Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[takno]

The bus lane times are fine. The problem is that across most of the city very little is done to enforce the loading and parking bays within the bus lanes, so there are vehicles parked in them during the evening rush almost every day.

Some of the bus lanes that were previously all-day are a bit of a pain. 4pm is a pretty late start time for evening peak restrictions - start it at 2.30 and you can start towing stuff out of loading bays by 3. Camera-enforced 50 quid fines, rising to 150 if you actually delay a bus would get minds focused.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Longstone's getting the 23, apparently confirmed in staff newsletter. There was also a rumour on another forum that Longstone's percentage of the 44 was going to Central. Which i dont believe because that would surely cause dead mileage for late finishes in Balerno. I believe the split was even in place when 726-750 were new - not 100% sure.

It does look like the Longstone allocation of the 44 has been increased. Whilst there is no change at night and on Sundays it looks like a near 75/25 split with Marine during weekdays.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Bus 1005 operating on service 14 tonight.

 

[OmniCity999]

Bus 1005 operating on service 14 tonight.

It's 321 (or at least it was yesterday...)- the tracking systems are having issues at the moment.

The bus that will be 1005 isnt even back in the country yet.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Ah I was surprised when I saw that. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[alphabravo43]

http://classifieds.busandcoachbuyer.com/classified/optare-solo-sr/
Looks like the Solo's are getting sold off

 

[Observer]

Been advertised for a few weeks.

Shame they have the MAN engines though, not very reliable compared to the Cummins and Mercedes versions. It is possible to convert them to use a Cummins engine though but obviously that's more money to spend.

 

[Bungle965]

http://classifieds.busandcoachbuyer.com/classified/optare-solo-sr/
Looks like the Solo's are getting sold off

One of the rare MAN engined ones also.
Sam

 

[alexf380]

Since the 39 came off there's only been a need for 2 out on weekdays and none at weekends so makes sense to sell them considering how non standard they are in the fleet.

 

[OmniCity999]

Lothian Group Fleetlist 31/03/2018

List includes Lothian Buses, East Coast Buses, Edinburgh Bus Tours, Lothian Country, Edinburgh Trams, Lothian Training School, Lothian Heritage and Lothian Coaches (initial info)

List also includes depot allocations and a rough weekday PVR.

Suggestions of updates always welcome

Thanks for viewing
Rob

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Th

Lothian Group Fleetlist 31/03/2018

List includes Lothian Buses, East Coast Buses, Edinburgh Bus Tours, Lothian Country, Edinburgh Trams, Lothian Training School, Lothian Heritage and Lothian Coaches (initial info)

List also includes depot allocations and a rough weekday PVR.

Suggestions of updates always welcome

Thanks for viewing
Rob

Thanks for this.

Regarding buses 201-215. Do we know why they were converted from Hybrid and why some are now in reserve? I had noticed less of them running on service 10 lately so wonder if Lothian are planning on selling these vehicles.

 

[OmniCity999]

Th

Thanks for this.

Regarding buses 201-215. Do we know why they were converted from Hybrid and why some are now in reserve? I had noticed less of them running on service 10 lately so wonder if Lothian are planning on selling these vehicles.

The hybrid system was starting to fail on them and new batteries would cost £60,000 per bus. A conversion was £10,000. The decision was made pretty quickly as to what was going to happen.

Members of that batch are in reserve as they are awaiting conversion, or they arent being used for various reasons. They'll be gone sooner than later.

Lothians 5 X 14m Plaxton Panther III / Volvo B11R have been sighted outside Plaxton, Scarborough. They are all over metallic black with 2” Gold and 2" white stripes along the lower panels all round. Chrome window, body and wheel trims, gold hubs. These are due soon.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Thanks as ever. I had wondered why these buses were not seen much these days.

 

[Scotrail88]

Have we had any confirmation on what the coaches will be working??

 

[OmniCity999]

Have we had any confirmation on what the coaches will be working??

Lothian haven't publicly launched the subsidiary or vehicles.

We found out at Doors Open Day that they were considering them, then a dormant company changed its name from Edinburgh Bus and Coach to Lothian Coaches and the rumour mill begun...

Cut to last week and a friend of mine found 4 vehicles in all over black at Plaxton, Scarborough with an additional vehicle with livery added and Lothian Coaches legals. I'm not permitted to share an image.

The coaches are semi-service spec as they have screens fitted however, its a bit late in the coaching season for it to be holidays etc. However Lothian Coaches must have a contract lined up or they wouldn't have bought them.

It is confirmed however, that they wont be for any existing services as they are owned and licensed to Lothian Coaches ltd. They may well be for a new service, my personal opinion is they will be used on a new city connecting service run solely by them and not a franchise, like CityLink or some Stagecoach services are. My thought behind this being the livery that is applied.

They may just be for private hires, holidays and rail replacement etc, we shall need to wait and see. The vehicle parked outside Plaxton had a web address, but it was partially covered so it isn't possible to make it out.

