West Lothian buses

[Rothy]

No I don’t - it’s called EMPATHY. The ability to understand why other people make the decisions they do.

Understand that and you might get why people drive, and why they do so at rush hour.

Well everyone's got some excuse why they claim they have to drive and that's just another one really. I know people who have raise children singlehandedly without a car and they're not loaded with pots of cash to spend on childcare. It's just most people if they have the option of driving are too lazy to do anything else.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well everyone's got some excuse why they claim they have to drive and that's just another one really. I know people who have raise children singlehandedly without a car and they're not loaded with pots of cash to spend on childcare. It's just most people if they have the option of driving are too lazy to do anything else.

I don't think everyone has got a legitimate reason why they have to use a car, but many people do. It is those people who could do without but don't where the issue is, and yes, I fully agree that everyone can always come up with a reason why they shouldn't forego their car.

However, the question was why can't people get up earlier and not clog the roads up. That's the reason why.

Getting back on topic, you have places like Livingston that, in common with many new towns, were built with the car as the primary transport source.

 

[smtglasgow]

With First transferring some Gemini out of the area, how many West Lothian services (both First and LCB) actually need double-deckers? Only service I can remember ever seeing with a decent (60+) load was the old 800 (although i'm not in Livi that often). Even at peak times the Edinburgh runs seem OK with Streetlites.

 

[tbtc]

X18 Another service that will keep getting altered and it will never make money ,said at the time it will never compete with train and nothing I have seen has altered my opinion

Lothian seem capable of running buses from Dalmeney/ Dunbar/ North Berwick etc into central Edinburgh despite the quicker rail journeys - Stagecoach seem to make money on taking people from Kirkcaldy/ Dunfermline etc into central Edinburgh despite the quicker rail journeys - surely the Bathgate market is big enough (compared to, say, Dunbar)?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Plenty other places. Phrase 5 will be harthill and Fauldhouse if it actually happens. If Lothian were smart it would have gone into kirkliston when first was every 30mins but alas its back to every 15mins.

Yeah I can agree with you on that, Missing out Kirkliston was definitely a dun’goof move on their part

A new depot would generate alot of new overhead, and I can see them keep longstone for the time being.

Since the N28 is replacing the 109 it would be logical to share Longstone with LCB, infant when LCB move to Livingston does it make sense to move the 43 from central? unless it was tweaked or extended but I highly doubt that will happen

Whitburn to Bathgate? who in their right mind would use the X18?

Well folk who want to travel from Whitburn to Bathgate of course and for those who do enjoy using LCB it would probably benefit those.

For LCB to get its base in Livi somewhere, it would send a direct message to First that LCB are here to stay and to get used to it. Slightly surprised that they have not planned a travel shop somewhere in the centre though. It would come at a financial cost however but in the long run I can see it working, IF, they get the routes fixed and tickets sorted (give pax what they want in terms of weekly/monthly tickets). Even if they reduced everything by 20p v First, it might start a bigger bus war.

Well when folk were sure LCB were going to pull out early they’ve dug themselves quite deep with securing a depot, never say never, all these changes feel like a wager against first, I highly doubt they’ll lower their single or dayticket fares, especially since it was highly inspired by East Coast Buses, maybe they could get away with altering the bundle prices and whenever they do release a weekly or monthly pass (IF they do) they would most likely make it a cheaper option to win over passangers, that’s really the only thing that LCB a need to really do, is it honestly so hard to sell a piece of plastic so folk can have better travel options?

By "routes fixed" and "weekly /monthly tickets fixed do you mean just duplicate what First do ? That's not very original though.

I mean sure the concepts not original, but if done right then sure folk will be happy enough!

 

[In Focus]

With First transferring some Gemini out of the area, how many West Lothian services (both First and LCB) actually need double-deckers? Only service I can remember ever seeing with a decent (60+) load was the old 800 (although i'm not in Livi that often). Even at peak times the Edinburgh runs seem OK with Streetlites.

None .

 

[MrBurnz]

Regarding the new depot in Livingston, Have LCB looked at the now closed Jabil Factory in Oakbank industrial estate?
That is an impressive size inside & outside & I am speaking from personal experience regarding the size & scope of that building.
You most definitely could get quite a lot of buses parked there, both inside & out.

