Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[OmniCity999]

From Flickr today: https://www.flickr.com/photos/km_edinburgh/38613052820/in/feed

Would seem like the remaining handful ex-Airlink B5s are now going back into service after a repaint, replacement of their seat covers and installation of the double screen next stop information at the front. A couple were in service today, and at least 426, 430 and 436-7 are now at Longstone.

Also, courtesy of the same Flickr page - if you wondered what the B9 refurbs look like from the front: https://www.flickr.com/photos/km_edinburgh/39712326134/in/photostream/.
Think they look very smart, but personally I'm not keen on the private plate. Between 40-50 (depending on where you read!) of these are coming soon so the days of the Trident are numbered...

Official company word is 2 X 61 Plate B9 Gemini 2's with Gasket Glazing and low back seats (already arrived and ready for service) and 48 X 60 Plate B9 Gemini 2's with Bonded Glazing and high back seats - theses are returning to Wright Bus for modernisation / prep for service. 50 private plates coming in at £16,500 for the lot of them - including issue costs. £16,500 on private plates. Madness.

 

[overthewater]

Why are there wasting £16'000 on Private plate???? Sure there 8 years old but there replacement buses that are 18 years old..... Watch out for scandal in the Edinburgh evening news/Scotsman,

 

[Observer]

The private plates are pointless but it's not exactly going to create a huge money hole. Selling a decker will cover that (which will be happening once the replacements are in service), ex-Lothian stock sells at good prices.

 

[alexf380]

Interestingly, that one's been given CE depot code. I'd expected Marine depot to get these buses to get rid of the Tridents. I guess some sort of a fleet reshuffle shall be happening with these service changes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The private plates are pointless but it's not exactly going to create a huge money hole. Selling a decker will cover that (which will be happening once the replacements are in service), ex-Lothian stock sells at good prices.

Private plates are not my sort of thing but it isn’t money down the drain. They do have an inherent value.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Children are starving on the streets while the council spend £16.000 on another vanity project... That's all i have to say on the matter!

 

[takno]

Children are starving on the streets while the council spend £16.000 on another vanity project... That's all i have to say on the matter!

This is a commercial decision made by a what happens to be a largely council-owned company. It will probably turn a profit, and nobody will have asked any councillors about it anyway. Restricting Lothian Buses ability to act because of some tedious won't-somebody-think-of-the-children false dichotomy would not benefit anybody.

 

[Jordan Adam]

This is a commercial decision made by a what happens to be a largely council-owned company. It will probably turn a profit, and nobody will have asked any councillors about it anyway. Restricting Lothian Buses ability to act because of some tedious won't-somebody-think-of-the-children false dichotomy would not benefit anybody.

I still think the money could be better spent.

 

[oldman]

I guess Lothian think that Project 'look at these lovely, shiny, good-as-new buses we're buying' is a good idea, and hiding the actual age of the buses is part of that.

They are a bit too much in love with their own marketing for my liking, but on the other hand, they have done a good job advertising the fares increase with a sticker near the door on every bus. Now, if they could just sort out the legroom, ...

 

[overthewater]

I still think the money could be better spent.

Your right.

I think Edinburgh city council who are shareholder should be asking if this is a wise way to spend £16'000.... There going to stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[takno]

Your right.

I think Edinburgh city council who are shareholder should be asking if this is a wise way to spend £16'000.... There going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Edinburgh Council's budget is nearly a billion quid, and a small number of councillors are responsible for making sure that money is well-spent. Any time they spend second guessing the marketing experts in a company they are shareholders in about whether such a small amount of money is a worthwhile investment or not is time they are not able to spend monitoring their bigger ticket items. The fact of the matter is that Lothian Buses runs a high quality network of buses well, offers cheap fares, is generally very popular and makes a lot of money for the council. If you start questioning every little decision they make all you are likely to achieve is for that situation to end, and meanwhile somewhere else in the council someone will mess up properly and waste a million.

 

[overthewater]

Its £16'000 on useless vanity...... you may not think its alot of money in living in the real world most people do. Mark my words Evening news will find out about this one way or another. ( not from me)

 

[takno]

Its £16'000 on useless vanity...... you may not think its alot of money in living in the real world most people do. Mark my words Evening news will find out about this one way or another. ( not from me)

I dont personally think it's a particularly good use of money, although I'm not privvy to the whole plan and I'm not exactly great at marketing so I'm really not that qualified to judge. I just think throwing toys out of prams and cursing the cooncil out for not going to comically wasteful lengths to second guess every little decision in their billion pound budget isn't an especially useful response.

 

[OmniCity999]

Interestingly, that one's been given CE depot code. I'd expected Marine depot to get these buses to get rid of the Tridents. I guess some sort of a fleet reshuffle shall be happening with these service changes.

The first 25 are going to Central - no word on the next 25. Buses will shuffle between depots to allow for tridents to be removed and others to take their place.