Would be nice to see an Edinburgh-Stirling or similar service. A lot of people thought they'd be used on an Edinburgh to Glasgow service in competition with the 900, but i highly doubt that. There was also talk of them being for an Edinburgh to London service, but that too is doubtful.

Registrations for these vehicles are available in the above fleetlist.

 

[GusB]

They may just be for private hires, holidays and rail replacement etc, we shall need to wait and see. The vehicle parked outside Plaxton had a web address, but it was partially covered so it isn't possible to make it out.

Interesting. I've looked up a couple of domains - lothiancoaches.com and lothiancoaches.co.uk both go to Forth Boat Tours. lothian-coaches.com and lothian-coaches.co.uk both direct to some kind of holding page, and the latter of these two domains was registered by Lothian Buses in July 2017.

 

[90019]

I had noticed less of them running on service 10 lately so wonder if Lothian are planning on selling these vehicles.

I hope so.

The conversions are awful. They have no power so it's almost impossible to keep them on time, and the brakes are like an on/off switch.

 

[OmniCity999]

Lothian 1001 (LXZ 5383, ex BG61 SXJ) Now in service on service 41.

 

[alexf380]

Has it been fitted with a tracker? Can't find it on the app or on the online transport visualiser.

 

[OmniCity999]

Has it been fitted with a tracker? Can't find it on the app or on the online transport visualiser.

Both 1001 (LXZ 5383) / 1002 (LXZ 5384) are in service and have trackers fitted. Use visualedinburgh.co.uk - theres an issue with lvf.io . 1001 was shown on service 41 and 1002 was seen on X44E. 1001 was removed from service 40 minutes into its first shift due to a cash vault issue. These buses werent fitted with vaults in London.

 

[Graham Smith]

Do we know if Lothian have any new diesel single decks on order?

 

[OmniCity999]

Do we know if Lothian have any new diesel single decks on order?

There's a rumour of 15 X Eclipse 4 bodied B8RLE's but nothing confirmed. They need something to replace the solo's first! Looks like it'll be Steetlites as Lothian are keen to stick to Wright / Volvo.

Confirmed arrivals this year are:

50 X Gemini 2 (10.4) bodied Volvo B9TL's (Ex London Refurbs) 2 already in service. 48 still at Wright Bus
At least 25 X Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TL's
20 X Gemini 3 bodied B5LH's (Hybirds)
5 X Plaxton Panther III bodied Volvo B11R's (for Lothian Coaches)

 

[90019]

Lothian 1001 (LXZ 5383, ex BG61 SXJ) Now in service on service 41.

1002 can be found on the 16 today.

 

[overthewater]

With all these new contracts, and new coaching operation being set up, it pretty clear the company is on a cash grab to generate more money. Of course we all know where the spare cash is going.... All hail the trams... When is St James centre going to cough up the money to extend it to the bottom of leith road.

I still believe there plenty of scope of new services around City of Edinburgh, even after all the cuts which have gone unnoticed by many. To be fair most of them have been in the former First bus areas.

Southern Orbit route has never gotten off the ground which is a shame, but I think Lothian are missing a trick with the 200. There is alot of traffic come for M8/A8 going up Maybury Road - Queensferry road - Telford road and that where a 3 way split happens with stuff going to Newhaven, Granton and leith docks. Maybe making it every 15mins and running via Park n Ride might help?

 

[OmniCity999]

With all these new contracts, and new coaching operation being set up, it pretty clear the company is on a cash grab to generate more money. Of course we all know where the spare cash is going.... All hail the trams... When is St James centre going to cough up the money to extend it to the bottom of leith road.

I still believe there plenty of scope of new services around City of Edinburgh, even after all the cuts which have gone unnoticed by many. To be fair most of them have been in the former First bus areas.

Southern Orbit route has never gotten off the ground which is a shame, but I think Lothian are missing a trick with the 200. There is alot of traffic come for M8/A8 going up Maybury Road - Queensferry road - Telford road and that where a 3 way split happens with stuff going to Newhaven, Granton and leith docks. Maybe making it every 15mins and running via Park n Ride might help?

The current MD seems to be predominantly a "bus man" then (not than) a business man, running the company with a lot of nostalgia and care for the job - this can be seen with the creation of East Coast Buses, the saving of the 43, experimenting with routes and bringing back the private hire and coaching subsiduries of the company. The company is going to become pretty lucrative in the next few years. It's future must be controlled very carefully or the council may think of selling again. I believe he's not a massive fan of Lothian funding the tram project - but can't imagine he has much choice in the matter. He seems to be doing a very good job.

Previous MD was very much a businessman. Running the company predominantly for profit and saving money where possible, not being adventurous with changes and when he was, it never really worked. The new MD's approach to certain things seems to be working slowly but surely.

