West Lothian buses

[alchemy]

It wouldn't be a " win win" in West Lothian though and being voted "best bus company" in such a limited area isn't really an achievement, different market in different areas and not so easy to cover up deficiencies when out in other more remote areas.
And not having the field of play all to yourself also raises issues that Lothian haven't had to deal with previously.

UK a small area?

 

[Jordan Adam]

UK a small area?

If i'm right in thinking that award in question only covers Scotland...

https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2018/06/top-award-for-lothian/

 

[In Focus]

UK a small area?

Lothian operate in every town and city in UK?
Who knew ?

 

[LiviCrazy]

Especially if Lothian take over completly.
Given thst first gave little thought to their customers in East and Midlothian and the Borders, Lothian, being voted one of the best bus companies in the country for a number of years, taking over would indeed be win win.

I’m curious as to your definition of “win win”. We’d be paying more for older buses, less frequent and slower routes. Definitely not my definition. Going by my daily commutes, the 23/X23 are a lot busier than the old 27/28 routes before the changes so people are not exactly abandoning First.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Bus 1047 having a bit of trouble this evening. Big traffic jam at the West End which appeared to be down to this bus breaking down. It has now pulled over in Princes Street away from the junction with Charlotte Square which was causing the hold up. From a distance it looked like smoke was being produced but I cannot be sure of that.

 

[alchemy]

Lothian operate in every town and city in UK?
Who knew ?

I am fully aware of where Lothian operate.
Voted on more than occasion bus operator of the year in the uk, also best city operator and best in Scotland 2018
These are nstiomal awards and not, repeat not anything at all to do with operating area.
Google lothian bus awards if you wish.

 

[overthewater]

Especially if Lothian take over completly.
Given thst first gave little thought to their customers in East and Midlothian and the Borders, Lothian, being voted one of the best bus companies in the country for a number of years, taking over would indeed be win win.

No, my post was referring to first who clearly have the cheaper tickets. Lothian still has poor value even before prices cuts kick in.

 

[In Focus]

I am fully aware of where Lothian operate.
Voted on more than occasion bus operator of the year in the uk, also best city operator and best in Scotland 2018
These are nstiomal awards and not, repeat not anything at all to do with operating area.
Google lothian bus awards if you wish.

I once got voted best writer in my class it didn't make me an author and haveyou seen some of the **** that wins Oscar's?
Aye if the beholder these "awards" flooding a city with no competition and a budget aided by tax payers money is hardly award winning stuff but obviously somebody thinks it's is.
I recall EM Horsburgh winning an award a few years ago ...

 

[Jordan Adam]

I once got voted best writer in my class it didn't make me an author and have you seen some of the **** that wins Oscar's?
Aye if the beholder these "awards" flooding a city with no competition and a budget aided by tax payers money is hardly award winning stuff but obviously somebody thinks it's is.
I recall EM Horsburgh winning an award a few years ago ...

Much like the Oscar's i wouldn't be surprised if the winner paid for the award.

Did EM win the award for "Cowboy of the Country"?

Watch the comments come racing in...

 

[Driver362]

Fact 1:Lothian are a good operator of public service vehicles :fact2 all operators buses can have mechanical trouble! That is unless my eyes deceive me ! . Now are we grown ups or what reporting bus x has broken down come on ? , if we're going down that path why don't you post some of your employers awards .then we can mock them with petty jibes and that fantastic word used by TGW "whatabouterry" and remember for youse guys who still work for the other co ,I had over 10 years with The other co and I'm pretty sure if they had won operator of the year it wouldn't be Mickey Mouse !!

 

[Jordan Adam]

Fact 1:Lothian are a good operator of public service vehicles :fact2 all operators buses can have mechanical trouble! That is unless my eyes deceive me ! . Now are we grown ups or what reporting bus x has broken down come on ? , if we're going down that path why don't you post some of your employers awards .then we can mock them with petty jibes and that fantastic word used by TGW "whatabouterry" and remember for youse guys who still work for the other co ,I had over 10 years with The other co and I'm pretty sure if they had won operator of the year it wouldn't be Mickey Mouse !!

Literally one person posted that 1047 appeared to be in a little bit of bother ... Lothian are good at operating their city services, they have a superb, comprehensive, good value, modern network. However many of the management choices in recent times have been very questionable to say the least, they've not done a great job at entering the WL market and it seems like the bulk of drivers are not that pleased with the general atmosphere either.

It's somewhat hard to reply to your post without sounding rude, however as you work for one of the operators you do appear to have a slight bias towards them (as can be backed up by looking at your previous posts on this and other threads).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

C’mon everyone.

