Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[tbtc]

It’s only done it for a few years, four at most. I’m unsure of an exact timeline but basically:

It did Ocean Terminal to Holyrood for years before being rerouted to terminate at Glenlockhart (at the Craiglockhart University) in June 2014, this allowed all 23’s to terminate at Greenbank - which until then had only received every second bus, Glenlockhart getting the other. The 6 was introduced to replace the 36 in Holyrood, but alas was pretty pointless as a route.

It was sent up Morningside Drive to scale back and ultimately withdraw the Craighouse journeys on the 41 - King’s Buildings similarly only got every 2nd bus, the Craighouse journeys in 2014 were reduced to an hourly shuttle between there and Hanover Street and run mostly with a Dart.

More recently (in 2018 I think) the 36 was extended to the Gyle Centre. At this point it stopped serving the grounds of Craiglockhart campus.

A good summary!

I've struggled to keep up with more recent developments, but I remember the 1980s Leith - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - City Centre service being part of the 34/35, the "kind of a circular, kind of an out-and-back" service from Sighthill to Sighthill (back when Sighthill was one of the most common termini you'd see on destination screens, along with Newhaven - I'm showing my age!)

From memory it was Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Royal Mile - North Bridge - Leith Street - Lochend - Foot of the Walk - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - Tolcross - Fountainbridge - Sighthill (the city centre routing showing why the Eastern Scottish City Sprinters did well, since they gave places like Lochend and Dalry Road direct services to all of Princes Street)

As far as I can remember, the services were diverted via Longstone/ Slateford to replace the 28/29 - this may have been during the big changes of around April 2000 (?) which saw the 34/35 revised into two separate services, the 34 being a fairly straightforward Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Princes Street - Leith Street - Lochend - Foot of the Walk - Ocean Terminal (i.e. similar to much of the old route but via Princes Street) whereas the 35 became more like Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Royal Mile - Holyrood - Easter Road - Foot of the Walk - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - Tolcross, with the 35a the other way (?), a bit like a large number nine. The Stockbridge bit was spun off into a stand alone service with the 35 extended to Ocean Terminal.

I'm surprised that the 36 has survived and seems a busy enough commercial route - I thought that it'd go the way of the 13 (i.e. tendered by the council) since it's not a particularly direct way between any major places (Leith and Stockbridge both having much more direct services into the heart of the city centre) - it's good to see that there are enough people for a service that skirts the edge of the city centre without either serving the heart or being a kind of "orbital" route

In fact, I'm a bit surprised that the 34 and 35 have both lasted as fairly frequent services, given that they don't quite go in straight lines - the changing travel demands of Edinburgh has contributed a lot to that (in my day, the service beyond Sighthill to Herriot Watt was just half hourly - 61, 22, 65 at different periods - but now there are so many University students and also college students wanting services along the A71 - the need for various places to have an Ocean Terminal service has helped too, keeping the northern end of the 34 and 35 busy

This is something I prefer about Edinburgh to Glasgow - Glasgow seems to be much more of a radial network, with fairly simple direct routes into the city centre, whereas Edinburgh has more variety in terms of the types of services

 

[Siemens Trains]

I'm surprised that the 36 has survived and seems a busy enough commercial route - I thought that it'd go the way of the 13 (i.e. tendered by the council) since it's not a particularly direct way between any major places (Leith and Stockbridge both having much more direct services into the heart of the city centre) - it's good to see that there are enough people for a service that skirts the edge of the city centre without either serving the heart or being a kind of "orbital" route

I suspect there was some resistance against going back to such "orbital" services within recent decades and the 36 has been a surprisingly successful experiment.
In the years around deregulation, Princes St was almost an essential destination for any money-making route and the peripheral services usually viewed as unattractive duds.

 

[DunsBus]

A good summary!

I've struggled to keep up with more recent developments, but I remember the 1980s Leith - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - City Centre service being part of the 34/35, the "kind of a circular, kind of an out-and-back" service from Sighthill to Sighthill (back when Sighthill was one of the most common termini you'd see on destination screens, along with Newhaven - I'm showing my age!)

