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Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

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oldman

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I had a neighbour recently encouraging me to support a 20 limit on all city roads - fortunately there are still a lot of 30s. The point I made was that private motorists would still go a bit over the limit with impunity (and little harm) but buses will be expected to comply and if some vigilante reports a driver for doing 23 the company has to take it seriously. I asked the neighbour when he was last on a bus - got the usual 'I would if the service was better'.

The same is likely to apply with the 30/40 limits. 44s crawling down the very wide Lanark Road, cancelling out any benefit of the stop-reduction programme, cars and vans overtaking. Making bus travel even less attractive is not a green thing to do.
 

ScotRail158725

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401 has had its LEDs changes again, now the new hannover LED screens that all the new builds and B7/B9 refits have
 

etetetetet

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401 has had its LEDs changes again, now the new hannover LED screens that all the new builds and B7/B9 refits have

The ones with the larger font? Because if that's the case then thank goodness, I must admit I'm not particularly fond of the older ones
 

Jordan Adam

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The lower speed limits may actually help with congestion. However over longer distances they could impact negatively on journey times.
 

ScotRail158725

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CN04NRJ

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so basically they’re going out their way to lose even more. also now if your someone in kingsknowe area you’ll no longer be able to use a dayticket. the 63 is understandable but the 20 just seems ridiculous to me

The article shows they did bid for the 20 but it was awarded to First. Can't see how that's any benefit for the people who use it but there we go..
 

ScotRail158725

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The article shows they did bid for the 20 but it was awarded to First. Can't see how that's any benefit for the people who use it but there we go..
i can see why the 63 went to first even if lothian had of bidded for it but the 20 just confuses me
 

DunsBus

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Sour grapes from councillors just because First, the bus company they love to hate, has won the 20 and 63 tenders rather than LB.

These councillors have no grasp at all of how bus route tendering works. Operators can chose whether or not to bid for a contract (as has happened here) and by law councils have to accept the lowest tenders. It just so happens that this time First bid the lowest. If the council had accepted the LB tenders, despite them not being the lowest, it would then have been accused of favouritism.
 

oldman

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The council report is here

The 20 is going via the P&R and the 63 to Balerno. First are also taking the 68 from whoever does it now. ECL are keeping the 13.

By way of Community Benefits achieved in respect of these contracts,First Scotland East Ltd have committed to providing educational bus tours for primary and secondary pupils or voluntary groups on their Bright Bus Tours of Historic Edinburgh and the provision of a bus as a mobile community centre outreach project, whilstEdinburgh Coach Lines Ltd have committed to providing local community sponsorship

It will eliminate the fares anomaly of Lothian operating in LCB territory at their city fare.
 

Jordan Adam

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The council report is here

The 20 is going via the P&R and the 63 to Balerno. First are also taking the 68 from whoever does it now. ECL are keeping the 13.



It will eliminate the fares anomaly of Lothian operating in LCB territory at their city fare.

Perhaps off topic for here but given that the 20 is going via the P&R i wouldn't be shocked if the X24/X25/X38 get rerouted.
 

ejstubbs

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@Driver362I was also thinking about LCB services using West Approach Road, another 40 down 30 road.... not gonna help your schedules any...

The 40mph limit on the Western Approach Road between Murrayfield and Fountainpark is about 1 mile long. The difference in journey time between 30mph and 40mph for that distance is around 30 seconds - but since it's impossible to magically accelerate up to 40mph and back to 30mph instantaneously, in practical terms it's rather less than that. You can lose more time than that having to stop for a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing.
 

Auld reekie

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The council report is here

The 20 is going via the P&R and the 63 to Balerno. First are also taking the 68 from whoever does it now. ECL are keeping the 13.



It will eliminate the fares anomaly of Lothian operating in LCB territory at their city fare.
That’s great news about the No 63 going to Balerno.
 

oldman

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Perhaps off topic for here but given that the 20 is going via the P&R i wouldn't be shocked if the X24/X25/X38 get rerouted.

Possibly, but the council asked for the diversion for connections with the trams, and you can always change buses at Ratho Station. The number of people using the 20 is not great, which is why it costs £0.5m per year in subsidy.

Unless First are hoping to take P&R business off the trams.
 

Driver362

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@Driver362

I was also thinking about LCB services using West Approach Road, another 40 down 30 road.... not gonna help your schedules any...
No it won't everything that goes A89 as far as I know is timed @50 but tbh most of ours is so tight anyway it don't take much to have you behind the X18 is a case in point, most of the time I check when I'm due to leave the very rarely look at avl /time board as you will most likely be late after a few stops, as I've said before mostly requires a style I can't be bothered with anymore I. E flat out!
 

