West Lothian buses

[Tom B]

Would someone care to explain what MUDFA means?

It was the name given to the works to divert services prior to laying tram track, I think it stood for Multi Utility Diversion somethingorother.

As a major part of the city was shut down, and diversions and delays were extensive, a few buses were put on standby at strategic points to be able to fill in gaps in the service straight away.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

But thats where your wrong jordan . The ex arriva ones are geared for motorway work and not city or semi rural work . They dont drop into top until a indicated 55mph and when they do the revs drop of a lot ,so much so that the slightest incline has them dropping down gears on the motorway. Granted i haven't driven the 04 plate B7rle's yet but my experience on the voith box'd B9 tl we have on loan from centrals lc fleet certainly doesn't do it and as such , personaly speaking from a drivers point of view its a more relaxing drive . As always views are subjective would be interested to hear the basis of your views on older B7rles with the voith box ? The bus im in about will accelarate quickly to 30mph in two shifts the zf equivalent 3 sometimes 4 shifts its bloody annoying !

The properties of gearboxes vary differently yes.

RPM at a cruise isn't just dictated by the gearbox ratios but also the drive xle diff ratio and the wheel size.

The larger the tire diameter the lower the RPM, The lower a ratio number also brings RPM down.

In most cases the ZF Ecolife 6th gear has a 0.61 ratio verses the latest Voith units which has a 0.70 4th gear ratio, At a cruise the ZF usually sits around 300rpm lower which in the longer may slightly lower fuel economy but will also help the engine last longer if used on back to back motorway service.

The ZF is a far better option if your planning using a vehicle in places where there are steep hills as the close ratio spacing of the ZF means it shouldnt have to rev as high to get into the next gear thus keeping rpm far more even which in turn helps an engine stay in its peak torque band, even though many drivers don't like the way the Ecolife/Ecomat manages 3-4 different gear changes by 20 mph in actual fact this means when your actually on the move a close-ratiod unit like the Ecolife should actually have the ability to better choose ratios for the given speed as it simply has more gears, of course the software controlling the gearbox has to be adept as well, I'd still go for the ZF units.

Voith's latest DIWA.6 in particular has a bad tendency to "hunt" for gears given that it only has 4 of them which are spaced a fair amount apart, it can be particularly noticeable at that 20-30 speed, Voiths latest units definitely have a much better retarder set up than those of earlier 3E or 5E DIWA's.

In the case of the 04 B7RLEs with ther Voith units there very sluggish to build power. A standstill, But would say most of that is simply turbo lag before 1200rpm where there peak torque comes in.

 

[In Focus]

Im not an enthusiast and i gave the same answer . We both work for lothian . At a meeting the other night with the brass for employees we were told how we had done to date where we are heading etc and any future phases imparted to us were told to keep to ourselfs . So im hardly going to come on here and spill my guts as it were . Hope this answers your question?

Highly unlikely management are going to send out anything other than positive messages to employees and as in many cases the time employees find out Is when the decisions have been made .

 

[Driver362]

You are probably correct . However i was only trying to set the scene . The point was any future expansion plans that were imparted to us ?, we were told to keep keep to ourself .. trust me ive been in the game long enough to have figured that out . But im pretty sure if you are at similar meetings your not going to be on here spiling everything prior to it being made public ?

 

[Train368]

Will the new coaches go via Armadale?

 

[OmniCity999]

Will the new coaches go via Armadale?

Nit at liberty to discuss. They are for a new route.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Nit at liberty to discuss. They are for a new route.

Why reply then? And they can't be for a new route if they are "entering service in May" as first stated. It's quiet evident we won't be seeing them in use until closer to July if that is the case.

 

[OmniCity999]

Why reply then? And they can't be for a new route if they are "entering service in May" as first stated. It's quiet evident we won't be seeing them in use until closer to July if that is the case.

Because someone asked? So I gave them an answer? Simply, I'm not allowed to discuss their future. I can post as much aw I've posted, but any more would see me in trouble.

They may see service on other routes soon but they are intended for their own route. Or so I'm told... they have their own specific branding as such. The X17 has just started and neither that, the X18, X27 or X28 arent branded as "Green Arrow Express.

When they were first dreamt up, they were to be dedicated to a specific route, but again I'm not allowed to say.

