Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Tom B]

Airlink would seem to be the least beneficial service for a dual door vehicle, since all (or almost all) passengers either join or leave at the Airport. Even in days when LRT bought dual door vehicles previously, I believe that the airlinks were single doored? (such as the coach seated Olympians latterly used on the 15s).

 

[route101]

Airlink would seem to be the least beneficial service for a dual door vehicle, since all (or almost all) passengers either join or leave at the Airport. Even in days when LRT bought dual door vehicles previously, I believe that the airlinks were single doored? (such as the coach seated Olympians latterly used on the 15s).

Im sure its used as a normal bus by passenger until Maybury?

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Even in days when LRT bought dual door vehicles previously, I believe that the airlinks were single doored? (such as the coach seated Olympians latterly used on the 15s).

You are 100% as this was taken *not my pic* in 1995 https://www.flickr.com/photos/william-walker/33837956352/

 

[Jordan Adam]

Im sure its used as a normal bus by passenger until Maybury?

But the thing is you'd be unlikely to have high volumes of passengers getting both on and off at the same stop.

 

[OmniCity999]

But the thing is you'd be unlikely to have high volumes of passengers getting both on and off at the same stop.

And if you do its usually only at rush hour...

 

[Tom B]

But the thing is you'd be unlikely to have high volumes of passengers getting both on and off at the same stop.

Precisely. I recall occasionally using it (albeit 10 years ago) and at that time the number of commuters etc was minimal, I suppose most didnt know that ridacards were valid, or found the limited stops didn't suit their destination.

Dual doors are best used on a cross city route with heavy loading and lots of interchange in town, surely. 22s, 25s, 26s, 44s, X48s etc.

 

[Tom B]

The last couple of times I've been in Edinburgh, I've noticed lots of the new buses don't seem to have tramboard holders and I didn't see any at all in use. Have they been done away with? Typically they'd be used on express services, specials, and when there was a special event on and people not used to the city might be looking for the right bus.

 

[Darklord8899]

Yes, tramboards were done away with (in the 1990's? - I'm sure @OmniCity999, @Jordan Adam or @SpeedbirdA350 will correct me if I am wrong) .... the need for them became less and less with the advent of electronic, programmable destination screens.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was a certain member of the management at the time made it their mission to remove tramboards for good..... I still have an old "Limited Stop"/"Blackford" tramboard I found on Queensferry Road (guessing it had either been blown or bounced out of the external holder) during the days of the 40/41 (the 40 terminated at Blackford, which wasn't on any of the old destination roller binds)

 

[OmniCity999]

Yes, tramboards were done away with (in the 1990's? - I'm sure @OmniCity999, @Jordan Adam or @SpeedbirdA350 will correct me if I am wrong) .... the need for them became less and less with the advent of electronic, programmable destination screens.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was a certain member of the management at the time made it their mission to remove tramboards for good..... I still have an old "Limited Stop"/"Blackford" tramboard I found on Queensferry Road (guessing it had either been blown or bounced out of the external holder) during the days of the 40/41 (the 40 terminated at Blackford, which wasn't on any of the old destination roller binds)

Tramboards were in use until the current MD joined 3/4 years ago. Now consigned to the history books, along with Roller blind displays - although these are taking a long time to remove.

All of the Tramboards were sold off at open days. Some were burned, but very little.

 

[Darklord8899]

Tramboards were in use until the current MD joined 3/4 years ago. Now consigned to the history books, along with Roller blind displays - although these are taking a long time to remove.

All of the Tramboards were sold off at open days. Some were burned, but very little.

Thank you, figured you would know better than I did!

And wow! Hadn't realised it was as recent as a few years ago....
Maybe the last few years have been hard on me making think it felt like 20+ years

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Last time I seen a tramboard in use was on a 22 (or 26, I can't quite remember) in early 2017 when the 6 nations was on at Murrayfield but sadly they seem to have been forgotten about. I liked them personally as it actually speeded up the boarding of the bus a little more; so did the via points on the blinds but ever since Hall came in to the company, we have lost them, then the blinds went as OmniCity999 said but the biggest loss I think was the loss of the VIA points. Now you only see the final destination on the LCD screen, and that is all. Just need to look at LCB to see how it could be done. Now boarding takes longer as many tourists often ask if this bus goes to x y or z when before it would have those on the via points.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Last time I seen a tramboard in use was on a 22 (or 26, I can't quite remember) in early 2017 when the 6 nations was on at Murrayfield but sadly they seem to have been forgotten about. I liked them personally as it actually speeded up the boarding of the bus a little more; so did the via points on the blinds but ever since Hall came in to the company, we have lost them, then the blinds went as OmniCity999 said but the biggest loss I think was the loss of the VIA points. Now you only see the final destination on the LCD screen, and that is all. Just need to look at LCB to see how it could be done. Now boarding takes longer as many tourists often ask if this bus goes to x y or z when before it would have those on the via points.