Think we should all recognise that, despite the partisan allegiances on either side, you can’t really suggest that Lothian aren’t a good operator. In fact, look at the nominees for top city operators at UKBA and they are in good company: Lothian Buses; National Express West Midlands; Nottingham City Transport; Plymouth Citybus; Stagecoach Manchester; and Stagecoach Merseyside. For the Shire operator, Go South Coast; Metrobus; Oxford Bus Company; Reading Buses; and Stagecoach East Scotland - speaking from my limited experience, they’re all decent firms. If First South Yorkshire was there, I’d suggest something was amiss

That’s not to say that they (or the other nominees) are perfect and I confess that the differing strategies of both LB and First are interesting in their different ways. Who will finally succeed? It’s a compelling watch. A battle between a high stakes investment from LB or a rear guard action from First?

We shall watch with interest!

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Fact 1:Lothian are a good operator of public service vehicles :fact2 all operators buses can have mechanical trouble! That is unless my eyes deceive me ! . Now are we grown ups or what reporting bus x has broken down come on ? , if we're going down that path why don't you post some of your employers awards .then we can mock them with petty jibes and that fantastic word used by TGW "whatabouterry" and remember for youse guys who still work for the other co ,I had over 10 years with The other co and I'm pretty sure if they had won operator of the year it wouldn't be Mickey Mouse !!

I am a Lothian Buses user and big fan of them.

Just reported a fact that a bus had broken down and was causing a bit of a problem with the traffic flow due to the location of the breakdown.

I definitely wasn't attacking them.

 

[In Focus]

C’mon everyone.

Think we should all recognise that, despite the partisan allegiances on either side, you can’t really suggest that Lothian aren’t a good operator. In fact, look at the nominees for top city operators at UKBA and they are in good company: Lothian Buses; National Express West Midlands; Nottingham City Transport; Plymouth Citybus; Stagecoach Manchester; and Stagecoach Merseyside. For the Shire operator, Go South Coast; Metrobus; Oxford Bus Company; Reading Buses; and Stagecoach East Scotland - speaking from my limited experience, they’re all decent firms. If First South Yorkshire was there, I’d suggest something was amiss

That’s not to say that they (or the other nominees) are perfect and I confess that the differing strategies of both LB and First are interesting in their different ways. Who will finally succeed? It’s a compelling watch. A battle between a high stakes investment from LB or a rear guard action from First?

We shall watch with interest!

I don't think anyone said they don't do the public service very well.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't think anyone said they don't do the public service very well.

Saying something like....

being voted "best bus company" in such a limited area isn't really an achievement

...does sound like a denigration of receiving an award?

I’m not convinced that LB’s strategy will win out in the end. I can’t imagine that they haven’t budgeted for a loss in the short to medium term with all the set up costs and ongoing competition. However, it really does turn on how big any losses are and the appetite for First to sustain losses themselves. Both sides have the wherewithal to dig in. LB have made a high stakes bid, investment is continuing and they won’t wish to walk away. Similarly, First can’t simply yield or who knows where it ends and certainly, recent experience elsewhere indicates that they won’t simply roll over.

It’s that dynamic that really makes this so intriguing. It would perhaps have been more likely to see a gradual erosion and undermining of the West Lothian business as Stagecoach did in Northampton. Instead LB have gone “all in” and it now becomes a matter of principle for both firms.

 

[In Focus]

Saying something like....



...does sound like a denigration of receiving an award?

I’m not convinced that LB’s strategy will win out in the end. I can’t imagine that they haven’t budgeted for a loss in the short to medium term with all the set up costs and ongoing competition. However, it really does turn on how big any losses are and the appetite for First to sustain losses themselves. Both sides have the wherewithal to dig in. LB have made a high stakes bid, investment is continuing and they won’t wish to walk away. Similarly, First can’t simply yield or who knows where it ends and certainly, recent experience elsewhere indicates that they won’t simply roll over.

It’s that dynamic that really makes this so intriguing. It would perhaps have been more likely to see a gradual erosion and undermining of the West Lothian business as Stagecoach did in Northampton. Instead LB have gone “all in” and it now becomes a matter of principle for both firms.

Awards are what they are like I said, but you chose to edit only a small part of my reply !!
Lothian run a good service so do many other companies a handful of people decide who gets an award, means not a lot really though.
First won an award for 27/28 route and withdrew it a matter of months later As it was heamoraging money

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Awards are what they are like I said, but you chose to edit only a small part of my reply !!
Lothian run a good service so do many other companies a handful of people decide who gets an award, means not a lot really though.
First won an award for 27/28 route and withdrew it a matter of months later As it was heamoraging money

I edited it only for brevity.

