Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Lothian285]

181 was sent straight for scrap? that was unexpected

181 was sitting at Seafield last time I was there (before the lockdown), don't know if it's still there but it definitely wasn't sent straight for scrap.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I maybe getting it confused with 133, which I know was burned badly in Gorgie. I know one of them was scrapped. If 181 was still at Seafield then it will be 133, not 181. Sorry for the confusion. I just recall both having bad fires

 

[OmniCity999]

181 may return.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Also 181, if I recall it was burnt out in Livi on day 1 I think of service, and was sent for scrap (those buses could also be placed in the "gone" section as they left the company with notes section saying what their fate was)

It was actually burnt on Day 3.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I knew it was within the first few, thanks for clarification.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

You think since the network is constantly being monitored during this time ECB May consider extending the 124 to West Granton to link the Western General with Portobello, Prestonpans and beyond

 

[scotrail158713]

You think since the network is constantly being monitored during this time ECB May consider extending the 124 to West Granton to link the Western General with Portobello, Prestonpans and beyond

Yep, I’d agree. I wouldn’t have initially suggested it, but since the 106 is also going there it seems odd that the 124 isn’t.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Yep, I’d agree. I wouldn’t have initially suggested it, but since the 106 is also going there it seems odd that the 124 isn’t.

Depending on the turnaround time at Fountainbridge, running to Granton instead maybe requires another bus on that route? In which case, is it busy enough to justify that?

 

[Edirim]

No extra bus required if 124 extended down to West Granton as 35 mins given at Fountainbridge with West End-Granton being 24 min round trip.

 

[Bus9120UK]

410 & 411 both don't have the new dest style (410 from me seeing it myself, 411 from a picture taken today)

 

[ScotRail158725]

410 & 411 both don't have the new dest style (410 from me seeing it myself, 411 from a picture taken today)

theres a couple of the 41* and 42* still with the old font, same with some of 552-570 but believe about half at least have been changed

 

[Siemens Trains]

What I do wonder is will the 19 show ‘West End’ as it’s destination from Granton

The citybound 19 I saw the other day displayed Waverley as its destination.

 

[DunsBus]

The citybound 19 I saw the other day displayed Waverley as its destination.

The 19 changes to a 4 at Waverley, then continues to Asda. Returning from Asda, it changes back to a 19 at Leith Street.

Incidentally, this is the first time that the 19 has operated on a working day basis since 1987. Back then it was the 19/39 circle and for the first three months of deregulation (26/10/1986 to 25/1/1987) it ran Mondays to Saturdays until 7pm with no service on Sundays, other than some early Sunday morning journeys on the 19 run under contract to the council.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Surprisingly, this isnt the main reason why this has happened.

Buses are being rotated within the fleet. So those that have been operating for the last 2 weeks are being rotated with those that havent been used at Newbridge and Longstone.

Do you know if there will be another rotation coming up soon, and if so, what might be swapped around?

 

[scotrail158713]

Incidentally, this is the first time that the 19 has operated on a working day basis since 1987. Back then it was the 19/39 circle and for the first three months of deregulation (26/10/1986 to 25/1/1987) it ran Mondays to Saturdays until 7pm with no service on Sundays, other than some early Sunday morning journeys on the 19 run under contract to the council.

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by “a working day basis”? Because I’m reading what you’ve said and thinking that the 19 has been running for many years now, so what I thought you were saying isn’t what you were actually saying.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It looks like 1057 is starting to look a little unloved. https://www.flickr.com/photos/71032857@N00/49813577851/in/datetaken/ (not my pic although I suspect it's CN04NRJs?) but around the dest screen it looks like it's starting to peel away. Or is that just the light? For a 2 year old vehicle, it is suprising if it's not the light.

 

[buslad1988]

It looks like 1057 is starting to look a little unloved. https://www.flickr.com/photos/71032857@N00/49813577851/in/datetaken/ (not my pic although I suspect it's CN04NRJs?) but around the dest screen it looks like it's starting to peel away. Or is that just the light? For a 2 year old vehicle, it is suprising if it's not the light.

Probably because of the amount of water that leaks into them. Rubbish build quality. Had many a shower in the cab of these on a wet day if you hit certain corners/roundabouts at a particular angle!

