West Lothian buses

[overthewater]

If first want to cause trouble, it should head to herott watt with a 25.. With 1.50 fare... And maybe wester hails.

 

[Darklord8899]

If first want to cause trouble, it should head to herott watt with a 25.. With 1.50 fare... And maybe wester hails.

Talking of Heriot Watt, I see that Citylink now have peak 900's that now run via Calder Road and stop at Heriot Watt (im guessing at same stop the X27/X28 use)

 

[In Focus]

talk are at first depot about them trying to bulk up there staff to move more routes into Edinburgh

they have 25 buses coming to livi soon apparently

You can also expect a reduction in City fares for travel to and from City Centre from the Boundaries(m zone) as the know Lothian can't reduce certain parts of thier network without reducing them all .
Also expect First to make a play for the Airport (100 service) when it comes around for renewal and I would expect a route from Livingston to Edinburgh via Balerno Currie and slateford road to be part of a move into Edinburgh.
All this of course depends on Driver numbers it is not difficult to get 25 + vehicles it's a harder task recruiting and keeping Staff .

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think the advantage First is gaining is still serving Dalry/Gorgie. Whenever I travel into the city centre, a lot of people are getting off there especially Haymarket. I don’t know if it is the speed LCB drive at but I didn’t feel the use of Western Approach Road cut off any time off peak and on peak the buses seem to get stuck in the traffic by the Caley Picture House/Caley Hotel.

Off Peak is definitely noticeable, I think the fact they don’t serve the bus stops on Lothian Road speeds it up a little. I predicted they would use west approach road even before the services were first announced, it’s like regent road to then. however your right about how busy it is at Dalry/Gorgie. though LCB technically serve a bit of Dalry (the back of fountainpark)

You can also expect a reduction in City fares for travel to and from City Centre from the Boundaries(m zone) as the know Lothian can't reduce certain parts of thier network without reducing them all .
Also expect First to make a play for the Airport (100 service) when it comes around for renewal and I would expect a route from Livingston to Edinburgh via Balerno Currie and slateford road to be part of a move into Edinburgh.
All this of course depends on Driver numbers it is not difficult to get 25 + vehicles it's a harder task recruiting and keeping Staff .

How do Firsts fare structure work exactly? in terms of Single Tickets, when I used to travel I was unsure how much I was expecting to pay when I boarded, and when I tried the website I got confused. I imagine the city is just the city fare, but from like East Calder to Livingston/Deans? is it 1.70 like LCB or is it a little more?

Wasent the Livingston to Currie route underused? I’ve seen a few comments asking Lothian to resurrect that route and they responded that they didn’t think it was viable

 

[In Focus]

Off Peak is definitely noticeable, I think the fact they don’t serve the bus stops on Lothian Road speeds it up a little. I predicted they would use west approach road even before the services were first announced, it’s like regent road to then. however your right about how busy it is at Dalry/Gorgie. though LCB technically serve a bit of Dalry (the back of fountainpark)



How do Firsts fare structure work exactly? in terms of Single Tickets, when I used to travel I was unsure how much I was expecting to pay when I boarded, and when I tried the website I got confused. I imagine the city is just the city fare, but from like East Calder to Livingston/Deans? is it 1.70 like LCB or is it a little more?

Wasent the Livingston to Currie route underused? I’ve seen a few comments asking Lothian to resurrect that route and they responded that they didn’t think it was viable

Single tickets are very unpredictable, seems the more rural the more expensive , Deans to Livingston is currently £2.10 , East Calder to Livingston £1.60 , travelling from Blackrodge / Fauldhouse etc is expensive if your doing it on single fares hence the use of £18 weekly or £4.50 day tickets , it's always been the case that single fares remain at high levels to accommodate the concessionary percentages on that system , which raises the question how do LCB work out their percentage if they do not get any concessionary destinations upon boarding ?
As for the Balerno issue I'd guess the nuisance value of charging £1 to get into town on zone M would make it worthwhile no matter the numbers travelling on Livingston part .

 

[overthewater]

Livingston to Currie route ie No24 was cut in the last tender round in 2016. I would be surprised if first went for Balerno, there would be better of with the uni. If Lothian starts making points about how its ridercard is better value then it real double standards...

 

[MrHopefull]

Talks of moving the 600 down to ocean terminal via airport.

 

[In Focus]

Highly unlikely If proposed tramworks in Leith go ahead .

 

[overthewater]

I dont think it via the city... Ie via gas office..