Yes, you can always point to the exception or outlier but in general, awards are generally given to the best operators so they are a fair indication of who's good and who isn't. As I said, if they were giving First South Yorkshire a best operator award, then I'd agree awards are not a fair representation. They haven't, and generally they are

 

[In Focus]

Awards for doing what your being paid to do and provide ?
I liken that to giving a Surgeon an award everytime he performs an operation or a policeman an award for making an arrest!
Like your appraisal of First Yorkshire I became a major sceptic after EM Horsburgh were awarded one
However we shall agree to disagree on merits of Awards and back slapping.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Awards for doing what your being paid to do and provide ?
I liken that to giving a Surgeon an award everytime he performs an operation or a policeman an award for making an arrest!
Like your appraisal of First Yorkshire I became a major sceptic after EM Horsburgh were awarded one
However we shall agree to disagree on merits of Awards and back slapping.

Basically you're against awards 'cos people should just do what they're supposed to do? Policemen do get commendations, you know

Those Sundays must just fly by when you get back from the Free Presbyterian Church

 

[In Focus]

Basically you're against awards 'cos people should just do what they're supposed to do? Policemen do get commendations, you know

Those Sundays must just fly by when you get back from the Free Presbyterian Church

I'm against awards As they are just an opinion of a few people , I like Boxer dogs but some idiot picks a Poodle to win Crufts ,that's their opinion on sure millions would disagree .
No idea about religion, Sunday's are more a day of recovery than any religious nonsense.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think maybe this forum got a little off topic slightly, I mean awards and religion, maybe let’s dial it back to West Lothian, LCB and First

Let’s do less attacking and bashing and more talk about our local bus news, First reducing their day tickets do show they are definitely determined to reign dominance in West Lothian, something I don’t see Lothian doing at all unfortunately, it’s like a game of chess, what move will Lothian make?

Also I just learned how to use emojis on here, yay me

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First reducing their day tickets do show they are definitely determined to reign dominance in West Lothian, something I don’t see Lothian doing at all unfortunately, it’s like a game of chess, what move will Lothian make?

The point I was making earlier. They are each making different moves with different strategies - we shall see what happens... will it be stalemate?

 

[Driver362]

Surely then in the medium to long term , the buying of new yard ,new buses etc is an indication of there staying put . However I as an employee sometimes wonder if the TGW 's and that of others on this forum's opinions that Lothian may not win through may come true as I've consistently said I would like to see more bums on seats,share numbers are increasing but I'd like more . There are areas I see first do well and others not so welllike I've also said as long as we all got jobs at the end then great , but obviously I would like that to be team green ,balanced opinion is all I'm looking for

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Surely then in the medium to long term , the buying of new yard ,new buses etc is an indication of there staying put . However I as an employee sometimes wonder if the TGW 's and that of others on this forum's opinions that Lothian may not win through may come true as I've consistently said I would like to see more bums on seats,share numbers are increasing but I'd like more . There are areas I see first do well and others not so welllike I've also said as long as we all got jobs at the end then great , but obviously I would like that to be team green ,balanced opinion is all I'm looking for

Hang on - I've not said that Lothian will win or lose. What I have said is that Lothian are obviously investing - it is a bold move. First will attempt to strangle and stifle the opposition, not by some equally bold move into Edinburgh but by looking to smother LCB but minimising their investment/losses.

As I've said on a number of occasions, both parties are pursuing different strategies and it'll be interesting to see how things pan out. Clear?

 

[Driver362]

Literally one person posted that 1047 appeared to be in a little bit of bother ... Lothian are good at operating their city services, they have a superb, comprehensive, good value, modern network. However many of the management choices in recent times have been very questionable to say the least, they've not done a great job at entering the WL market and it seems like the bulk of drivers are not that pleased with the general atmosphere either.

It's somewhat hard to reply to your post without sounding rude, however as you work for one of the operators you do appear to have a slight bias towards them (as can be backed up by looking at your previous posts on this and other threads).

I give up I realy do pot and kettle spring to mind but anyway re read some of your own post I thought I was adding balance to a,less than favourable review of my employer

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I posted this on the main Lothian thread but it really does look like a bus war is heading for Edinburgh (repeating the post here as it involves LCB too).

It looks like a bus war is heading back to the city. I can't copy n paste from that site as they don't let me copy but I wonder what routes they'd actually do. Unsure how they could be faster than Lothian too but I guess if many passengers already have a ridacard, they'd have to wait on a LB service so First would leave the stop faster.

https://www.swd.media/news/scotland...us-wars-set-to-return-to-the-capital-1-14348/

I'm not sure tbh that they'd win a war with Lothian. I assume they will drive buses in from Livingston daily as they have no depot in Edinburgh, and they got rid of the depot at Westfield (I think).