I can only tell you as much as I'm allowed.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

https://lothiancountry.co.uk/announcing-our-exciting-new-express-services-green-arrow/

Introducing our exciting new express services – Green Arrow


We’re excited to announce the much anticipated routes for our new Green Arrow express operation for West Lothian and Edinburgh which will start on Sunday 30 June.

Operated with custom built 49-seat coaches, the two new routes from Linlithgow and Bathgate will provide residents and commuters with a direct express coach service to and from Edinburgh’s West End.

The new routes will be as follows:

EX1: Bathgate Town Centre, Boghall, DIRECT VIA M8, RBS Gogarburn, Maybury, Haymarket and The Exchange every 30 minutes, Monday to Saturday and hourly on a Sunday

EX2: Linlithgow Bridge, Linlithgow Town Centre, Springfield, DIRECT VIA M9, RBS Gogarburn, Maybury, Haymarket, and The Exchange every 30 minutes, Monday to Saturday and hourly on a Sunday

Nigel Serafini, Commercial Director, said:

We are fully committed to investing in and developing the public transport offering in West Lothian and building new connections within the area and into Edinburgh. We want to promote bus travel as a great solution to both sustainable and active travel journeys, encouraging people out of cars and onto public transport, thus reducing congestion and even more importantly improving air quality and the impact on climate change.

We continue to see significant growth across our network in West Lothian since its launch in August last year and the introduction of these direct express coach services from Linlithgow and Bathgate will considerably enhance the offering for these communities and the greener options available for travel.

Green Arrow will have a bespoke and dedicated team of drivers. The operation will run with a fleet of eight coaches which have been custom built in the UK by Plaxton, part of Alexander Dennis Limited, to exceed customer expectations. The coaches have an innovative new forward facing wheelchair bay and have been fitted with full coach seating, Wi-Fi, USB charging, mood lighting and audio-visual stop announcements, offering a fantastic customer experience.

We will be holding roadshows in Linlithgow on Saturday 15 June and Bathgate on Saturday 22 June to give you the chance to find out more about these new services and see our new vehicles before they go into service.

Information on fares will be available in the coming weeks.

 

[overthewater]

What a waste, I doubt very much the EX2 to Linlithgow will do much to get passengers. Once again Kirkliston and Winchburgh get nothing.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Another Edinburgh service to Bathgate... It's a interesting concept, but i can't see either route picking up, especially given how limited the areas they serve are. The EX2 may have had a shot at doing something if it went to Falkirk, but Linlithgow is far too small to justify the service on a 30 minute frequency.

As with any time there's a bus war you see express services like this pop up and then vanish equally as fast as they popped up.

 

[CM]

Because someone asked? So I gave them an answer? Simply, I'm not allowed to discuss their future. I can post as much aw I've posted, but any more would see me in trouble.

They may see service on other routes soon but they are intended for their own route. Or so I'm told... they have their own specific branding as such. The X17 has just started and neither that, the X18, X27 or X28 arent branded as "Green Arrow Express.

When they were first dreamt up, they were to be dedicated to a specific route, but again I'm not allowed to say.

I can only tell you as much as I'm allowed.

I'm beginning to think you don't actually work for Lothian, given you have mentioned they were inteded for a dedicated route when in fact, they are for two routes. Also, I find it strange that you post basically saying it's all to be kept top secret and yet a few hours later, Lothian make an announcment....

Now, IF you do actually work for Lothian then I apologise in advance, but I've been on too many forums where people can and have quite very easily claim to work for a bus/train company when they don't.

 

[In Focus]

https://lothiancountry.co.uk/announcing-our-exciting-new-express-services-green-arrow/

So intent on taking on the railway line from these 2 relatively small towns to the City .
Interesting but destined to fail I fear.
More £££ spunked away ...makes you wonder who is actually funding this money pit and why ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another Edinburgh service to Bathgate... It's a interesting concept, but i can't see either route picking up, especially given how limited the areas they serve are. The EX2 may have had a shot at doing something if it went to Falkirk, but Linlithgow is far too small to justify the service on a 30 minute frequency.

As with any time there's a bus war you see express services like this pop up and then vanish equally as fast as they popped up.

Though you seldom get a bus war with an express route with brand new vehicles.

