West Lothian buses

[DunsBus]

And cost. It's a very expensive place. This would push the price up on an already underused service.

Indeed. I remember reading somewhere for two of the tendered services which use EBS (Borders Buses 51 and 52), which are paid for by Scottish Borders Council and Midlothian Council, the latter council also pays the departure fees. Were it not for that, these services would be running to/from Waterloo Place.

 

[Driver362]

I guess that’s why they brought in the Ex2 as a response, they should of tackled the Linlithgow corridor earlier on, it’s really the only market they have left at this point, but honestly if they were to target that corridor the key winners would be the Kirkliston residents, they had been shafted by LCB for almost a whole year and like otw said that along with Winchburgh and Linlithgow are getting bigger so there’s more targets

Totaly agree have said as much to our management. If they put decent buses on it with sensible pricing and timetable I think they would do rather well. There has been a big recruitment drive recently with a lot of new drivers starting. I guess we need to watch this space and see what happens during the next phase in September

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Also think the EX1 and EX2 should go into the bus station instead of terminating at the Exchange.

At the moment , during the festival I would say they got it right terminating at hay market as like yesterday going from haymarket to regent rd and back took 50 mins with traffic blocking junctions etc

 

[Driver362]

It would surly have been better if the EX2 went through Winchburgh and Broxburn to give those places an express service into Edinburgh. Yes it would take (slightly) longer from Linlithgow but it would increase the number of passengers.

Also think the EX1 and EX2 should go into the bus station instead of terminating at the Exchange.

I would agree re:bus station, but the problem is we could not deploy our wheelchair ramps amongst other things. But even saint Andrews Square but don't k ow how viable that would be. But exange is still another bus or fairly long walk to centre of town.

 

[Driver362]

Indeed. I remember reading somewhere for two of the tendered services which use EBS (Borders Buses 51 and 52), which are paid for by Scottish Borders Council and Midlothian Council, the latter council also pays the departure fees. Were it not for that, these services would be running to/from Waterloo Place.

We also could not deploy our wheelchair ramps if required I believe due to layout of both bus and station

 

[overthewater]

How much is the departure fee? £1.50?

 

[DunsBus]

Hearing that Volvo s/d 117 was damaged by fire earlier today. Along with bridge strike victim 1029, that's now two vehicles which LCB have lost in just over a week.

 

[overthewater]

Lets just say Ex1 and Ex2 has just been given an early xmas present this morning.

 

[GusB]

Lets just say Ex1 and Ex2 has just been given an early xmas present this morning.

Would you care to expand on that? Exactly what has happened to give the EX1 and EX2 an early Christmas present?

 

[Journeyman]

Would you care to expand on that? Exactly what has happened to give the EX1 and EX2 an early Christmas present?

Flooding after yesterday's storms has caused widespread disruption to trains.

 

[Edirim]

I assume he's refering to the fact that 576 worked the EX1/2 this morning.
It's now back on the X18 though.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Hearing that Volvo s/d 117 was damaged by fire earlier today. Along with bridge strike victim 1029, that's now two vehicles which LCB have lost in just over a week.

been off the road since 22nd July

 

[overthewater]

Flooding after yesterday's storms has caused widespread disruption to trains.

Jounreyman is correct, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-49263508

Routes still have problems going into the evening peak still from Yesterday rain. So Lothian must have hit the jackpot with this, maybe this was its plan, start up the service wait until the trains go to pot and then promote the service to hell. I can see dups being placed on the route tonight.

The main rail line from Edinburgh to Glasgow was shut after flooding at Winchburgh tunnel in West Lothian resulted in passengers on five trains being trapped for several hours.

ScotRail said water was sitting two feet above the rails and there was no timescale for the tunnel reopening. The issue is continuing to affect rail services across the central belt.

Image copyrightSCOTRAIL
Image captionEngineers have been working to pump water from Winchburgh tunnel since Wednesday night
ScotRail said engineers had been working through the night to pump water from the tunnel following the deluge on Wednesday.

The rail company said water levels were "falling slowly" and thanked crews from the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service who joined efforts on Thursday.

ScotRail tweeted: "Once the water's cleared, engineers will need to ensure that the tunnel is safe for use. This will involve a thorough inspection and an empty train being driven through to test the lines."

Image captionFirefighters joined efforts at Winchburgh
The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has deployed a high-volume pump to help Network Rail tackle the flood in the 340m-long tunnel.

The pump can remove 7,000 litres a minute, but the large volume of water - up to two-and-a-half feet deep in the middle - means the crews are unsure how long it will take to clear.

Image captionFire crews lower the high-volume pump down to the tunnel
Rail passengers travelling between Glasgow and Edinburgh are being advised to make alternative arrangements for travel and to check ahead before setting off on journeys..

