peak express buses are competitive with the train if you don’t work within easy reach of Waverley, but the normal stopping routes are a slog.

 

[overthewater]

The Fastest bus in the whole area is the x95 when runs along the main road Newtongrange and A7.

 

[pgfb1306]

I believe the split was even in place when 726-750 were new - not 100% sure.

Can confirm all of 701-750 were new to Longstone, as the differing destination equipment on 747-750 always caused some issues!!

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Can confirm all of 701-750 were new to Longstone, as the differing destination equipment on 747-750 always caused some issues!!

Thanks. That had been my understanding.

The 44 being split between Longstone and Marine initially passed me by.

I could be wrong but prior to 2001 I believe the 44's were operated from Central.

 

[AJW12]

From Flickr today: https://www.flickr.com/photos/km_edinburgh/38613052820/in/feed

Would seem like the remaining handful ex-Airlink B5s are now going back into service after a repaint, replacement of their seat covers and installation of the double screen next stop information at the front. A couple were in service today, and at least 426, 430 and 436-7 are now at Longstone.

Also, courtesy of the same Flickr page - if you wondered what the B9 refurbs look like from the front: https://www.flickr.com/photos/km_edinburgh/39712326134/in/photostream/.
Think they look very smart, but personally I'm not keen on the private plate. Between 40-50 (depending on where you read!) of these are coming soon so the days of the Trident are numbered...