I confess that I'm no expert in the respective towns but in terms of both Linlithgow particularly, it seems to be a tall order to get the trade to make that route pay, given the train service will be considerably quicker. The twirlies may love it but cash payers may be much more likely to pay a quid or so more than spend longer on the road (and that's not thinking of peak traffic).

 

[90019]

And yes, Lothian Motorcoaches are to have routes, their taking up CityLink work starting with a singular daily (i believe) return service to Fort William. One of the recent Levnate purchases has been painted all over white with CityLink names and a Lothian Motorcoaches interior refurb, with LMC wheel trims etc.

I'm assuming that's the Levante that's been sat at the back of Central for the last few days?
The bright red/orange hubs look a bit odd, imo.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm beginning to think you don't actually work for Lothian, given you have mentioned they were inteded for a dedicated route when in fact, they are for two routes. Also, I find it strange that you post basically saying it's all to be kept top secret and yet a few hours later, Lothian make an announcment....

Now, IF you do actually work for Lothian then I apologise in advance, but I've been on too many forums where people can and have quite very easily claim to work for a bus/train company when they don't.

Think you're being rather out of line. The poster did say "When they were first dreamt up, they were to be dedicated to a specific route, but again I'm not allowed to say" - that is, the plans changed.

Also, it may be that the poster has undoubtedly been told to keep schtum until it's announced.

Appreciate your point about fantasists on message boards but perhaps give him (or her) a shoeing when they deserve it, not as a pre-emptive strike!

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

As much as we like to get all the information, if someone who works for a company has been told by the bosses to keep what they know to themself, and they fail to do this by posting on a public forum like this, then there maybe conciquences. It might even be that some people have had to sign NDAs and such too. You simply just don't know what they have been told. I think what ever info we are given by those who work in the company, is very much welcomed.

Now, with that said, it's time to look at the routes. EX1 and EX2. None of which are registered so I assume that will come in the coming days, however I am baffled by the start and end points.

The Exchange - Okay for those who work or need to be in the west end but why not go a mile up the road and take it to St Andrews Square? However RBS gogarburn - Haymarket during peak hours won't be express. If you want express to the M8/M9 then it's best sticking with the West Approach Road, Calder Road and then on to the motorway. Granted, it means they miss out on Haymarket, Maybury and Gogar but express to me means express.

It's going to have to be considerably cheaper than the train however, as it is not going to be faster than it. I do wonder why Bathgate again though. Linlithgow however I can see being more of a success out of the 2.

 

[OmniCity999]

I'm beginning to think you don't actually work for Lothian, given you have mentioned they were inteded for a dedicated route when in fact, they are for two routes. Also, I find it strange that you post basically saying it's all to be kept top secret and yet a few hours later, Lothian make an announcment....

Now, IF you do actually work for Lothian then I apologise in advance, but I've been on too many forums where people can and have quite very easily claim to work for a bus/train company when they don't.

I'm not going to get myself fired for something so trivial. I share the information that I know and the information that I'm allowed to share.

I dont control when my employer makes social media posts do I?

If you're not happy with what I post you dont have to read it. Long and short of it is i share what I can when i can.

 

[Train368]

Disappointing the Bathgate express is Bathgate only and doesn't serve Armadale or Whitburn also. It makes sense to serve Armadale because it's station is at the top of the town and not the easiest to access and makes even more sense with Whitburn conserdering their is no train station in Whitburn at all. The X18 is great don't get me wrong but it would have been nice to have a proper express service again (Like the X1 used to be).

 

[overthewater]

The Ex1 would have been better starting in Armadale and going via Wester inch, ( I doubt there could get around the scheme). Its madness that LCB are making people use the X18, I think if Ex1 went to Armdale the x18 would be dead duck service...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

https://lothiancountry.co.uk/announcing-our-exciting-new-express-services-green-arrow/

Well the Ex2 sounds like a good idea, a direct link to Linlithgow via the M9 will pass well, hopefully that will lead to a Kirkliston service in Phase 7 finally, I’m quite optimistic about this one.

Ex1 I’m mixed about, does Bathgate really need another service? it would of been better if it ran to Harthill via M8, Deer Park, Fastlink, The Centre, Blackburn and Whitburn, though if that’s what Ex3 leads too then hopefully that will be appealing.