.
In other talk, LCB does not seem to be winning the war over the OFF Peak passengers on the Broxburn route, However First still managed to get more peak passengers mainly because of proper weekly tickets.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Jounreyman is correct, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-49263508

Routes still have problems going into the evening peak still from Yesterday rain. So Lothian must have hit the jackpot with this, maybe this was its plan, start up the service wait until the trains go to pot and then promote the service to hell. I can see dups being placed on the route tonight.

I believe First were offering train ticket acceptance on service 38, which they have probably negotiated with ScotRail rather than just taking it upon themselves. Don't know if that's entirely wise given that the 38 has to be a single decker and isn't exactly famed for punctuality in peak hours at the best of times.
But perhaps that's one of the positives to come out of this new competitive environment. Train ticket acceptance on First Scotland East routes used to be like getting blood out of a stone. They may have claimed some of it was due to First having the ScotRail franchise - but they still seemed to offer train ticket acceptance in Glasgow.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Hearing that Volvo s/d 117 was damaged by fire earlier today. Along with bridge strike victim 1029, that's now two vehicles which LCB have lost in just over a week.

They haven't had very much luck this summer, have they? At least there weren't any serious injuries (or at least I hope there weren't).

 

[Cartaker]

Have been using the Ex2 a couple of days a week and the service is certainly becoming more popular. I spoke to the bus driver on Saturday who said that there had been a high level meeting on Thursday last regarding the continuing viability of the Ex1 and Ex2. His words were that the Ex1 is already under threat of being stopped sooner rather than later. However the powers that be are happy with the uptake on the Ex2 particularly during the evening rush hour. This morning there was 12 people on the bus when it left Linlithgow. Tonight there were 20 people on the bus by the time it reached Haymarket.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Not shocked about EX1, I think it was said by many on here that EX1 would not work as well as they hoped but EX2 had a good chance.

Welcome to the forum

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Good on them for the EX2 as you definitely don’t want to be sitting in kirkliston for 20 mins each night at peaks between Edinburgh and Linlithgow on a 38 .

 

[overthewater]

I'm surprised the Ex1 even got off the ground, only take 10mins longer than X18? Doesn't even go into the city centre, and worse of all it does not go via any house estate, so unlike Ex2 where people could walk out their door, you have to make you way 10-15min up to the main road why bother with the coach?

Of course could the company do with the spare coaches which will come off the EX1? The rumor is another 8 coaches are coming? I doubt Ex1 will disappear with the September Service changes, and there will most likley keep going with no changes until xmas.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Have been using the Ex2 a couple of days a week and the service is certainly becoming more popular. I spoke to the bus driver on Saturday who said that there had been a high level meeting on Thursday last regarding the continuing viability of the Ex1 and Ex2. His words were that the Ex1 is already under threat of being stopped sooner rather than later. However the powers that be are happy with the uptake on the Ex2 particularly during the evening rush hour. This morning there was 12 people on the bus when it left Linlithgow. Tonight there were 20 people on the bus by the time it reached Haymarket.

While it's good to see growth, long term 12-20 passengers during the peaktime is nothing to shout home about and is partially probably down to the rail disruption. Not to mention any potential revenue is lost through the many empty off peak runs. As i said from day one though there is potential for the EX2 to work if extended. Perhaps the inevitable withdrawal of the EX1 will allow for the EX2 to be extended to St Andrews Square, Bo'Ness and/or Falkirk. Additionally increasing the X18 to a 20 minute frequency wouldn't be too bad of an idea as it could stimulate more growth.

 

[DunsBus]

Biggest question of all is why LCB still think there's money to be made in West Lothian when quite clearly there isn't. A year down the line and the operation is losing money hand over fist.

Shops don't persevere with loss-making lines, yet LCB are still quite happy to throw good money after bad. It's time that they pulled the plug.

 

[Weemidi135]

Biggest question of all is why LCB still think there's money to be made in West Lothian when quite clearly there isn't. A year down the line and the operation is losing money hand over fist.

Shops don't persevere with loss-making lines, yet LCB are still quite happy to throw good money after bad. It's time that they pulled the plug.

You have seen the figures have you?

Would you be kind enough to show us these figures

 

[scotrail158713]

You have seen the figures have you?

Would you be kind enough to show us these figures

I’ve not seen any figures but I’ve seen plenty of buses and they don’t look like they’re profit making. It’ll be a surprise to me if they’ve made any profit.

 

[Jordan Adam]

You have seen the figures have you?

Would you be kind enough to show us these figures

I recall someone once said it doesn't have to be Christmas to know when your sitting on a turkey. I think that logic speaks for itself, just take one look at passenger numbers and you can tell straight away that it's not breaking even.

 

[overthewater]

The only route that seems to be half busy arw thw x18, which of course never run to time.

The big Q is still why has lothian not introduced a proper weekly or monthly tickets. If people keep on saying lcb need to cover its cost then this tells you all you need to know how bad adventure has been.