 

[Siemens Trains]

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by “a working day basis”? Because I’m reading what you’ve said and thinking that the 19 has been running for many years now, so what I thought you were saying isn’t what you were actually saying.

In days of yore LRT timetables would summarise a particular service as operating at 'peak times', the 'working day' or 'full day'. A working day basis would mean yo'd know at a glance it was relevant for Monday to Saturday daytime, but not the evenings or Sundays.
However in this case apparently there used to be a few 19/39 Sunday journeys under a council contract, so maybe not an exact match.
At the moment the 19 operates fom 6am to 9pm Monday to Saturday in its emergency timetable, so that might fall into the category previously classed as a 'working day' service.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Probably because of the amount of water that leaks into them. Rubbish build quality. Had many a shower in the cab of these on a wet day if you hit certain corners/roundabouts at a particular angle!

Yeah, thankfully Lothian never ordered too many of those 2018 B5TLs (20 in total, 8 ECB 12 LB?). They were the straw that broke the camels back though. Not sure I'd enjoy driving one of those in a rainy day though if what you describe is typical of them.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Yeah, thankfully Lothian never ordered too many of those 2018 B5TLs (20 in total, 8 ECB 12 LB?). They were the straw that broke the camels back though. Not sure I'd enjoy driving one of those in a rainy day though if what you describe is typical of them.

Are the 2018 buses not exactly the same as the 2017 Longstone, Zoo and ex-Airlink B5s?

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Are the 2018 buses not exactly the same as the 2017 Longstone, Zoo and ex-Airlink B5s?

Build quality is better on the 2015-2016 B5s. However, they are the same aside from that.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Build quality is better on the 2015-2016 B5s. However, they are the same aside from that.

Agree, the build quality on the 18 plates specifically is shockingly poor, even when new they were some of the worst build buses i have ever been on.

 

[buslad1988]

Are the 2018 buses not exactly the same as the 2017 Longstone, Zoo and ex-Airlink B5s?

The same to look at yes; but build quality wise no. Much worse!

Although saying that I’ve heard many stories about the zoo buses (26’s) cab doors rattling so much that screws come loose and the drivers can’t get out on changeovers! Have to call for an engineer to let them out so wrightbus build quality certainly deteriorating for some time... no surprise they dropped them.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The same to look at yes; but build quality wise no. Much worse!

Although saying that I’ve heard many stories about the zoo buses (26’s) cab doors rattling so much that screws come loose and the drivers can’t get out on changeovers! Have to call for an engineer to let them out so wrightbus build quality certainly deteriorating for some time... no surprise they dropped them.

This is a common issue on some Streetdecks with Diamond and First Leeds too...

 

[scotrail158713]

In days of yore LRT timetables would summarise a particular service as operating at 'peak times', the 'working day' or 'full day'. A working day basis would mean yo'd know at a glance it was relevant for Monday to Saturday daytime, but not the evenings or Sundays.
However in this case apparently there used to be a few 19/39 Sunday journeys under a council contract, so maybe not an exact match.
At the moment the 19 operates fom 6am to 9pm Monday to Saturday in its emergency timetable, so that might fall into the category previously classed as a 'working day' service.

Ahh. I get you - thanks.

 

[90019]

Agree, the build quality on the 18 plates specifically is shockingly poor, even when new they were some of the worst build buses i have ever been on.

The build quality fell off a cliff during 2017, but it's most noticeable on those 18 plate buses - even when brand new they felt like they were falling to bits. The glass starting to delaminate on some of them, especially around the screens, within a few months didn't come as much of a surprise.

During the summer, you also get cooked in the cab, because there's some vents on the floor behind the pedals that blow hot air permanently and can't be turned off or blocked in any way.


Even the worst buses will usually have at least some redeeming features, but 1051-1062 have none at all, in my opinion.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The build quality fell off a cliff during 2017, but it's most noticeable on those 18 plate buses - even when brand new they felt like they were falling to bits. The glass starting to delaminate on some of them, especially around the screens, within a few months didn't come as much of a surprise.

During the summer, you also get cooked in the cab, because there's some vents on the floor behind the pedals that blow hot air permanently and can't be turned off or blocked in any way.