Now, onto the fleet shuffle. According to fellow Lothian staff who officially liaise with an online forum - here are the movements come the changes.

"Lothian
112 Longstone to Central
113 Longstone to Reserve
122 Longstone to Reserve
123 Longstone to Reserve
124 Longstone to Reserve
160 Marine to Longstone
161 Marine to Longstone
162 Marine to Longstone
163 Marine to Longstone
637 Longstone to Reserve
641 Longstone to Reserve
647 Longstone to Reserve
648 Longstone to Reserve
649 Longstone to Reserve
655 Longstone to Reserve
715 Central to Longstone
716 Central to Longstone
717 Central to Longstone
718 Central to Longstone
719 Central to Longstone
720 Central to Longstone

426, 428, 429, 430 will now go from reserve to Longstone
628, 630, 634, 659 - Longstone to reserve

East Coast Buses
10101 Reserve to EastCoast
10102 Reserve to EastCoast
10103 Reserve to EastCoast
10104 Reserve to EastCoast
10105 Reserve to EastCoast
10106 Reserve to EastCoast
10107 Reserve to EastCoast
10195 Reserve to EastCoast"

As above
715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720 (6) going central to Longstone allows 637, 641, 647, 648, 649, 655 (6) to be withdrawn. Gaining 6, losing 6.

As above
426, 428, 429, 430 (4) going from reserve to Longstone allows 628, 630, 634, 659 (4) to go Longstone to be withdrawn. Gaining 4, losing 4.

___________________________
Any thing below here is my opinion - bare in mind i work for the company, but this is my opinion - not fact.

Central having lost 715 - 720 (6), 701-714 (14) will follow suit, removing 660-665/667/673-681 (11) from Longstone. Central are now down 20 buses, they then gain 1001-1025, Longstone's allocation of Tridents is gone.

Central are then up 5 buses meaning 5 of Marine's Tridents can go with 5 of Central's B7's taking their place. Every depot ends up with the correct amount of buses.

Say Marine get 1026-1050, Marines remaining 14 Tridents can be withdrawn and they can start removing 11 X B7's.

By which time, the next batch of 25 X B5TL's and 20 X B5LH's will be ready, meaning 45 X B7's can be removed from the fleet.

By the end of 2019 the B7's, at lest within the main fleet, will be history. Lothian can then start removing B9's starting with 1001-1050.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Its £16'000 on useless vanity...... you may not think its alot of money in living in the real world most people do. Mark my words Evening news will find out about this one way or another. ( not from me)

You’re still not getting it.

It’s £16k but you get an asset that you can sell in future so it’s not like you’re spending on nothing.

Also, whilst £16k seems like a lot to an individual, it represents 0.1% of profit and 0.01% of costs.

Some idiot may tell the local rag but it’s hardly up there with the tram debacle!!

 

[overthewater]

Local rag will rip them to shreds over this, You can see this a mile off, and there linked to the fare rises and service cut back about to happen. PR disterer.

 

[OmniCity999]

You’re still not getting it.

It’s £16k but you get an asset that you can sell in future so it’s not like you’re spending on nothing.

Also, whilst £16k seems like a lot to an individual, it represents 0.1% of profit and 0.01% of costs.

Some idiot may tell the local rag but it’s hardly up there with the tram debacle!!

I must add - £12,500 for the plates themselves, comes to £16,500 after assignment to vehicles. To put into context for those that are finding this difficult to understand and mirror above comments - Lothian's Scanias are Selling at £50,000 each... Vehicles that paid for themselves at least three times over in their operational career are selling for £50k used... Bay Travel got their two at a discount coming in at £90,000.

The Tridents are selling for considerably less, but this expense on private plates is literally nothing to Lothian - it's peanuts.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I must add - £12,500 for the plates themselves, comes to £16,500 after assignment to vehicles. To put into context for those that are finding this difficult to understand and mirror above comments - Lothian's Scanias are Selling at £50,000 each... Vehicles that paid for themselves at least three times over in their operational career are selling for £50k used... Bay Travel got their two at a discount coming in at £90,000.

The Tridents are selling for considerably less, but this expense on private plates is literally nothing to Lothian - it's peanuts.

Sorry, I forgot to net off the £4k for the admin charges. You're right - that is the true cost - they'll get the £12k back though when they dispose of the plates.

In the cosmic scheme of things, if people are getting upset about a £4k spend on a business that makes £13m profit, they need to get a firm grip. However, you might argue that the sort of person who gets aerated about that sort of thing/writes in the comments section of the local rag etc is all to familiar with getting a firm grip on themselves!

 

[Lothian_Bus]

The first 25 are going to Central - no word on the next 25. Buses will shuffle between depots to allow for tridents to be removed and others to take their place.

Now, onto the fleet shuffle. According to fellow Lothian staff who officially liaise with an online forum - here are the movements come the changes.