If they did this it would be game over.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

***Tin foil hat time.***

I don't know if it has been mentioned before but if it has, then good.

Maybe LB and LCB don't care right now about profits in WL right now. They have just bought a depot in LV, (plus Newbridge depot), and some new buses, coaches, plus a brand new travelhub in Shandwick Place (not sure if bought or renting), so profits were used from mainline services. Lothian have to give over a dividend to the trams to help with the building of the line from profits. LB have tried to distance themself away from the trams it looks like, and on their website, under Lothian family, have no mention of trams but do with every other bus service inc motorcoaches. So, the spending of profits on those, plus filling in any lost money on LCB 'debt', the less profit LB have for the dividend to give to the trams. Trams are a rival to them ie 100 bus, and with the disruption of the building of the rest of the line, maybe LB just don't care about the tram and would rather not give it as much as it could have? Also, the travel hub says "By Lothian" and no mention of Transport for Edinburgh. Also, on all buses, TfE is nowhere to be seen yet it used to be on them.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/27933811735/ - with
https://www.flickr.com/photos/quomaneastlothian/47978813528 - without but with a huge Lothian sign instead.

And with most of the money being spent on the 2 depots, it's money that is in bricks and mortar, so it's not lost, just tied up.

I did say tin foil hat time but it's a theory... And, if this IS what is happening, then we might see more investment than before. Another new depot for example?

NOT saying it is true, just something I thought about when looking at some buses and the shop recently as it is a good way of spending profits without low risk on losing it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

***Tin foil hat time.***

I don't know if it has been mentioned before but if it has, then good.

Maybe LB and LCB don't care right now about profits in WL right now. They have just bought a depot in LV, (plus Newbridge depot), and some new buses, coaches, plus a brand new travelhub in Shandwick Place (not sure if bought or renting), so profits were used from mainline services.

I did say tin foil hat time but it's a theory... And, if this IS what is happening, then we might see more investment than before. Another new depot for example?

I don't know if the foil hat is needed or not.

In truth, none of us know the financials involved in either Lothian and First and the extent of any losses. Doubtless, the initial business plan will have factored in a period of loss making with a graduated move to greater profitability over time, perhaps linked with an expectation of First waving the white flag and exiting.

The shock and awe hasn't worked and First have dug in. In fact, they have recast their network and introduced BBT which will be impacting Lothian. I know it's a year since phase 1 appeared but it really is too early to say how this will end up.

 

[Darklord8899]

I reckon that's a pretty decent theory @SpeedbirdA350

 

[A330Alex]

***Tin foil hat time.***

I don't know if it has been mentioned before but if it has, then good.

Maybe LB and LCB don't care right now about profits in WL right now. They have just bought a depot in LV, (plus Newbridge depot), and some new buses, coaches, plus a brand new travelhub in Shandwick Place (not sure if bought or renting), so profits were used from mainline services. Lothian have to give over a dividend to the trams to help with the building of the line from profits. LB have tried to distance themself away from the trams it looks like, and on their website, under Lothian family, have no mention of trams but do with every other bus service inc motorcoaches. So, the spending of profits on those, plus filling in any lost money on LCB 'debt', the less profit LB have for the dividend to give to the trams. Trams are a rival to them ie 100 bus, and with the disruption of the building of the rest of the line, maybe LB just don't care about the tram and would rather not give it as much as it could have? Also, the travel hub says "By Lothian" and no mention of Transport for Edinburgh. Also, on all buses, TfE is nowhere to be seen yet it used to be on them.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/27933811735/ - with
https://www.flickr.com/photos/quomaneastlothian/47978813528 - without but with a huge Lothian sign instead.

And with most of the money being spent on the 2 depots, it's money that is in bricks and mortar, so it's not lost, just tied up.

I did say tin foil hat time but it's a theory... And, if this IS what is happening, then we might see more investment than before. Another new depot for example?

NOT saying it is true, just something I thought about when looking at some buses and the shop recently as it is a good way of spending profits without low risk on losing it.

It makes sense and there’s clearly a level of resentment towards TfE from Lothian but the council/TfE aren’t completely blind. If Lothian declare a massively lower dividend I can only imagine lots of questions will be asked of RH? At which point surely they’d just tell him to stop taking the piss/boot him

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It makes sense and there’s clearly a level of resentment towards TfE from Lothian but the council/TfE aren’t completely blind. If Lothian declare a massively lower dividend I can only imagine lots of questions will be asked of RH? At which point surely they’d just tell him to stop taking the piss/boot him

RH could respond that LB is owned by West Lothian Council too (yes, 1% but still they own something) and as such, they deserve some form of return on their ownership, so LB started LCB and invested in that, which WLC are very happy with. It also means every share holder council has some LB buses from the LB family in its region. Hard to fire him over that, given most new business ventures start with a debt due to investments.