West Lothian buses

[In Focus]

Well there is enough people in West Lothian, just a lack of them using a bus.

Correct because unlike city dwellers buses are not seen as a main form of commuting ,the car is and to change that is going to be a very difficult process with the geographical layout of the county.

 

[overthewater]

If I was a car driver I won't switch to Lothian the unlimited travel tickets cost to much and the journey times are poor. As said before SQ seems to have lost passengers but those loses have been outweigh by new ones.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The stigma around buses being slow is the roads clogged particularly at rush hour, however, simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone nowadays.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The stigma around buses being slow is the roads clogged particularly at rush hour, however, simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone nowadays.

Nobody would do that, they would arrive at the bus stop at the departure time and complain on social media that the bus ran a few seconds early lol

 

[overthewater]

The stigma around buses being slow is the roads clogged particularly at rush hour, however, simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone nowadays.

No.. First can do deans to the shops in 15mins.. Lcb take 30mins...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

So to summarise, let’s recap

Mid August 2018 (Phase 1)
Lothian Country expand their operations to West Lothian replacing the old 27/28 with their X27/X28 with a few tweaks to the route such as omitting Gorgie to speed the journey times (Good), they also introduced the 275 to Whitburn to Edinburgh Park to connect with the Tram for onwards travel to the city (Okay), Fares caused a controversial split with local commuters with some staying with First due to weekly and monthly passes with some giving Lothian a chance

End September (Phase 2)
Lothian introduce two new routes branching out to Armadale and Blackridge (furthest a Lothian service has ever been in the West), and connecting Wester Inch with Livingston Centre, overall some useful routes for locals in West Lothian.

December 1st (Phase 3)
4 months into West Lothian and they introduce the first night bus, N28 which partially mirrors the X28 except it omits Kirknewton, the X18 is also introduced offering a faster link to Edinburgh from Bathgate, Contactless is also brought on although a missed opportunity for a ridacard option

And now Phase 4

A new route connecting West Calder/Loganlea with Deans North is coming, a few tweaks and improvements to some services are here, and still no ridacard option sadly, I still have faith but obviously Lothian still seem hellbent on taking over all of West Lothian

So that must mean whenever Phase 5 kicks in that must be when they hit Kirkliston/Linlithgow, at this point they have nowhere else to expand to. Only time will tell though!

 

[overthewater]

Plenty other places. Phrase 5 will be harthill and Fauldhouse if it actually happens. If Lothian were smart it would have gone into kirkliston when first was every 30mins but alas its back to every 15mins.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

No.. First can do deans to the shops in 15mins.. Lcb take 30mins...

I was generalising on all passengers irregardless of route or company to be fair.

 

[overthewater]

I can give you other eg where lothian travel times are poor. People don't want to go around the houses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The stigma around buses being slow is the roads clogged particularly at rush hour, however, simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone nowadays.

How old are your children?

 

[Gingerbus1991]

How old are your children?

Rather personal and seriously off topic, but Im 28, single and don’t want kids.

Whats kids got to do with buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Rather personal and seriously off topic, but Im 28, single and don’t want kids.

Whats kids got to do with buses.

Because when you say "simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone nowadays.", it really shows a lack of understanding when you're running a household. Things like arranging childcare....? Just a thought?

 

[In Focus]

So to summarise, let’s recap

Mid August 2018 (Phase 1)
Lothian Country expand their operations to West Lothian replacing the old 27/28 with their X27/X28 with a few tweaks to the route such as omitting Gorgie to speed the journey times (Good), they also introduced the 275 to Whitburn to Edinburgh Park to connect with the Tram for onwards travel to the city (Okay), Fares caused a controversial split with local commuters with some staying with First due to weekly and monthly passes with some giving Lothian a chance

End September (Phase 2)
Lothian introduce two new routes branching out to Armadale and Blackridge (furthest a Lothian service has ever been in the West), and connecting Wester Inch with Livingston Centre, overall some useful routes for locals in West Lothian.

December 1st (Phase 3)
4 months into West Lothian and they introduce the first night bus, N28 which partially mirrors the X28 except it omits Kirknewton, the X18 is also introduced offering a faster link to Edinburgh from Bathgate, Contactless is also brought on although a missed opportunity for a ridacard option

And now Phase 4

A new route connecting West Calder/Loganlea with Deans North is coming, a few tweaks and improvements to some services are here, and still no ridacard option sadly, I still have faith but obviously Lothian still seem hellbent on taking over all of West Lothian

So that must mean whenever Phase 5 kicks in that must be when they hit Kirkliston/Linlithgow, at this point they have nowhere else to expand to. Only time will tell though!