 

[smtglasgow]

If First want to make a point without losing too much money, they should try a frequent Heriot Watt or Wester Hailes -City service. Nothing fancy or particularly innovative, just something that mirrors Lothians 3/25. Offer a competitive weekly ticket, cream off some of the cash/concession fares, maybe just run 7 til 7 and Sunday shopping hours. It might work long-term, it might not, but it would hit Lothian’s bottom line and maybe force a rethink on West Lothian. After all, with First having retrenched so much, there isn’t really any way for Lothian to hit back against First.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

If First want to make a point without losing too much money, they should try a frequent Heriot Watt or Wester Hailes -City service. Nothing fancy or particularly innovative, just something that mirrors Lothians 3/25. Offer a competitive weekly ticket, cream off some of the cash/concession fares, maybe just run 7 til 7 and Sunday shopping hours. It might work long-term, it might not, but it would hit Lothian’s bottom line and maybe force a rethink on West Lothian. After all, with First having retrenched so much, there isn’t really any way for Lothian to hit back against First.

I reckon Lothian have a far more loyal customer base than first do, I would see that to be very little use.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

During the last bus wars, I think First were 10p cheaper than Lothian and it worked to a degree but now with more people having ridacards (financially commited to Lothian - AND one of the things I am still scratching my head over as to why they have not pushed this out in to LCB) I wonder if First would have the same success as it did back then? And then, they even backed off for no apparant reason. Competition is healthy, as long as it does not kill off any services or routes in the end. However, Lothian need to take their head out of the sand and look around...

 

[In Focus]

I reckon Lothian have a far more loyal customer base than first do, I would see that to be very little use.

You underestimate the power of cheap fare and winter weather when most will jump up in the bus that arrives whilst they are stood freezing .
To a point you are correct and first will never be dominant in Edinburgh however nuisance value and it's a possibility First will take more £££ in Edinburgh than LCB will in West Lothian

 

[In Focus]

I reckon Lothian have a far more loyal customer base than first do, I would see that to be very little use.

You underestimate the power of cheap fare and winter weather when most will jump up in the bus that arrives whilst they are stood freezing .
To a point you are correct and first will never be dominant in Edinburgh however nuisance value and it's a possibility First will take more £££ in Edinburgh than LCB will in West Lothian

 

[Gingerbus1991]

You underestimate the power of cheap fare and winter weather when most will jump up in the bus that arrives whilst they are stood freezing .
To a point you are correct and first will never be dominant in Edinburgh however nuisance value and it's a possibility First will take more £££ in Edinburgh than LCB will in West Lothian

Even more reason that LB would protect thereselfs in these circumstances.

I highly dout first have the resources or drivers etc at hand for this.

 

[In Focus]

Even more reason that LB would protect thereselfs in these circumstances.

I highly dout first have the resources or drivers etc at hand for this.

Competition / buswars call it what you will ,if Lothian aggressively go after other areas at some point they have to expect companies to respond and what others do is out with Lothians control .
Speaking of resources how thin will Lothian really stretch themselves before it becomes unsustainable?

 

[Tartanarmy85]

There a lot post Lothian Country running fresh air was said for last 6 weeks my daughter was in wheelchair I used Lothian Country great connection time and connection and service so used for full 6 weeks from. Blackridge to Edinburgh always seen steady good loads yet to see fresh air buses seen couple first buses empty I did travel day time between 11am and 7pm latest drivers Lothian Country was amazing helpful

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Competition / buswars call it what you will ,if Lothian aggressively go after other areas at some point they have to expect companies to respond and what others do is out with Lothians control .
Speaking of resources how thin will Lothian really stretch themselves before it becomes unsustainable?

First will continue eating itself into unsustainability, at least in some areas in scotland, namely Falkirk, Stirling and West Lothian, of course west lothian have to compete heavily with the trains, there biggest challenge, but whilst first groups bank account as a whole will make lothians look like a piggy bank, many will think that first dont appear to have the capital for ANYTHING more than late, overpriced or rude drivers, of course they do, the point being that there tight fisted idiots as far as many think, it is very true.

Lothian as I see it are willing to stretch much, MUCH further than First will ever be willing to in West Lothian.

Only when First is threatened has it decided to sit up and defend itself, not out of loyalty or compassion for passengers but out of sheer cash cowing it, even though many on here have accused lothian of doing this, First have done it for years in return for a tatty service and vehicles on even the smallest of things.