Questions I have -
Where are they getting the extra drivers for this?
Where are they getting the extra buses for this?
Where are they going to get a depot (clear if this is a serious attempt, they'd need a depot)?

I assume they will lower their price but it would need to be drastic but would it even be sustainable for them?

I wonder what Lothian will do in retaliation if this is true.

 

[In Focus]

I posted this on the main Lothian thread but it really does look like a bus war is heading for Edinburgh (repeating the post here as it involves LCB too).

It looks like a bus war is heading back to the city. I can't copy n paste from that site as they don't let me copy but I wonder what routes they'd actually do. Unsure how they could be faster than Lothian too but I guess if many passengers already have a ridacard, they'd have to wait on a LB service so First would leave the stop faster.

https://www.swd.media/news/scotland...us-wars-set-to-return-to-the-capital-1-14348/

I'm not sure tbh that they'd win a war with Lothian. I assume they will drive buses in from Livingston daily as they have no depot in Edinburgh, and they got rid of the depot at Westfield (I think).

Questions I have -
Where are they getting the extra drivers for this?
Where are they getting the extra buses for this?
Where are they going to get a depot (clear if this is a serious attempt, they'd need a depot)?

I assume they will lower their price but it would need to be drastic but would it even be sustainable for them?

I wonder what Lothian will do in retaliation if this is true.

The main targetted aread will be Airport to Edinburgh with 600 ,Balerno Corridor and lowering fares on the 2 corridors already operated Corstorphine and Sighthill .
First may not take on Lothian but they will for sure take more money than LCB are taking in West Lothian that's for sure .

 

[overthewater]

A copy of the 25, would still be a better bet.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I posted this on the main Lothian thread but it really does look like a bus war is heading for Edinburgh (repeating the post here as it involves LCB too).

It looks like a bus war is heading back to the city. I can't copy n paste from that site as they don't let me copy but I wonder what routes they'd actually do. Unsure how they could be faster than Lothian too but I guess if many passengers already have a ridacard, they'd have to wait on a LB service so First would leave the stop faster.

https://www.swd.media/news/scotland...us-wars-set-to-return-to-the-capital-1-14348/

I'm not sure tbh that they'd win a war with Lothian. I assume they will drive buses in from Livingston daily as they have no depot in Edinburgh, and they got rid of the depot at Westfield (I think).

Questions I have -
Where are they getting the extra drivers for this?
Where are they getting the extra buses for this?
Where are they going to get a depot (clear if this is a serious attempt, they'd need a depot)?

I assume they will lower their price but it would need to be drastic but would it even be sustainable for them?

I wonder what Lothian will do in retaliation if this is true.

I'd wait until First do an official announcement before believing this will happen. It's not the move i'd personally make, however in the long run it could be a good thing as Lothian do have a monopoly over Edinburgh, and a city of it's size really should have two major operators at the very least. To me it would make more sense to flood West Lothian with loads of buses and low fares.

Drivers & Buses will probably come from the school work which they're about to get rid of. Livingston should have space for some additional buses.

The main targetted aread will be Airport to Edinburgh with 600 ,Balerno Corridor and lowering fares on the 2 corridors already operated Corstorphine and Sighthill .
First may not take on Lothian but they will for sure take more money than LCB are taking in West Lothian that's for sure .

This makes the most sense to me. I think the best idea would be to increase their coverage of West Lothian and bring in new links from key locations in Edinburgh to Livingston.

 

[overthewater]

I'd wait until First do an official announcement before believing this will happen. It's not the move i'd personally make, however in the long run it could be a good thing as Lothian do have a monopoly over Edinburgh, and a city of it's size really should have two major operators at the very least. To me it would make more sense to flood West Lothian with loads of buses and low fares.

Drivers & Buses will probably come from the school work which they're about to get rid of. Livingston should have space for some additional buses.

This makes the most sense to me. I think the best idea would be to increase their coverage of West Lothian and bring in new links from key locations in Edinburgh to Livingston.

It could be a bluff, to get Lothian attention, on the matter. There is no point Flooding West Lothian with any more buses, it would be a waste of time having a bus every 5mins to Bathgate, yet if there were to place more buses heading into Edinburgh and picked up alot of Student traffic that would have a better chance, Maybe were get edinburgh North bus back?

Maybe Lothian should stop wasting its money and just to Giles and write a blank cheque................................