Even the worst buses will usually have at least some redeeming features, but 1051-1062 have none at all, in my opinion.

Agree, i first caught them in July 2018 and was shocked at how poor they were. The whole front end of the lower deck rattled and shook about, the upper deck floor would bend, flex and creek as people walked along it (this also being visible from the lower deck), and much of the interior fittings just felt really nasty, cheap and poorly fitted, specifically the housing around the corner windows on the upper deck which i can only likely to Styrofoam!

I'm not a huge fan of the B5TL/Gemini 3 anyway as i believe it was a mistake for Volvo to put such a small under powered engine in a decker (given the endless engine troubles operators have had with them and the massive drop in sales post 2017 it would seem my thoughts were right), while the Wright bodywork generally these days is flimsy, stylistically not that attractive and i also dislike the shallower upper deck windows which can make the bus feel quite dark and stuffy. However the 18 plates make all other B5TLs look like luxury! Hopefully one day Volvo will bring out a B8TL chassis to replace the B5TL, i can't see why they couldn't, although there is the B8L that chassis isn't suitable for a 2 axle decker.

I've not been on 20001-20008 at ECB, are they any better? I'd assume not given they're pretty much from the same batch.

 

[CM]

Agree, i first caught them in July 2018 and was shocked at how poor they were. The whole front end of the lower deck rattled and shook about, the upper deck floor would bend, flex and creek as people walked along it (this also being visible from the lower deck), and much of the interior fittings just felt really nasty, cheap and poorly fitted, specifically the housing around the corner windows on the upper deck which i can only likely to Styrofoam!

I'm not a huge fan of the B5TL/Gemini 3 anyway as i believe it was a mistake for Volvo to put such a small under powered engine in a decker (given the endless engine troubles operators have had with them and the massive drop in sales post 2017 it would seem my thoughts were right), while the Wright bodywork generally these days is flimsy, stylistically not that attractive and i also dislike the shallower upper deck windows which can make the bus feel quite dark and stuffy. However the 18 plates make all other B5TLs look like luxury! Hopefully one day Volvo will bring out a B8TL chassis to replace the B5TL, i can't see why they couldn't, although there is the B8L that chassis isn't suitable for a 2 axle decker.

I've not been on 20001-20008 at ECB, are they any better? I'd assume not given they're pretty much from the same batch.

IIRC I read somewhere that Volvo had actually intended on replacing the B9TL with a B8TL but then changed it to the B5TL due to pressure from operators for a lighter weight double-decker. I've got a feeling it was either Route One magazine or possibly Buses although this was a while back and I could, of course, be wrong.

 

[Jordan Adam]

IIRC I read somewhere that Volvo had actually intended on replacing the B9TL with a B8TL but then changed it to the B5TL due to pressure from operators for a lighter weight double-decker. I've got a feeling it was either Route One magazine or possibly Buses although this was a while back and I could, of course, be wrong.

I think you're right, now you've said that i do recall hearing it somewhere before. Perhaps they were trying to better compete with the E400MMC and Streetdeck? Out of the three the E400MMC (when equipped with ZF) is the better overall product imo. A B8TL did seem the more logically successor to the B9TL.

 

[DunsBus]

In days of yore LRT timetables would summarise a particular service as operating at 'peak times', the 'working day' or 'full day'. A working day basis would mean yo'd know at a glance it was relevant for Monday to Saturday daytime, but not the evenings or Sundays.
However in this case apparently there used to be a few 19/39 Sunday journeys under a council contract, so maybe not an exact match.
At the moment the 19 operates fom 6am to 9pm Monday to Saturday in its emergency timetable, so that might fall into the category previously classed as a 'working day' service.

I've a copy of the 19/39 timetable leaflet from October 1986 and can confirm, despite the Sunday early morning contract journeys, that the service was described as being a working day one. It went back to being full day in January 1987, following passenger complaints.

Muddying things slightly here, the 38 was still listed as being a working day service after a Sunday timetable was introduced in August 1995. The classic example was the old 82, which although was described as being a working day service on the timetable, for much of the nineties it finished at around 10pm on Mondays to Saturdays and ran on Sundays until the early evening.