If lothian only introduced a weekly ticket at a lower fair point than firsts equivalent ticket, lothian would make a far larger dent in firsts ops than first could make in any of lothians city centre routes.

 

[In Focus]

There a lot post Lothian Country running fresh air was said for last 6 weeks my daughter was in wheelchair I used Lothian Country great connection time and connection and service so used for full 6 weeks from. Blackridge to Edinburgh always seen steady good loads yet to see fresh air buses seen couple first buses empty I did travel day time between 11am and 7pm latest drivers Lothian Country was amazing helpful

Has it been running the 280 6 weeks already ?
As stated the 280 is probably the 1 route carrying people and it's no coincidence that's the 1 route they didn't invent but instead attacked the 25 in both timings and route ,the 25 that leaves Armadale certainly carries more than the Blackridge service and you could see First dropping that part if people prefer LCB service.
The bus I feel for is the 150 been serving Blackridge well for many years but will now be feeling the pinch for sure.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Has it been running the 280 6 weeks already ?
As stated the 280 is probably the 1 route carrying people and it's no coincidence that's the 1 route they didn't invent but instead attacked the 25 in both timings and route ,the 25 that leaves Armadale certainly carries more than the Blackridge service and you could see First dropping that part if people prefer LCB service.
The bus I feel for is the 150 been serving Blackridge well for many years but will now be feeling the pinch for sure.

I surely reckon the pax traveling with lothian eill be happier than those on first buses, least lothian know how to clean a bus.

 

[In Focus]

First will continue eating itself into unsustainability, at least in some areas in scotland, namely Falkirk, Stirling and West Lothian, of course west lothian have to compete heavily with the trains, there biggest challenge, but whilst first groups bank account as a whole will make lothians look like a piggy bank, many will think that first dont appear to have the capital for ANYTHING more than late, overpriced or rude drivers, of course they do, the point being that there tight fisted idiots as far as many think, it is very true.

Lothian as I see it are willing to stretch much, MUCH further than First will ever be willing to in West Lothian.

Only when First is threatened has it decided to sit up and defend itself, not out of loyalty or compassion for passengers but out of sheer cash cowing it, even though many on here have accused lothian of doing this, First have done it for years in return for a tatty service and vehicles on even the smallest of things.

If lothian only introduced a weekly ticket at a lower fair point than firsts equivalent ticket, lothian would make a far larger dent in firsts ops than first could make in any of lothians city centre routes.

Some decent points but some absolute nonsense ,the whole good drivers bad drivers nonsense is certainly a fable created on Social Media !
As for funds First will make available what is required and look to take advantage of Lothians poor strategy in West Lothian.
Whatever your personal.ferlings are it should not cloud the issues that a business is just that and Firsts problems were well documented however it may just be that LCB intrusion and aggressive attempt a to put them out of business might just be the kick they needed and you know what they say about picking a fight with far bigger beast ,never a really wise move .

 

[In Focus]

I surely reckon the pax traveling with lothian eill be happier than those on first buses, least lothian know how to clean a bus.

Haha your love is admirable ,they also know how to use public funded tax money ,throwing it about all over West Lothian like confetti and I for one am none too keen on my money being used to fund someone's whim , clean bus or not .

 

[Tartanarmy85]

I been giving a warning because I stated Lothian buses is not subsidised by the council they give the council a divedend every year? Last time I know this was true?

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I been giving a warning because I stated Lothian buses is not subsidised by the council they give the council a divedend every year? Last time I know this was true?

Yeah as far as I’m led to believe edinburgh CC are a 90% shareholder, with the remaining 10 divided amongst, East, Mid and West Lothian councils.

Haha your love is admirable ,they also know how to use public funded tax money ,throwing it about all over West Lothian like confetti and I for one am none too keen on my money being used to fund someone's whim , clean bus or not .

Tax Money is what pays for your emergency services, your bins to be emptied, not every kid has wealthy parents to send them to private schools, Tax pays for everything local or country wide, its called a “public bus service” service(concession cards are a massive example of where tax money goes), Needless to say many times over and over again, over many years first and stagecoach were very aggressive in there tactics and take in tax payers money everyday, who can blame Lothian for attempting a better service, East Coast Buses is by far a great example of Lothians Success, if there managers feel that its the right, next logical step, then fair be it all bus companys are just the same in many respects.