From memory it was Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Royal Mile - North Bridge - Leith Street - Lochend - Foot of the Walk - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - Tolcross - Fountainbridge - Sighthill (the city centre routing showing why the Eastern Scottish City Sprinters did well, since they gave places like Lochend and Dalry Road direct services to all of Princes Street)

As far as I can remember, the services were diverted via Longstone/ Slateford to replace the 28/29 - this may have been during the big changes of around April 2000 (?) which saw the 34/35 revised into two separate services, the 34 being a fairly straightforward Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Princes Street - Leith Street - Lochend - Foot of the Walk - Ocean Terminal (i.e. similar to much of the old route but via Princes Street) whereas the 35 became more like Sighthill - Fountainbridge - Tolcross - Royal Mile - Holyrood - Easter Road - Foot of the Walk - Stockbridge - Dean Bridge - Tolcross, with the 35a the other way (?), a bit like a large number nine. The Stockbridge bit was spun off into a stand alone service with the 35 extended to Ocean Terminal.

I'm surprised that the 36 has survived and seems a busy enough commercial route - I thought that it'd go the way of the 13 (i.e. tendered by the council) since it's not a particularly direct way between any major places (Leith and Stockbridge both having much more direct services into the heart of the city centre) - it's good to see that there are enough people for a service that skirts the edge of the city centre without either serving the heart or being a kind of "orbital" route

In fact, I'm a bit surprised that the 34 and 35 have both lasted as fairly frequent services, given that they don't quite go in straight lines - the changing travel demands of Edinburgh has contributed a lot to that (in my day, the service beyond Sighthill to Herriot Watt was just half hourly - 61, 22, 65 at different periods - but now there are so many University students and also college students wanting services along the A71 - the need for various places to have an Ocean Terminal service has helped too, keeping the northern end of the 34 and 35 busy

This is something I prefer about Edinburgh to Glasgow - Glasgow seems to be much more of a radial network, with fairly simple direct routes into the city centre, whereas Edinburgh has more variety in terms of the types of services

The 34/35 also served Longstone and Slateford. I remember there being a very nasty accident involving a service 34 at Slateford in August 1983, which resulted in a fatality - I won't go into full details here but newspaper clippings showing the aftermath and the damaged bus are on Flickr.

 

[CraigLockhart]

I often use the 36 from Leith to morningside to avoid Leith walk and princes at as it is very rarely delayed even in the rush. What I see is almost a number of mini routes. People use it for short journeys. It can be incredibly busy Lothian rd to morningside if it arrives just before and 11 or 16 but also has good loads between morningside and craiglockhart. I guess it's handy for many to get over to the gyle/colleges/Edinburgh Park from that area too as it's reasonably direct. It's also relatively free of scary people most of the time when I use it. I'm trying to be kind!!

 

[freddiem]

I have also noticed that the 36 can be busy on a Sunday from Morningside right down to Ocean Terminal as the 11 is a little less frequent all day, and the 36 has a more consistent journey time as it avoids the chaos of the tram works in Leith and Princes St. The Western end of the route at the weekend is a bit hit or miss, but any time I have been on it there is usually a few waiting at the Gyle and Hermiston Gait or at other times I have been the only one on the bus from the Gyle to Longstone. Overall, it is a relatively useful route and I enjoy the more visually pleasant route that it takes through the city

 

[VioletEclipse]

When's the last time a Lothian bus has carried fleet number 666 for more than 10 years? I know that Olympian 666 was burnt after 5 years in service and Trident 666 was renumbered to 628 when it was under 10 years old. Was there a bus 666 before the Olympian?

 

[DunsBus]

When's the last time a Lothian bus has carried fleet number 666 for more than 10 years? I know that Olympian 666 was burnt after 5 years in service and Trident 666 was renumbered to 628 when it was under 10 years old. Was there a bus 666 before the Olympian?

Yes there was, Titan 666 (ASC666B).

Part of Olympian 666 lives on to this day - the front, which was grafted on to sister 667 after it sustained front-end accident damage. Everything you see ahead of the front axle on 667 came from 666.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Yes there was, Titan 666 (ASC666B).

Part of Olympian 666 lives on to this day - the front, which was grafted on to sister 667 after it sustained front-end accident damage. Everything you see ahead of the front axle on 667 came from 666.

thanks DunsBus

I am aware that part of 666 lives on as part of 667, but I didn't realise it was that much.