Phase 1
X27 /X28 lifted directly from First a route that had shed hundreds of thousands of pounds per year and once First had escaped the Railway linitations fron the scotrail deal they shelved it to save money , although their 15 min service was a touch over the top . Hard to see how LCB with competition from 26 26A and 23 X23 on sighthill can turn it around to be profitable.
275 Again lifted large parts of previous routes ,people of Broxburn always wanted quick service to Livingston, LCB added time to it ,although to be fair it seems to be doing quite well especially on Whitburn corridor
Phase 2
280 a direct copy of firsts 25 route only serving St Johns ,timings will always rule on this route and whichever bus turns up will generally scoop the pot , only downside for LCB is any money made during day will be lost at night running empty buses.
287
A dead Duck, wrong route no chance of success.
Phase 3
X18 Another service that will keep getting altered and it will never make money ,said at the time it will never compete with train and nothing I have seen has altered my opinion ,also the person who suggested using Gardenrs lane and up to Wester Inch must have been drunk as that's is absolute madness .
Phase 4
281 *another old smt number *Obviously seen 26 picking up numbers in Livingston and thought oh we shall duplicate that and see if we can make a shilling ,again though all it will do is dilute passengers and most will run empty as they duplicate 27 /28 around ladywell ,Knightsridge and Deans not sure the thinking behind that when Kirkliston would have been fresh area to tackle .
X18 altered which I think will be a common theme over next few changes to try and compete with a fantastic rail service.

Next move will be up to First to combat these changes and on and on we go.

Being told LCB new depot will be next month * but that's been said since inception, we shall see.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Because when you say "simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone nowadays.", it really shows a lack of understanding when you're running a household. Things like arranging childcare....? Just a thought?

Having kids is an option, I can’t recall anybody saying being a parent is truly easy, but if thats what responsibility you have it really is all in a days work, the only thing many parents do nowaday regarding transport is teach there kids to be car centric.

The biggest issue of Childcare in any means is usually the cost of it, not arranging it!

I feel misled as to why you bring kids or childcare into any topic on here. If parents coped with bus times and kids years ago, why can’t they now?

However, this is why I say “Anyone” nowadays, not just parents.

 

[overthewater]

Next move will be up to First to combat these changes and on and on we go.

Being told LCB new depot will be next month * but that's been said since inception, we shall see.

275 isn't fast for Broxburn passengers, ie via Pumpherston, Ladywell and Howden making its 35min trake, its half the time with First bus. Whitburn to Bathgate? who in their right mind would use the X18? 26 is the faster bus going via Birniehill. I can see the X18 going down to an hourly service with some extra peak runs and thats it, unless the plan is for this route to get all the broxburn to edinburgh passengers.

A new depot would generate alot of new overhead, and I can see them keep longstone for the time being.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Phase 1
X27 /X28 lifted directly from First a route that had shed hundreds of thousands of pounds per year and once First had escaped the Railway linitations fron the scotrail deal they shelved it to save money , although their 15 min service was a touch over the top . Hard to see how LCB with competition from 26 26A and 23 X23 on sighthill can turn it around to be profitable.
275 Again lifted large parts of previous routes ,people of Broxburn always wanted quick service to Livingston, LCB added time to it ,although to be fair it seems to be doing quite well especially on Whitburn corridor
Phase 2
280 a direct copy of firsts 25 route only serving St Johns ,timings will always rule on this route and whichever bus turns up will generally scoop the pot , only downside for LCB is any money made during day will be lost at night running empty buses.
287
A dead Duck, wrong route no chance of success.
Phase 3
X18 Another service that will keep getting altered and it will never make money ,said at the time it will never compete with train and nothing I have seen has altered my opinion ,also the person who suggested using Gardenrs lane and up to Wester Inch must have been drunk as that's is absolute madness .
Phase 4
281 *another old smt number *Obviously seen 26 picking up numbers in Livingston and thought oh we shall duplicate that and see if we can make a shilling ,again though all it will do is dilute passengers and most will run empty as they duplicate 27 /28 around ladywell ,Knightsridge and Deans not sure the thinking behind that when Kirkliston would have been fresh area to tackle .
X18 altered which I think will be a common theme over next few changes to try and compete with a fantastic rail service.

Next move will be up to First to combat these changes and on and on we go.

Being told LCB new depot will be next month * but that's been said since inception, we shall see.

The new depot, This should help same them money on dead mileage at least, by doin this there certainly not leaving any time soon.

 

[In Focus]

275 isn't fast for Broxburn passengers, ie via Pumpherston, Ladywell and Howden making its 35min trake,

My point exactly for years people of Broxburn stated they wanted a direct bus to Livingston missing out Pumphy ,Craigshill etc and LCB done exact opposite taking it longer .

 

[In Focus]

The new depot, This should help same them money on dead mileage at least, by doin this there certainly not leaving any time soon.

Yes said for a while that would be a signal of intent .
Dead mileage must be absolutely killing them just now .

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Having kids is an option, I can’t recall anybody saying being a parent is truly easy, but if thats what responsibility you have it really is all in a days work, the only thing many parents do nowaday regarding transport is teach there kids to be car centric.

The biggest issue of Childcare in any means is usually the cost of it, not arranging it!

I feel misled as to why you bring kids or childcare into any topic on here. If parents coped with bus times and kids years ago, why can’t they now?

However, this is why I say “Anyone” nowadays, not just parents.

You just don’t get it, do you? A real lack of insight and empathy.

When you say “simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone” - that includes parents and you only have to see the impact on traffic in school holidays to understand why it’s important!