The older displays however with the via points were a real mess! I don't get the obsession with trying to stick to displays that imitate the look of rollerblinds.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

What I am meaning is this https://www.flickr.com/photos/quomaneastlothian/44854847824/ vs this https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelst138/46641848085 as both are going to a destination but one has via points below. It's not like they could not do that on all services.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/quomaneastlothian/43737661281/ however I find even more helpful but Lothian have decided to go with single Hanover displays which means they could still do the above but fail to do so.

 

[takno]

Airlink would seem to be the least beneficial service for a dual door vehicle, since all (or almost all) passengers either join or leave at the Airport. Even in days when LRT bought dual door vehicles previously, I believe that the airlinks were single doored? (such as the coach seated Olympians latterly used on the 15s).

Last time I seen a tramboard in use was on a 22 (or 26, I can't quite remember) in early 2017 when the 6 nations was on at Murrayfield but sadly they seem to have been forgotten about. I liked them personally as it actually speeded up the boarding of the bus a little more; so did the via points on the blinds but ever since Hall came in to the company, we have lost them, then the blinds went as OmniCity999 said but the biggest loss I think was the loss of the VIA points. Now you only see the final destination on the LCD screen, and that is all. Just need to look at LCB to see how it could be done. Now boarding takes longer as many tourists often ask if this bus goes to x y or z when before it would have those on the via points.

I've never found the via points to be that useful - it's far too easy to see a destination the bus has already been to and assume that it has still to go there. As to the tourists, they usually seem to hop on and ask questions at length however much information is available to them.

Either way the biggest information loss for me was when they got rid of the brilliant easy-to-read diagrams of what bus was going where from the bus stops. Can't see any value in the information that's up there now at all.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I've never found the via points to be that useful - it's far too easy to see a destination the bus has already been to and assume that it has still to go there. As to the tourists, they usually seem to hop on and ask questions at length however much information is available to them.

All buses have a tracker which is GPS located, so could link the GPS with the via points on the front of the bus to omit those where it has passed ie it would say Princes St when in South Bridge but would not at Haymarket for example. The LCD boards are very versatile.

As for the diagrams, I have seen them at some stops but I tend not to keep a close eye on those as I know which bus I often need to get on.

 

[takno]

All buses have a tracker which is GPS located, so could link the GPS with the via points on the front of the bus to omit those where it has passed ie it would say Princes St when in South Bridge but would not at Haymarket for example. The LCD boards are very versatile.

This is a fair point. I was thinking more of the old roller-blind style tbh. Whatever they did I'm sure I'd still contrive to get on a 47 and end up having to walk down to the station from Nicholson Sq...

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

This is a fair point. I was thinking more of the old roller-blind style tbh. Whatever they did I'm sure I'd still contrive to get on a 47 and end up having to walk down to the station from Nicholson Sq...

So your 47 could say Via Nicholson/Bristo Square, Lothian Road, WGH and if you see it goes Bristo Square then you'd know it would not go North Bridge/Princes St. I think it's more confusing when buses change routes though even for us locals that are so used to getting on x bus to only find it no longer goes that route anymore lol. I think we have all done it at one point or another.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Potentially hundreds of Drivers, online route maps, potential travel shops...

The “via” point is personally an out of date theme on dest-screens, from personal experience many prefer the reassurance of asking a person i.e. the driver...

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

True, although that is if the driver knows the way lol. Not the first time I have been on a bus and driver has had to admit to passangers he made a mistake as he is on a different number than he usually is. Human mistakes.

 

[Darklord8899]

I'm sure the choice for single line display screens is done purely on monetary grounds..... i.e. significantly cheaper!!