Jordan Adam

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Possibly, but the council asked for the diversion for connections with the trams, and you can always change buses at Ratho Station. The number of people using the 20 is not great, which is why it costs £0.5m per year in subsidy.

Unless First are hoping to take P&R business off the trams.

That is true, however the idea of the X24/X25/X38 being rerouted and possibly tapping in to a new market (there's no real bus equivalent atm) has been floated before and with them winning the 20 it would make sense. I personally have always found the tram to be far too slow to Ingliston/Edinburgh Airport when compared to the bus.

Anytime i've needed to go to Royal Highland Centre i either just get the 100 and walk, or get the 100 to the Airport and nip in a taxi if the weather is poor.
 

TheEastCoaster

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I’m intrigued to see how this will turn out, I used to take the 20 quite a lot between Chesser and Sighthill and the loading were pretty great, can’t speak for the Ratho end though but since it’s the only bus link (except the 40) i’d Imagine it’s well used

Good news about the 63 extending to Balerno though! and the 20 via the Park and Ride is a sensible move, seems daft Lothian never taped that market more

Although it was a missed opportunity to move the 20/63 to LCB, that way the daytickets within areas like Balerno and Kingsknowe stay the same but with the LothianWest ticket options to connect to the X27/X28 at Sighthill or the X17/X18/X38 at Newbridge-Gogarburn.

I can imagine some Ratho residents will be upset their only Lothian bus is getting replaced
 

Darklord8899

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back full circle.... 20 going to first, back to the days of the SMT/Eastern Scottish 37 to Ratho .....

I wouldn't be surprised if LCB puts in for both at next tender renewal..... :lol::p
 

A330Alex

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Disappointing Lothian won't continue running the 63, handy connection to the tram/Gyle for Heriot-Watt students. If they can, I wouldn't be surprised if First cut out Riccarton and purely served the P&R on the way to Balerno.
 

Acfb

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I had a neighbour recently encouraging me to support a 20 limit on all city roads - fortunately there are still a lot of 30s. The point I made was that private motorists would still go a bit over the limit with impunity (and little harm) but buses will be expected to comply and if some vigilante reports a driver for doing 23 the company has to take it seriously. I asked the neighbour when he was last on a bus - got the usual 'I would if the service was better'.

The same is likely to apply with the 30/40 limits. 44s crawling down the very wide Lanark Road, cancelling out any benefit of the stop-reduction programme, cars and vans overtaking. Making bus travel even less attractive is not a green thing to do.

The Comiston Road reduction is very sensible to make it safer for people crossing the road at Buckstone etc.

I do agree that the reduction of 30 to 20mph on main roads were/are daft though.
 

overthewater

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Disappointing Lothian won't continue running the 63, handy connection to the tram/Gyle for Heriot-Watt students. If they can, I wouldn't be surprised if First cut out Riccarton and purely served the P&R on the way to Balerno.

Its a council contract, thus if it does it up to the council not first. It also means its back to hourly service.
 

Auld reekie

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Disappointing Lothian won't continue running the 63, handy connection to the tram/Gyle for Heriot-Watt students. If they can, I wouldn't be surprised if First cut out Riccarton and purely served the P&R on the way to Balerno.
Is there a starting date for the No63?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Isn’t the whole point of the 20 Ratho-Edinburgh Park subsidy to connect with the tram to provide a city link? I wonder if the council have specified some form of integrated fare in that case. If not then I think Ratho pax that were heading to city may just opt to drive to Ingliston instead...

Ultimately the 20 and 63 will lose pax numbers because Ridacards/DayTickets can’t be used anymore. There’s no longer the integration that Lothian offered.

The 63 was awful when EMH had it pre 2014, since Lothian took it over it has become a success (offers a city wide network, increased frequency etc). It certainly won’t be as bad as when EMH had it (running rust buckets around the place) but it will carry enough pax to keep it going.

Both the 20 and the 63’s main market is to get folk to the Gyle, and that’s what keeps it going. First will do that and that’s all they need to do.

I can fully understand why the locals aren’t happy but it’s just the way tendering works, yet again the Evening News article is extremely misleading (what a surprise), suggesting that they’ve given up on both which isn’t true. They gave up on the 20 but even if they had bidded I reckon First would have won anyway, the 63 they lost - hard lines, nobody can complain about it.

I guess because it will free up 10 buses we will see the remaining 04 plates go. For Lothian to have run the 63 to Balerno it would have needed 4 or buses Every 40 mins or 3 buses at every hour. Does someone know what other changes there will be? Other than those previously mentioned.

I’m assuming First will have the buses starting from the SQ end? Something that probably is better
 
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