Some decent points but some absolute nonsense ,the whole good drivers bad drivers nonsense is certainly a fable created on Social Media !
As for funds First will make available what is required and look to take advantage of Lothians poor strategy in West Lothian.
Whatever your personal.ferlings are it should not cloud the issues that a business is just that and Firsts problems were well documented however it may just be that LCB intrusion and aggressive attempt a to put them out of business might just be the kick they needed and you know what they say about picking a fight with far bigger beast ,never a really wise move .

Simples, would you rather be greated with a Friendly-Hello or a grumpy fart bag who could’nt be bothered to move out of his seat to help people! One area first lack is customer or employee involvement, I can say beyond a shadow of any doubt First group would come out one of the worst for its customer service.

Funds where it is required? Compare Lothians Fleet to First Glasgows Fleet and you soon get the picture of how First think in terms of requirement(or lack thereof)! In an industry that constantly endures falling pax numbers Lothian have constantly put that into perspective and kept there fleet as Clean as possible, on-time, relatively new and cheap...we are talking £1.70, musselburgh to clovenstone, the equivalent journey with FiG would cost £2.30.

The fares arent massively different I agree, comparing Glsgw and Ednrgh, put into plain terms, people get more for there money with Lothian than first can really muster, against my own views its a pitty lothian havent undercut First on Weekly tickets and of course lothian still havent got Contactless fares on the go city wide yet! Something most others had well over a year ago!

 

[overthewater]

I managed to see some more LCB today, its was a real mix bag. There were people on 275 to Whitburn, very little coming from Broxburn. 27/28 had people but as stated what ever come first got the passengers, people were not waiting... 280 was dead! Truly is a real mix bag,

 

[MrHopefull]

don't think people are bothered the ADL DD are nice buses aswell so only really cares and times it comes down to

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I managed to see some more LCB today, its was a real mix bag. There were people on 275 to Whitburn, very little coming from Broxburn. 27/28 had people but as stated what ever come first got the passengers, people were not waiting... 280 was dead! Truly is a real mix bag,

I reckon the 275 is a good concept of service, particularly as you can also use the tram to the city centre from the gyle, a benefit that First miss out on.

Again, regardless of the operator, West Lothian like many parts of scotland and the UK as a whole have found people not wanting to use a bus, not because they cant.

The 23/x23 - 27/28, do these routes all use the same route approaching the city centre Calder Rd > Gorgie > Lothian Rd? Perhaps some of them are using the West Approach Rd?

Are Edinburghs bus lanes back to 12hr operation?
Not been in edinburgh for a few months now.

 

[kje7812]

I reckon the 275 is a good concept of service, particularly as you can also use the tram to the city centre from the gyle, a benefit that First miss out on.

Again, regardless of the operator, West Lothian like many parts of scotland and the UK as a whole have found people not wanting to use a bus, not because they cant.

The 23/x23 - 27/28, do these routes all use the same route approaching the city centre Calder Rd > Gorgie > Lothian Rd? Perhaps some of them are using the West Approach Rd?

Are Edinburghs bus lanes back to 12hr operation?
Not been in edinburgh for a few months now.

The 23/x23 is via Gorgie, Dalry and Shandwick Place. The X27/28 go via the West Approach road.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The 23/x23 is via Gorgie, Dalry and Shandwick Place. The X27/28 go via the West Approach road.

That makes sense I suppose. The W apprch Rd is quicker than Gorgie to Princes St I think? plus lothian already have Calder Rd/Gorgie sewn up with the 3 and 25.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

don't think people are bothered the ADL DD are nice buses aswell so only really cares and times it comes down to

Personally, I find ADL to be less comfortable, but that might be down to the seat on first rather than ADL itself. Speed however is most important to me.

Are Edinburghs bus lanes back to 12hr operation?

They were never 12 hour before. We had 3 different types of bus lane here. Either 24hr (rare), All day Mon - Fri 7:30am-6:30pm and Sat 8:30am - 6:30pm and then peak Mon - Fri 7:30am - 9:30am and 4pm - 6:30pm but the new rule going in place will be 7am-7pm- 7 days a week. 7/7/7 easy to remember for people.
As for when this happens, I don't think a date has been agreed upon yet.

That makes sense I suppose. The W apprch Rd is quicker than Gorgie to Princes St I think? plus lothian already have Calder Rd/Gorgie sewn up with the 3 and 25.

West Approach Road is far quicker as it's 40mph most of the way with just stops at Sainsburys, Fountainpark, and the Exchange at Lothian Road. Bus lane also runs towards the city anyway on WAR for part of it too.