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West Lothian buses

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TheEastCoaster

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Give it a year, once LCB make a good profit from this West Lothian venture (and trust me they will) then a new Depot will be in the works and a full Lothian takeover is underway.

Unless Lothian Country announce a new zonal Ridacard for West Lothian users then many folk in Livi/Bathgate are probably going to be disappointed. Since most folk on Facebook seem to think the normal Ridacard will be valid for full travel in that network.

Maybe finally there will be the inevitable Network Ridacard that's valid on all buses. Including ECB Zone C-F, Lothian Country, Trams and Airlinks
 

MrHopefull

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Give it a year, once LCB make a good profit from this West Lothian venture (and trust me they will) then a new Depot will be in the works and a full Lothian takeover is underway.

Unless Lothian Country announce a new zonal Ridacard for West Lothian users then many folk in Livi/Bathgate are probably going to be disappointed. Since most folk on Facebook seem to think the normal Ridacard will be valid for full travel in that network.

Maybe finally there will be the inevitable Network Ridacard that's valid on all buses. Including ECB Zone C-F, Lothian Country, Trams and Airlinks
there was once talks off a so called "super depot"
with everyone in it, gossips been stale around depots lately.
 
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"LCB have admitted that they're looking at a new depot in Livingston, can anyone confirm if Lothian still have their non operational premises in Broxburn"

I didn't realise LCB had or have any non op premises in Broxburn . Where would this be or where was it .
 

overthewater

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Give it a year, once LCB make a good profit from this West Lothian venture (and trust me they will) then a new Depot will be in the works and a full Lothian takeover is underway.

Unless Lothian Country announce a new zonal Ridacard for West Lothian users then many folk in Livi/Bathgate are probably going to be disappointed. Since most folk on Facebook seem to think the normal Ridacard will be valid for full travel in that network.

Maybe finally there will be the inevitable Network Ridacard that's valid on all buses. Including ECB Zone C-F, Lothian Country, Trams and Airlinks

I think people are counting their eggs before they hatch, I think LCB might need to look again at what its offering. First know this was coming and it finally made them get off its back side and actually overhaul the stale network for the better. For two weeks/14 days All passengers will have the no choice but to use revised First network, and people will see the benefit of the speeded up services and routes, I think passengers will then make the switch were possible, to see what the new service is like, but that is where is going to have troubles. Passengers are soon going release First have faster and more direct services compared to LCB. I believe First will price match LCB since it already has very cheap tickets on offer. That's not say there isn't some LCB only links; Broxburn to St Johns H or Gyle. Craigshill to a Local High school and Bathgate.

Are the passenger going to stay with LCB for the same price out of pure spite? A good number just can't waste time. Whitburn passengers will have a three fight for their business all going the same route...

People have already notice and made comments how the routes go on mystical tours around Livington. I love a good bus war, as they say: Want a better bus service? start a bus war......
 

SpeedbirdA350

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Are the passenger going to stay with LCB for the same price out of pure spite? A good number just can't waste time.
IMO it depends if they will have the same ridacard/day saver options as the ridacard might just be the clincher here. Especially if they plan on going in to Edinburgh and using other buses at the weekends for example. While it will probably be a farestage like ECB, lothian ridacard is valid on 43/x43, and although I don't expect it to be the same as that to Livingston, they might actually think, especially if it is the start of a bus war, that it's worth it to get more people to have a ridacard and then those passangers are locked financially in to lothian services. I know with ECB they allow ridacards for stages A and B only but as I said, if this is the start of some war then they might allow it just to lock folk in. Or make the "extra cost" linked with the pass to be of a negligible amount.
 

Stef434

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"LCB have admitted that they're looking at a new depot in Livingston, can anyone confirm if Lothian still have their non operational premises in Broxburn"

I didn't realise LCB had or have any non op premises in Broxburn . Where would this be or where was it .
Lothian Buses not LCB had a non op centre in East Mains Ind Est (well hidden) not registered as an operating centre.. FirstGroup sent down Rvn to count bus movement
 

overthewater

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To be fair First goes done there because of the worker and shortly the X23 at peak time will also go down that road because the workers demanded it.
 

TheEastCoaster

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Wish LCB could release fare information asap, can't help but think of what the fares will be like to Livi, I keep thinking it'll be 3.70 like Haddington/Gullene but I want to see if I'm right. Anyone got a good guess?
 

smtglasgow

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Still think that First are in the unlikely position of being the stronger side in this fight. They have the larger network and established day/weekly tickets – if they price things right (maybe match any LCB offer?), they might see LCB off. But if LCB really try to make a go of it (ie. a much stronger set of routes than what they’re introducing next month), all bets are off. First have had a toxic reputation in the area for years - not sure if the rebranding in the last few years has done anything to change things - but passengers are creatures of habit, so they may stick with what they know.
 

overthewater

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First already fired the first shot. With £2 off-peak tick ticket around West lothian, and £5 ticket to Edinburgh. This has been in place well before lcb made its announcement.
 