.....also, doesn't matter how much or little information you display, you will still get people asking (obvious, stupid, obviously stupid??) Questions
Have been on a 300 going to airport which clearly has 'Airport 300' on the front, side, back but have had 3 or 4 people still ask if the bus goes to the airport (so much so, the driver actually got out and checked that all the displays were in fact showing Airport!)

 

[Tom B]

I do get caught out occasionally, since most of my knowledge about which bus to catch in Edinburgh is over 8 years old!

I also get confused by the new ticket machines where the ticket comes out of the machine, rather than the printer behind the driver.

Thanks for the comments re tram boards. As to the LED screens, I don't like them personally, but as said up thread it is a shame that they weren't configured a little better, with the intermediates. Equally, the destination blinds made it very clear if a bus was only a part route, with the bright pink front.

 

[Jordan Adam]

What I am meaning is this https://www.flickr.com/photos/quomaneastlothian/44854847824/ vs this https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelst138/46641848085 as both are going to a destination but one has via points below. It's not like they could not do that on all services.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/quomaneastlothian/43737661281/ however I find even more helpful but Lothian have decided to go with single Hanover displays which means they could still do the above but fail to do so.

I find the display there on 208 there actually really messy. Out of the 3 574 is easily by far the best laid out.

 

[oldman]

The problem with the vias on the old blinds was that half the time they were in the wrong order, which continued even with electronic displays.

The quality of information on the bus stops is really poor, especially in the city centre. There should be a network diagram at each stop in Princes Street, with an indication of which routes stop where. I guess there is money for re-repainting buses but not for information.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The problem with the vias on the old blinds was that half the time they were in the wrong order, which continued even with electronic displays.

The quality of information on the bus stops is really poor, especially in the city centre. There should be a network diagram at each stop in Princes Street, with an indication of which routes stop where. I guess there is money for re-repainting buses but not for information.

That reminds me, the electronic boards at the stops in Edinburgh have always seemed dated to me compared with the much more modern looking boards in Aberdeen(Shire).

If they just programmed the displays the way they have with LCB it would be a massive improvement.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

That reminds me, the electronic boards at the stops in Edinburgh have always seemed dated to me compared with the much more modern looking boards in Aberdeen(Shire).

Bus tracker screens at stops in the city are operated by the council, not LB but when I was talking with them about putting more in as a good number of stops do not have them, they said that they wont be replacing nor instaling new ones due to the price of them. I suggested they look at a LED screen for future operations as they are far cheaper to replace/repair than the current ones.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Bus tracker screens at stops in the city are operated by the council, not LB but when I was talking with them about putting more in as a good number of stops do not have them, they said that they wont be replacing nor instaling new ones due to the price of them. I suggested they look at a LED screen for future operations as they are far cheaper to replace/repair than the current ones.

I know, likewise the ones up here are council operated. To be honest i'm surprised they still make the ones in Edinburgh given how ancient they appear! The screens used in Aberdeen are actually LCD so you have much more versatility, not to mention they're easier to read.

 

[90019]

The trackers are pretty old now, I don't think there's been any new installations since around 2010.
I believe the council's reasoning is that most people have smartphones so can get live times using bus tracker apps - at least that's what I was told at the time.

 

[OmniCity999]

The trackers are pretty old now, I don't think there's been any new installations since around 2010.
I believe the council's reasoning is that most people have smartphones so can get live times using bus tracker apps - at least that's what I was told at the time.

Indeed. Key bus stops used by the elderly and less abled have them fitted and that meets the requirements. Every where else is able to be tracked using a mobile device. Of course, the vast majority of out of town bus stops also have timetables too - so the need for a tracker is negated as most bus services are on time before they reach town.

 

[OmniCity999]

Indeed. Key bus stops used by the elderly and less abled have them fitted and that meets the requirements. Every where else is able to be tracked using a mobile device. Of course, the vast majority of out of town bus stops also have timetables too - so the need for a tracker is negated as most bus services are on time before they reach town.

If Lothian or any other operator wanted more trackers fitted they could buy them through the council and have them fitter but it isnt overly required.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The trackers are pretty old now, I don't think there's been any new installations since around 2010.
I believe the council's reasoning is that most people have smartphones so can get live times using bus tracker apps - at least that's what I was told at the time.

While more people will use the mobile app, some disabled, elderly and poorer people can't. Also you have tourists and those who have forgotten their phones or have ran out of power.