"Lothian
112 Longstone to Central
113 Longstone to Reserve
122 Longstone to Reserve
123 Longstone to Reserve
124 Longstone to Reserve
160 Marine to Longstone
161 Marine to Longstone
162 Marine to Longstone
163 Marine to Longstone
637 Longstone to Reserve
641 Longstone to Reserve
647 Longstone to Reserve
648 Longstone to Reserve
649 Longstone to Reserve
655 Longstone to Reserve
715 Central to Longstone
716 Central to Longstone
717 Central to Longstone
718 Central to Longstone
719 Central to Longstone
720 Central to Longstone

426, 428, 429, 430 will now go from reserve to Longstone
628, 630, 634, 659 - Longstone to reserve

East Coast Buses
10101 Reserve to EastCoast
10102 Reserve to EastCoast
10103 Reserve to EastCoast
10104 Reserve to EastCoast
10105 Reserve to EastCoast
10106 Reserve to EastCoast
10107 Reserve to EastCoast
10195 Reserve to EastCoast"

As above
715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720 (6) going central to Longstone allows 637, 641, 647, 648, 649, 655 (6) to be withdrawn. Gaining 6, losing 6.

As above
426, 428, 429, 430 (4) going from reserve to Longstone allows 628, 630, 634, 659 (4) to go Longstone to be withdrawn. Gaining 4, losing 4.

___________________________
My opinion - bare in mind i work for the company, but this is my opinion - not fact.

Central having lost 715 - 720 (6), 701-714 (14) will follow suit, removing 660-665/667/673-681 (11) from Longstone. Central are now down 20 buses, they then gain 1001-1025, Longstone's allocation of Tridents is gone.

Central are then up 5 buses meaning 5 of Marine's Tridents can go with 5 of Central's B7's taking their place. Every depot ends up with the correct amount of buses.

Say Marine get 1026-1050, Marines remaining 14 Tridents can be withdrawn and they can start removing 11 X B7's.

By which time, the next batch of 25 X B5TL's and 20 X B5LH's will be ready, meaning 45 X B7's can be removed from the fleet.

By the end of 2019 the B7's, at lest within the main fleet, will be history. Lothian can then start removing B9's starting with 1001-1050.

Thanks. A very interesting post.

Longstone certainly has had a good share of the new buses hasn't it.

No word on what Central route the first 25 will go onto?

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks. A very interesting post.

Longstone certainly has had a good share of the new buses hasn't it.

No word on what Central route the first 25 will go onto?

Said to just be going in the 'pool' and will be used where and when required, with brand new buses being allocated to routes

 

[90019]

Children are starving on the streets while the council spend £16.000 on another vanity project... That's all i have to say on the matter!

Lothian's money ≠ council money.

Central having lost 715 - 720 (6), 701-714 (14) will follow suit,

At least some of the latter are already at Longstone.

713 has been away for weeks, which is a shame because it's by far the best 700 to drive, imo.

 

[OmniCity999]

Deleted

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Said to just be going in the 'pool' and will be used where and when required, with brand new buses being allocated to routes

Thanks. I assume that Marine and Central must be getting the majority of the new buses this time.

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks. I assume that Marine and Central must be getting the majority of the new buses this time.

As stated above - 1001-1025 are going to Central, no word on 1026-1050. No word on where any new buses will be destined for - they will be allocated to a specific route though.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

As stated above - 1001-1025 are going to Central, no word on 1026-1050. No word on where any new buses will be destined for - they will be allocated to a specific route though.

Thanks for the info. Helps geeks like me who are fascinated by the organistion that goes into running a bus company like Lothian.

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks for the info. Helps geeks like me who are fascinated by the organistion that goes into running a bus company like Lothian.

A friend of mine sent me this, think you may enjoy it... He's waiting for his account to be approved on here so i'll post it here just now.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

A friend of mine sent me this, think you may enjoy it... He's waiting for his account to be approved on here so i'll post it here just now.

Thanks very much. Will have a look now.
Interesting today seeing service 23 being operated from Longstone and using the spare buses from the 22 fleet.

 

[tbtc]

A friend of mine sent me this, think you may enjoy it... He's waiting for his account to be approved on here so i'll post it here just now.

Thanks for sharing this.

It'll be strange (for me) to see Lothian/ LRT buses with four digit fleet numbers... just don't tell the "sixteen thousand pound" outrage brigade that there's a few million pounds worth of buses currently on reserve (plus already some buses in the fleet already with private plates)!

 

[overthewater]

Those buses on revere do have a purpose, including Highland showground route 98 and replacing and buses with defects from Vandals. I can't remember the last time I saw any damage on a LRT bus

 

[OmniCity999]

Those buses on revere do have a purpose, including Highland showground route 98 and replacing and buses with defects from Vandals. I can't remember the last time I saw any damage on a LRT bus

Some are withdrawn and for sale, only a few are actually reserve. The vast majority of the tridents (the tridents that are marked as RES) are up for sale and those that aren't will be soon after the service changes settle.