Presuming that the Titan survived for over 10 years, that would mean that if MMC 666 lasts until 2031 then it'll be the first Lothian bus to carry that fleet number for over a decade, in over 50 years, as neither the Olympian nor Trident managed that - although both of those still exist, the Trident in full and the Olympian in part.

Was purely wondering from when I passed the new MMC 666 a few days ago and thought 'that fleet number hasn't lasted all too long on both previous buses new as 666'.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Just a question that popped into my mind but when were the V reg batch of darts withdrawn and what replaced them and does anybody know if any are still around? (I have done some research but haven't found much)

 

[ScotRail158725]

Just a question that popped into my mind but when were the V reg batch of darts withdrawn and what replaced them and does anybody know if any are still around?

they were withdrawn in the late 2000s roughly when the 58 plate RLEs entered service

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Just a question that popped into my mind but when were the V reg batch of darts withdrawn and what replaced them and does anybody know if any are still around? (I have done some research but haven't found much)

Replaced in 2007 by some of 136-150 and then 151-160 I think. I was told a number of years ago that they were extremely unreliable hence the slightly earlier withdrawal. I think the Park and Ride branded ones lasted slightly longer (into 2008) and were replaced by some of 161-170.

 

[Tartanarmy85]

Replaced in 2007 by some of 136-150 and then 151-160 I think. I was told a number of years ago that they were extremely unreliable hence the slightly earlier withdrawal. I think the Park and Ride branded ones lasted slightly longer (into 2008) and were replaced by some of 161-170.un

Unsure if still do but EMH had some and JMB travel

 

[ScotRail158725]

Unsure if still do but EMH had some and JMB travel

Both have since got rid of them

 

[Bus9120UK]

1110 involved in serious collision at Maybury, hopefully nobody has been injured. Looks horrible. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/busy-scots-road-shut-police-25307410

Emergency services have shut down a busy Edinburgh road after a horror crash involving a car and a bus.

Cops and fire crews raced to the smash on Glasgow Road at around 7pm on Tuesday night, October 26.

The two-vehicle collision involved a car and a Lothian Bus.

 

[Graham Alexand]

1110 involved in serious collision at Maybury, hopefully nobody has been injured. Looks horrible. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/busy-scots-road-shut-police-25307410

Hopefully not but if so, my thoughts go tho them and their friends + family.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I have also noticed that the 36 can be busy on a Sunday from Morningside right down to Ocean Terminal as the 11 is a little less frequent all day, and the 36 has a more consistent journey time as it avoids the chaos of the tram works in Leith and Princes St. The Western end of the route at the weekend is a bit hit or miss, but any time I have been on it there is usually a few waiting at the Gyle and Hermiston Gait or at other times I have been the only one on the bus from the Gyle to Longstone. Overall, it is a relatively useful route and I enjoy the more visually pleasant route that it takes through the city

The 36 is definitely one of the more under appreciated routes in the city, the direct link between Morningside and Sighthill is handy giving how awkward and time consuming it is to take multiple buses for a section that’s only 10 minutes away by car, although that can be said for lots of areas in the city, I’m glad it does really well for itself as I do love the section between Deans Bridge and Leith.

on a semi unrelated note I’ve noticed yet again major outcry’s for the lack of the X5, it makes me wonder if ECB are deliberately ignoring passenger comments these past months or it’s more complicated than that, I mean it probably is but what do I know?

What really surprises me is the lack of X24 at peak times, also makes me wonder if ECB are ignoring it long enough to pretend it never existed, you could argue the same with the X43

 

[alexf380]

on a semi unrelated note I’ve noticed yet again major outcry’s for the lack of the X5, it makes me wonder if ECB are deliberately ignoring passenger comments these past months or it’s more complicated than that, I mean it probably is but what do I know?

Still short of drivers at ECB, particularly on the North Berwick garage rota. We have recruited a quite a few since the summer but there have also been transfers out to Lothian City garages.
I'd like to see the X24 return as well, the 124 can be such a slog at times through Portobello and Musselburgh.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

401 has a new green and blue livery.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Saw 552 in Queen Street this afternoon in a 'Cop 26' livery.