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First already fired the first shot. With £2 off-peak tick ticket around West lothian, and £5 ticket to Edinburgh. This has been in place well before lcb made its announcement.

This was for june only , can't remember now the new media partnership company name but they done another one ,buy an adult day ticket and up to 2 kids travel free .
 

backontrack

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Lothian should aim for the holes in the market.

Edinburgh-Edinburgh Park-Gyle-Newbridge-Kirkliston-Winchburgh-Linlithgow
Edinburgh-Bathgate-Blackburn
Edinburgh-Bathgate-Whitburn

First have vacated these routes or cut their services along them. It could be a good opportunity to expand for Lothian.
 

overthewater

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This was for june only , can't remember now the new media partnership company name but they done another one ,buy an adult day ticket and up to 2 kids travel free .

Cheers for that, i dare say there will be another offer around the same time the schools go back and LCB appear.

Lothian should aim for the holes in the market.

Edinburgh-Edinburgh Park-Gyle-Newbridge-Kirkliston-Winchburgh-Linlithgow
Edinburgh-Bathgate-Blackburn
Edinburgh-Bathgate-Whitburn

First have vacated these routes or cut their services along them. It could be a good opportunity to expand for Lothian.

Why? you seem to be plucking ideas from nothing. Lothian already has a route "Edinburgh Park-Gyle-Newbridge-Kirkliston" Linlithgow has the train and First tried to see if there was any demand from Winchburgh and it clear its not. The other two suggesting well First has a bus every 15mins between Blackburn - Bathgate and I doubt the passengers want to go back on themselves to to get to edinburgh. It would awful way for Lothian to expand, and carry fresh air.
 

Journeyman

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Cheers for that, i dare say there will be another offer around the same time the schools go back and LCB appear.



Why? you seem to be plucking ideas from nothing. Lothian already has a route "Edinburgh Park-Gyle-Newbridge-Kirkliston" Linlithgow has the train and First tried to see if there was any demand from Winchburgh and it clear its not. The other two suggesting well First has a bus every 15mins between Blackburn - Bathgate and I doubt the passengers want to go back on themselves to to get to edinburgh. It would awful way for Lothian to expand, and carry fresh air.

Winchburgh is about to lose half its buses and people are NOT happy about it. If Lothian stepped in, I'm sure they'd do well with the right product, certainly as Winchburgh is unlikely to get a station for a couple of years. Winchburgh - Edinburgh and Winchburgh - Linlithgow traffic offers some potential, but Linlithgow - Edinburgh by bus absolutely can't compete in terms of journey time and there's no point in anyone trying to capture that market.
 

overthewater

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Lothian won't be going to Winchburgh, I can tell you why. There is a nice big pile of money for improving the bus network, now why run it yourself when you can get paid to do so for a couple of years with out risk. This process hasn't even started yet,
 

TheEastCoaster

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Lothian should aim for the holes in the market.

Edinburgh-Edinburgh Park-Gyle-Newbridge-Kirkliston-Winchburgh-Linlithgow
Edinburgh-Bathgate-Blackburn
Edinburgh-Bathgate-Whitburn

First have vacated these routes or cut their services along them. It could be a good opportunity to expand for Lothian.

I'd see how it goes the next year or two, ECB is 2 years old and now it's one of the biggest East Lothian bus networks.

A kirkliston service would definitely do better coming from the city centre instead of Edinburgh Park because as said above the 63 already links it. But all we can hope is that this venture turns successful and more ground gets covered eventually
 

overthewater

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I dont If lothian are going to carry on with crap routes. People from Scotstoun don't like the 43. I take it, its still no though road to Dalmeny station.
 

smtglasgow

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Lothian won't be going to Winchburgh, I can tell you why. There is a nice big pile of money for improving the bus network, now why run it yourself when you can get paid to do so for a couple of years with out risk. This process hasn't even started yet,

Is it likely that much of the development money will end up being spent on bus services? Presumably local roads need widened and improved and there is the small matter of the promised new station – the cost of new stations is off the scale (Robroyston, near me, is heading towards £20m). Might get some new infrastructure and some new local links, but I’d guess the council will be gambling on commercial services meeting most of the need.

I do think that First may be shooting themselves in the foot by reducing the 38. It might be struggling a bit at the moment, but the developments in Winchburgh, Kirkliston and around the airport are going to start kicking in over the next few years, so probably not very smart to allow a competitor in (assuming that LCB see an opportunity).