For many people, the cost of childcare IS the reason and if you haven’t the money, then you’re unable to arrange. So you can’t drop your child off at a childminder or pre-school, or the reverse at the end of the day. You’re tied to the peaks.

Kids are a choice and most people weigh up the issues but at the end, most people who want to be parents do so for emotional reasons that you may struggle to appreciate.

As for why things are different now as to the past? Once upon a time, there wasn’t the clamour for women to be in work, having careers but were stay at home housewives - the percentage of women employed has gone from 51% to 71% in 40 years. There are also a range of other social changes (length of working week, housing and planning strategy) etc.

Anyhow, we’re heading off topic so will stop there.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

You just don’t get it, do you? A real lack of insight and empathy.

When you say “simply planning your journey a little earlier seems to be an incapability for anyone” - that includes parents and you only have to see the impact on traffic in school holidays to understand why it’s important!

For many people, the cost of childcare IS the reason and if you haven’t the money, then you’re unable to arrange. So you can’t drop your child off at a childminder or pre-school, or the reverse at the end of the day. You’re tied to the peaks.

Kids are a choice and most people weigh up the issues but at the end, most people who want to be parents do so for emotional reasons that you may struggle to appreciate.

As for why things are different now as to the past? Once upon a time, there wasn’t the clamour for women to be in work, having careers but were stay at home housewives - the percentage of women employed has gone from 51% to 71% in 40 years. There are also a range of other social changes (length of working week, housing and planning strategy) etc.

Anyhow, we’re heading off topic so will stop there.

You must have a complex about family life.

Buses can’t be situated solely around that of working mothers and there kids...

Yes said for a while that would be a signal of intent .
Dead mileage must be absolutely killing them just now .

of course it should also take the pressure of the yard at Longstone, before LCB made an appearance in west lothian longstone depot was already very busy at shunting times.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

For LCB to get its base in Livi somewhere, it would send a direct message to First that LCB are here to stay and to get used to it. Slightly surprised that they have not planned a travel shop somewhere in the centre though. It would come at a financial cost however but in the long run I can see it working, IF, they get the routes fixed and tickets sorted (give pax what they want in terms of weekly/monthly tickets). Even if they reduced everything by 20p v First, it might start a bigger bus war.

 

[overthewater]

For LCB to get its base in Livi somewhere, it would send a direct message to First that LCB are here to stay and to get used to it. Slightly surprised that they have not planned a travel shop somewhere in the centre though. It would come at a financial cost however but in the long run I can see it working, IF, they get the routes fixed and tickets sorted (give pax what they want in terms of weekly/monthly tickets). Even if they reduced everything by 20p v First, it might start a bigger bus war.

THere is a travel shop coming... Cough... the newer side is where the smart money is going.....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You must have a complex about family life.

Buses can’t be situated solely around that of working mothers and there kids....

No I don’t - it’s called EMPATHY. The ability to understand why other people make the decisions they do.

Understand that and you might get why people drive, and why they do so at rush hour.

 

[LiviCrazy]

A route I’m surprised hasn’t been brought back by anyone is the old 800 on the original Passenger Travel route. On the hourly frequency of Passenger this was a very popular route, it was quick too. Stepend ran it for a bit till they lost their licence.

 

[In Focus]

For LCB to get its base in Livi somewhere, it would send a direct message to First that LCB are here to stay and to get used to it. Slightly surprised that they have not planned a travel shop somewhere in the centre though. It would come at a financial cost however but in the long run I can see it working, IF, they get the routes fixed and tickets sorted (give pax what they want in terms of weekly/monthly tickets). Even if they reduced everything by 20p v First, it might start a bigger bus war.

Whole lot of "if " in there , cost of a retail unit in Livingston would far outweigh the benefits ,once again mistaking West Lothian for a mini Edinburgh is a massive error.
With a new depot comes added cost to an already bulging losses column ,maybe they are awaiting the summer influx of tourists or the West Lothian festival,
By "routes fixed" and "weekly /monthly tickets fixed do you mean just duplicate what First do ? That's not very original though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Whole lot of "if " in there , cost of a retail unit in Livingston would far outweigh the benefits ,once again mistaking West Lothian for a mini Edinburgh is a massive error.

With a new depot comes added cost to an already bulging losses column ,maybe they are awaiting the summer influx of tourists or the West Lothian festival,
By "routes fixed" and "weekly /monthly tickets fixed do you mean just duplicate what First do ? That's not very original though.

I’m sure they’ve factored in these costs.

Two different strategies - it’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

 

[In Focus]

​

I’m sure they’ve factored in these costs.

Two different strategies - it’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Not the numbers running about on buses they haven't, so you have to guess someone is backing it ,I wonder who ?

 

[overthewater]

You lot a smarter than this, its not a unit....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not the numbers running about on buses they haven't, so you have to guess someone is backing it ,I wonder who ?

It’s being financed by the profits from the other operations?

I’m sure they also didn’t budget for full buses from the start. What level of patronage/revenue they have budgeted for, we can only guess.

 

[In Focus]

You lot a smarter than this, its not a unit....

Is it the new travel adviser? Walking around the centre flogging tickets and taking the complaints