Worth a look surely,

 

[In Focus]

Regarding the new depot in Livingston, Have LCB looked at the now closed Jabil Factory in Oakbank industrial estate?
That is an impressive size inside & outside & I am speaking from personal experience regarding the size & scope of that building.
You most definitely could get quite a lot of buses parked there, both inside & out.

Worth a look surely,

There are vacant buildings and land in numerous locations around the Livingston area that would suit , the fittijg of Fuel tanks, Bus wash,pits etc would be a cost if not already in place though .

 

[Weemidi135]

Lol ,I knew somebody would bite
Do West Lothian council not have a 4% stak
e in Lothian?
I will let you know if I get my 4% reduction though

1% stake

 

[Weemidi135]

There are vacant buildings and land in numerous locations around the Livingston area that would suit , the fittijg of Fuel tanks, Bus wash,pits etc would be a cost if not already in place though .

It’s somewhere that already has most of this ready to go

 

[In Focus]

Th

1% stake

I thought the 3 minority shareholder heldvthe other 9% that Lothian didn't...

 

[In Focus]

It’s somewhere that already has most of this ready to go

Where is that ?

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Where is that ?

Maybe a council yard in deans ? Is the recycling place closed there ?

 

[alangla]

It’s somewhere that already has most of this ready to go

Lidl are relocating their depot, aren’t they? (Guesswork, no specific information)

 

[alchemy]

Lidl are relocating their depot, aren’t they? (Guesswork, no specific information)

There have been at least three of the new 100 seater triaxles showing up around Newbridge on the tracker over the past few days

 

[overthewater]

There have been at least three of the new 100 seater triaxles showing up around Newbridge on the tracker over the past few days

That's because they are being kept there.

 

[In Focus]

Lidl are relocating their depot, aren’t they? (Guesswork, no specific information)

There are multiple units within West Lothian that they could have had , just wonder why they are dithering so long ...

 

[oldman]

Th
I thought the 3 minority sh areholder heldvthe other 9% that Lothian didn't...

West Lothian owns 0.4%. Edinburgh (tfe) owns 91.1%.

You could say that for every £1M Lothian lose, WL's share is £4000 so about 3p per person. For Edinburgh it's more like £2. Aren't you grateful for our generosity?

 

[In Focus]

West Lothian owns 0.4%. Edinburgh (tfe) owns 91.1%.

You could say that for every £1M Lothian lose, WL's share is £4000 so about 3p per person. For Edinburgh it's more like £2. Aren't you grateful for our generosity?

No .....

 

[scotrail158713]

Lothian seem capable of running buses from Dalmeney/ Dunbar/ North Berwick etc into central Edinburgh despite the quicker rail journeys - Stagecoach seem to make money on taking people from Kirkcaldy/ Dunfermline etc into central Edinburgh despite the quicker rail journeys - surely the Bathgate market is big enough (compared to, say, Dunbar)?

I’m not sure what it’s like in West Lothian but I know that with Dunbar and North Berwick these buses pick up passengers in the towns they go through as well as just the terminus towns. (Haddington, East Linton, Gullane, Aberlady etc)
And according to my grandparents the Stagecoach buses from Fife are dead during the day apart from OAPs.

 

[gingerheid]

The Bathgate train service is somewhat better and more convenient than the others. North Berwick isn't that frequent. Fife can be terribly overcrowded, and some of the Fife stations are in such large towns that a direct bus from a part distant to the railway station might not be less competitive in terms of convenience.

 

[smtglasgow]

The problem with running commuter buses into Edinburgh from West Lothian is the traffic. The M8 and by-pass seize up regularly, causing chaos on all the surrounding roads. Even with Scotrails well-documented woes, taking the train is the only way many can have confidence in getting to work on time (most of the time, anyway). I’ve been commuting from Bellshill to Edinburgh several days a week since September, and the crowds getting on at the West Lothian stations has been a real eye-opener – I’d no idea the Shotts line was so busy. With new trains and (hopefully) better journey times on the way, I’d expect the Shotts line to grow further, mirroring the Bathgate line’s success, so little opportunity for Lothian or anyone else to offer competitive bus services.

Whoever ends up running the buses, they’ll make their money *within* West Lothian.

 

[overthewater]

There is still a chance to make money going into Edinburgh however not central part. Trying to operate to Airport, Gyle/Edinburgh Park and one hopes Edinburgh north is the way to go. Broxburn to Edinburgh hasn't been busy in years, and you can get away with 20mins service.