The 200 is a great wee service and it seems to be doing very well. I do feel it should go via the Park and Ride, it would be great if there were a link to Davidsons Mains. I dont think the frequency needs changing, being a regular user of the service, it seems to hold numbers pretty well, with no real need for a boast. I remember being surprised when it was announced it were to go double deck - i didnt feel it warranted the upgrade, but it seems to have been a case of "if you build it, they will come" and is doing very well.

 

[OmniCity999]

Lothian Group Fleetlist 07/04/2018

Vehicle Euro status and gearbox type included.

List includes Lothian Buses, East Coast Buses, Edinburgh Bus Tours, Lothian Country, Edinburgh Trams, Lothian Training School, Lothian Heritage and Lothian Coaches (initial info)

List also includes depot allocations and a rough weekday PVR.

Suggestions of updates always welcome

Thanks for viewing
Rob

 

[overthewater]

The current MD seems to be predominantly a "bus man" then (not than) a business man, running the company with a lot of nostalgia and care for the job - this can be seen with the creation of East Coast Buses, the saving of the 43, experimenting with routes and bringing back the private hire and coaching subsiduries of the company. The company is going to become pretty lucrative in the next few years. It's future must be controlled very carefully or the council may think of selling again. I believe he's not a massive fan of Lothian funding the tram project - but can't imagine he has much choice in the matter. He seems to be doing a very good job.

Previous MD was very much a businessman. Running the company predominantly for profit and saving money where possible, not being adventurous with changes and when he was, it never really worked. The new MD's approach to certain things seems to be working slowly but surely.

The 200 is a great wee service and it seems to be doing very well. I do feel it should go via the Park and Ride, it would be great if there were a link to Davidsons Mains. I dont think the frequency needs changing, being a regular user of the service, it seems to hold numbers pretty well, with no real need for a boast. I remember being surprised when it was announced it were to go double deck - i didnt feel it warranted the upgrade, but it seems to have been a case of "if you build it, they will come" and is doing very well.

I'll give it you, the current MD does seem to be a bus man. However still has an eye to cut service patterns but thankful still maintain decent level of service. I think if there could, make the 200 upto every 15mins 6am - 9am and again 15pm - 18pm, but from Newhaven - airport only, It going to be a real struggle to convince car driver to switch unless that service is faster. Only problem with DM is the bad ques trying to get back on to Queensferry road at peak times.

You have to wonder if he will go after Kirkilston shortly? basically make no63 every half hour and extend it to the city, especially if that new motorway junction opens, which might convince First to direct service down the M9 to speed them up. First still has another a few years of housing money to keep the 38 every 15 mins, and the housing is nowhere near finished yet. Hint...

 

[OmniCity999]

I'll give it you, the current MD does seem to be a bus man. However still has an eye to cut service patterns but thankful still maintain decent level of service. I think if there could, make the 200 upto every 15mins 6am - 9am and again 15pm - 18pm, but from Newhaven - airport only, It going to be a real struggle to convince car driver to switch unless that service is faster. Only problem with DM is the bad ques trying to get back on to Queensferry road at peak times.

You have to wonder if he will go after Kirkilston shortly? basically make no63 every half hour and extend it to the city, especially if that new motorway junction opens, which might convince First to direct service down the M9 to speed them up. First still has another a few years of housing money to keep the 38 every 15 mins, and the housing is nowhere near finished yet. Hint...

Lothian wont touch West Lothian just now. First seem to be doing OK and have plans to invest more. But never say never!

When the coaches arrive and with a few tweaks to services and service patterns, Lothian will become a money printing machine. The really need to watch about making it too lucrative, because the council wont think twice - it will be gone and so will our awesome service - even with political party changes it could be gone. We really need to watch it.

 

[takno]

Lothian wont touch West Lothian just now. First seem to be doing OK and have plans to invest more. But never say never!

When the coaches arrive and with a few tweaks to services and service patterns, Lothian will become a money printing machine. The really need to watch about making it too lucrative, because the council wont think twice - it will be gone and so will our awesome service - even with political party changes it could be gone. We really need to watch it.

I'm not seeing that as particularly likely. It was often implied that the Labour group wanted to do in spite of it being obvious political suicide, since the councillors wouldn't have a future in the party let alone with the electorate. Any changes would make it *more* likely although still political suicide. There are probably a few council officers kicking around who would love to mess Lothian Buses up, but there isn't any way they could make it happen.

I don't think it makes a lot of business sense either. Most of the likely purchasers are painfully aware of how many times in the past they've taken successful independent companies and crushed the value out of them in a matter of months, and have bus operations generally in decline. What they'd be willing to pay is probably significantly less than the council can milk out of the operation as it stands.

 

[backontrack]

One of the problems with East Coast Buses is the issue of fare zones. A ticket from Dirleton to North Berwick, a seven-minute drive, costs £2.70 for an adult. If two adults are travelling together, that becomes £5.40.