The locals have been asking for Lothian to move in for years. Kirkliston is within the City of Edinburgh, so most probably think they’re paying for Lothian through their Council Tax – and good luck telling them otherwise.
 

overthewater

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Is it likely that much of the development money will end up being spent on bus services? Presumably local roads need widened and improved and there is the small matter of the promised new station – the cost of new stations is off the scale (Robroyston, near me, is heading towards £20m). Might get some new infrastructure and some new local links, but I’d guess the council will be gambling on commercial services meeting most of the need.

The money is earmarked only for Bus service and that it. There is a separate pot for roads, to be fair most of the road changes have already take place mainly at the western edge. There is new road to be built but that up to the developers to build. Im not sure who has to pay for the new slip road to the M9, but that up to transport scotland who contronts that road.


I do think that First may be shooting themselves in the foot by reducing the 38. It might be struggling a bit at the moment, but the developments in Winchburgh, Kirkliston and around the airport are going to start kicking in over the next few years, so probably not very smart to allow a competitor in (assuming that LCB see an opportunity).

The locals have been asking for Lothian to move in for years. Kirkliston is within the City of Edinburgh, so most probably think they’re paying for Lothian through their Council Tax – and good luck telling them otherwise.

The route has been problematic for years and has tried to keep it every 15mins including bus route development grant but it failed. Here is the thing developments in Winchburgh, is at the peak yet and alot more needs to be down. Kirkliston on the other hand Does it need a bus every 15mins in to the city? would it be better to have a service to North Edinburgh?
 

TheEastCoaster

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The route has been problematic for years and has tried to keep it every 15mins including bus route development grant but it failed. Here is the thing developments in Winchburgh, is at the peak yet and alot more needs to be down. Kirkliston on the other hand Does it need a bus every 15mins in to the city? would it be better to have a service to North Edinburgh?


The demand for a service is clearly there and Kirkliston deserves just as much of a good service as any other area, stepping stones. Just need to see how first will handle the 38 in the future. There won't be a brand new route direct to Kirkliston out of nowhere, it has to replace the 38 as far as Linlithgow otherwise it's hopeless.

15 minutes is a bit overboard considering the most Queensferry gets is every 20 minutes. Heck any East Lothian town beyond Zone B hardly has a higher frequency than 30 minutes. Which I think for long distance is perfect to start with.
 

158756

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The money is earmarked only for Bus service and that it. There is a separate pot for roads, to be fair most of the road changes have already take place mainly at the western edge. There is new road to be built but that up to the developers to build. Im not sure who has to pay for the new slip road to the M9, but that up to transport scotland who contronts that road.

I've had a quick look through the section 75 agreement and all that has is £500,000 for 'public transport' (excluding the station), plus whatever, if anything, the outcome of a review of transport provision decided.

£500k on it's own won't get much, install a couple of shelters, subsidise evening services for a few years. Even if they have got much more out of the developers I doubt they'd use it to fund competition with the existing commercial service. I also thought it was the usual practice for any developer funded buses to be introduced quite early in the development - Winchburgh already looks to have added several hundred homes.
 

overthewater

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I've had a quick look through the section 75 agreement and all that has is £500,000 for 'public transport' (excluding the station), plus whatever, if anything, the outcome of a review of transport provision decided.

£500k on it's own won't get much, install a couple of shelters, subsidise evening services for a few years. Even if they have got much more out of the developers I doubt they'd use it to fund competition with the existing commercial service. I also thought it was the usual practice for any developer funded buses to be introduced quite early in the development - Winchburgh already looks to have added several hundred homes.

I dont understand you point? the money is there to build up the current network IE make 600 every 30mins to livingston or have a new route to Edinburgh north etc and it would be done like BRDG system to make it more far reaching, 500K in that since will get some proper improvements long term. Why does it need subsidise evening services ???? you can get a bus at 1am!
 

158756

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I dont understand you point? the money is there to build up the current network IE make 600 every 30mins to livingston or have a new route to Edinburgh north etc and it would be done like BRDG system to make it more far reaching, 500K in that since will get some proper improvements long term. Why does it need subsidise evening services ???? you can get a bus at 1am!

My point is that if routes to Winchburgh really are viable Lothian or anyone else shouldn't be waiting around for a chance of a slice of £500k before setting them up, and the council shouldn't be handing out scarce funds to profitable routes. And if the service is significantly loss making £500k won't get very far. I'm not sure there will be big rewards for Lothian from not serving Winchburgh.

Evening and Sunday service to Livingston looks very sparse to me. Obvious use of the money if West Lothian are still interested in evenings or Sundays.
 
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