 

[ScotRail158725]

401 has gained a new wrap. Perhaps wraps will go on 402-425 in the future

Lothian Buses: 29.10.21

This image is © KM Edinburgh. It would be an offence for you to remove the copyright mark, or post the image elsewhere without my written permission.

flic.kr

 

[CN04NRJ]

More sold to Ensign in the October news, though as per the September report it includes buses that are still in service (as well as the 900s from September that are still parked at Marine?)

From Lothian Buses : Volvo B9TL’s SN09CTU / CTV / CTX / CTY / CTZ / CUA / CUC / CUG / CUH / CUJ / CUK / CUO / CUU / CUV / CUW / CUX / CUY / CV

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

More sold to Ensign in the October news, though as per the September report it includes buses that are still in service (as well as the 900s from September that are still parked at Marine?)

From Lothian Buses : Volvo B9TL’s SN09CTU / CTV / CTX / CTY / CTZ / CUA / CUC / CUG / CUH / CUJ / CUK / CUO / CUU / CUV / CUW / CUX / CUY / CV

All of 301-329/926-927 now appear to be VOR, fully withdrawn and/or sold with the exception of 307, 323, 324 and 329. I’m guessing these 4 are on borrowed time as well. Most of the 59 plates to go next surely?

Looks like 667-668, 673-698 left to enter service but these AVL’s are a bit unpredictable and so I’m probably a bit off there.

402-408, 410-411 now at Marine also.

 

[CN04NRJ]

All of 301-329/926-927 now appear to be VOR, fully withdrawn and/or sold with the exception of 307, 323, 324 and 329. I’m guessing these 4 are on borrowed time as well. Most of the 59 plates to go next surely?

Looks like 667-668, 673-698 left to enter service but these AVL’s are a bit unpredictable and so I’m probably a bit off there.

402-408, 410-411 now at Marine also.

I've been led to believe that 330-350 are staying (probably because of the upcoming North Bridge nightmare and future potential changes) but I may be wrong.

 

[Graham Alexand]

All of 301-329/926-927 now appear to be VOR, fully withdrawn and/or sold with the exception of 307, 323, 324 and 329. I’m guessing these 4 are on borrowed time as well. Most of the 59 plates to go next surely?

Looks like 667-668, 673-698 left to enter service but these AVL’s are a bit unpredictable and so I’m probably a bit off there.

402-408, 410-411 now at Marine also.

Does anyone have any more information to what is going to happen to 928 - 936? Thanks

 

[CN04NRJ]

Does anyone have any more information to what is going to happen to 928 - 936? Thanks

They're all Euro 6 upgraded?

 

[Graham Alexand]

They're all Euro 6 upgraded?

I thought it was only the ex London ones that were upgraded, were they not?

 

[CN04NRJ]

I thought it was only the ex London ones that were upgraded, were they not?

928-936 are Euro 6. Note the straight out exhaust compared to earlier photos of it;

Lothian Country 929 SN09CVP

Lothian Country 929 SN09CVP Volvo B9TL/Wright Gemini 2 seen at Princes Street working service 43 (21/09/21)

flic.kr

(newer)

https://flic.kr/p/2gHHxun (older)

 

[Graham Alexand]

928-936 are Euro 6. Note the straight out exhaust compared to earlier photos of it;

Lothian Country 929 SN09CVP

Lothian Country 929 SN09CVP Volvo B9TL/Wright Gemini 2 seen at Princes Street working service 43 (21/09/21)

flic.kr

(newer)

https://flic.kr/p/2gHHxun (older)

Oh right, yeah I notice it. So they'll probably not be withdrawn for a few more years. Thank you for that

 

[cnjb8]

More sold to Ensign in the October news, though as per the September report it includes buses that are still in service (as well as the 900s from September that are still parked at Marine?)

From Lothian Buses : Volvo B9TL’s SN09CTU / CTV / CTX / CTY / CTZ / CUA / CUC / CUG / CUH / CUJ / CUK / CUO / CUU / CUV / CUW / CUX / CUY / CV

Maybe some are owned by Ensign but staying at Lothian for now just to save a journey to Essex?

 

[computerSaysNo]

I've been led to believe that 330-350 are staying (probably because of the upcoming North Bridge nightmare and future potential changes) but I may be wrong.

Ugh, what are they doing with it now?