 

[alchemy]

That's because they are being kept there.

I assumed that, as that whst the tracker does, thank you.
I was replying to post about possible location of depot as its was somewhere about there that 674 and friends were for a while. I wondered if the new buses were at the new depot.

 

[In Focus]

The problem with running commuter buses into Edinburgh from West Lothian is the traffic. The M8 and by-pass seize up regularly, causing chaos on all the surrounding roads. Even with Scotrails well-documented woes, taking the train is the only way many can have confidence in getting to work on time (most of the time, anyway). I’ve been commuting from Bellshill to Edinburgh several days a week since September, and the crowds getting on at the West Lothian stations has been a real eye-opener – I’d no idea the Shotts line was so busy. With new trains and (hopefully) better journey times on the way, I’d expect the Shotts line to grow further, mirroring the Bathgate line’s success, so little opportunity for Lothian or anyone else to offer competitive bus services.

Whoever ends up running the buses, they’ll make their money *within* West Lothian.

The train in Bathgate absolutely obliterated the former X1 service from Blackridge M8 Edinburgh going from 5 Double Decker Lion buses to finally 1 which was 2/3empty ,since those days the train has grown massively and added stations, it is utter folly to believe any bus service will compete with it on this corridor.

 

[Siemens Trains]

There is still a chance to make money going into Edinburgh however not central part. Trying to operate to Airport, Gyle/Edinburgh Park and one hopes Edinburgh north is the way to go. Broxburn to Edinburgh hasn't been busy in years, and you can get away with 20mins service.

Yes, that's a good point.
This isn't necessarily a fight to the death, or the kind of 'bus war' to win very profitable territory that many people on this thread seem to think. Despite several attempts, First haven't done very well with any of the routes they tried in the locations listed, nor Edinburgh city centre for that matter. On the other hand, Lothian's services tend to attract more business in these areas. Once things settle down, which might take a year or two, you may find the operators are quite complementary.

 

[In Focus]

Yes, that's a good point.
This isn't necessarily a fight to the death, or the kind of 'bus war' to win very profitable territory that many people on this thread seem to think. Despite several attempts, First haven't done very well with any of the routes they tried in the locations listed, nor Edinburgh city centre for that matter. On the other hand, Lothian's services tend to attract more business in these areas. Once things settle down, which might take a year or two, you may find the operators are quite complementary.

Said all along had the 2 operators sat down and spoken they could have sorted out a solution with LCB running the Edinburgh Corridors and First concentrating on West Lothian network and giving thier core business the full attention ,both companies could have had a piece without busting the budget on drivers and other staff , as it stands only 1 can survive at these levels .

 

[Jordan Adam]

Said all along had the 2 operators sat down and spoken they could have sorted out a solution with LCB running the Edinburgh Corridors and First concentrating on West Lothian network and giving thier core business the full attention ,both companies could have had a piece without busting the budget on drivers and other staff , as it stands only 1 can survive at these levels .

Why would First give away the main Edinburgh Corridors when it's probably the most profitable part? You can't jump in, throw your weight around and expect to be given the best goods.

 

[In Focus]

Why would First give away the main Edinburgh Corridors when it's probably the most profitable part? You can't jump in, throw your weight around and expect to be given the best goods.

Far from it ,it's a moneypit and one first could easily have lived without .
The amount of times buses were late in Livingston due to hold ups in Edinburgh was ridiculous and one of the main reasons passengers got frustrated with First in West Lothian .
I agree their aggressive tactics are repulsive and due to egos a compromise would never be reached but as far as solutions went it was only one possible .

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Said all along had the 2 operators sat down and spoken they could have sorted out a solution with LCB running the Edinburgh Corridors and First concentrating on West Lothian network and giving thier core business the full attention ,both companies could have had a piece without busting the budget on drivers and other staff , as it stands only 1 can survive at these levels .

Deregulation was supposed to bring about a higher level of competition and cheaper fare prices, the opposite is actually true hence why multiple operators created a nessessity for the "Tripper Ticket" in Glasgow.

Essentially it still doesn't work in a modern world where multiple operators clamber for superiority.

This is on part where I feel regulation would've prevented lothians pushing in on West Lothian.