Now it’s just a waiting game for the timetable, I assume the fare info is for the Linlithgow service? Unless they put out a prenium on these expresses which would be a bit cheeky in my opinion, especially when it’s already £4.70 from Edinburgh to Bathgate, I can imagine Linlithgow will be in the same fare zone? At least that’s what the fare map makes it look like

 

[In Focus]

You really would have thought another company would have thought of these EX routes ,especially in the days pre train , Oh wait !!!

5 EX1 services 86 seater Lions reduced eventually to 1 and even that struggled to get half a load ,fair bit of brainstorming going on at LCB to come up with these routes I'd say .

 

[overthewater]

You really would have thought another company would have thought of these EX routes ,especially in the days pre train , Oh wait !!!

5 EX1 services 86 seater Lions reduced eventually to 1 and even that struggled to get half a load ,fair bit of brainstorming going on at LCB to come up with these routes I'd say .

Dart Board more like.. Any other idea would have worked better, again why are there staying away from Kirkliston? Are the Management just draft? Everyone on this forum can come up with better idea to get more passengers.

 

[In Focus]

Dart Board more like.. Any other idea would have worked better, again why are there staying away from Kirkliston? Are the Management just draft? Everyone on this forum can come up with better idea to get more passengers.

It looks like someone is reading up on history of services in WL ,I'm pretty sure we are actually going to get a "Diamond service" sometime soon !!!

 

[Jordan Adam]

Well the Ex2 sounds like a good idea, a direct link to Linlithgow via the M9 will pass well, hopefully that will lead to a Kirkliston service in Phase 7 finally, I’m quite optimistic about this one.

The EX2 should really be the FAX (Fresh Air Xpress!). Out of all their route ideas this seems the most bizarre, Do they really think they're going to be able to even half fill 49 seat coaches on a half hourly frequency from a town so small? As i say, it would have been a better idea if the service went to Falkirk, but i just cannot see it working in it's current form.

The EX1 has more potential, however again i question if Bathgate really has demand for such a service. It would possibly take some passengers off the X18 and maybe the 25, but i doubt it will get much if any from the train.

The Express services are good in theory, however they need to cover more area west of Linlithgow/Bathgate if they're going to work.

 

[smtglasgow]

Don’t know what to make of these new services. Good to see new vehicles and new ideas, but who on earth is going to use them? If you’re commuting into Edinburgh you’ll take the train – much dearer, but a fraction of the journeytime. Off-peak train fares are a bit more reasonable, so adults without a concession card will use the train. That just leaves concessions and a few folk that don’t want to stump up the train fare. Can you sustain an operation with brand new coaches on that alone? I’m not going to knock Lothian for trying – and investment in stock is always good – but its hard to imagine ANY other operator throwing as much cash at a plan as Lothian are doing in West Lothian.

Do First get many punters from Linlithgow into Edinburgh on the 38? Something serving Kirkliston and Winchburgh could do them real harm, but don’t think this will worry them.

 

[overthewater]

There will be looking long term.. However it depends on when housing companies build the new spil ramps at Winchburgh, that would mean it could go via winchburgh and then direct on to the M9.

First do get some punters on the 38 however at least half are going else where along the route but it picks up alot more in Winch and Kirk.

 

[overthewater]

Also why are there starting this during the Summer Holidays? when there is less peak traffic?

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I would've liked to see the EX2 operate on a larger more ambitious route against the 38, Stirling > M9 > Linlithgow > Springfield > M9 > Edinburgh and so on.

It could've then undercut First's 38 and potentially gained passengers from CityLinks 909 as well, I think it may certainly be a good thing to launch during the summer holidays given some might visit Edinburgh during the good weather of summer.

The EX1 is the one in which I don't really get given the x18's there.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Don’t know what to make of these new services. Good to see new vehicles and new ideas, but who on earth is going to use them? If you’re commuting into Edinburgh you’ll take the train – much dearer, but a fraction of the journeytime. Off-peak train fares are a bit more reasonable, so adults without a concession card will use the train. That just leaves concessions and a few folk that don’t want to stump up the train fare. Can you sustain an operation with brand new coaches on that alone?

My thoughts entirely.