Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I wonder why they do that now. I've no doubt there is a good operational reason but just seems to complicate things a little bit.

It’s normally done to reduce the number of buses required for a route. In this case it will probably only reduce it by 1 but it’s 1 diagram less to need at the minute while this reduction is in place.

As as an example Service 4 may have needed 8 buses previously, as the route was every 20 mins and took a little over 1hr 10mins to do one leg. Not including layover this means a full circuit of the route takes 2hrs 20mins. Factor in the layover and the circuit should’ve been 2hrs 40mins. By taking one diagram out they can keep the layover fairly good at the Hillend end (5-7 mins) but reduce the layover at The Jewel end (which would’ve been around 15 mins previously) to around 5-7 mins as well. I’m not as well equipped with the 5 but I’d imagine it’s a similar scenario.

I’m not the best at explaining things but hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Grumpyscot]

Interesting response from Craig Hoy MSP on his attempts to have the X5 service reinstated

Since I launched the petition back in October it has attracted the support of over 900 people. We have received huge amounts of support, in particular from the communities that benefit most from the service, namely North Berwick, Dirleton, Gullane, Aberlady and Longniddry. I wanted to write to you with an update of what action I have taken since I launched the petition.

To date I have been unable to secure a meeting with or get any meaningful response from any representative of either Lothian Buses or East Coast Buses. I have now written on three occasions requesting a face to face meeting in order to present the petition and to discuss the specific impediments and resource allocations which are preventing the reinstatement of the service. At the time of writing this letter my request has still not been acknowledged.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

It’s normally done to reduce the number of buses required for a route. In this case it will probably only reduce it by 1 but it’s 1 diagram less to need at the minute while this reduction is in place.

As as an example Service 4 may have needed 8 buses previously, as the route was every 20 mins and took a little over 1hr 10mins to do one leg. Not including layover this means a full circuit of the route takes 2hrs 20mins. Factor in the layover and the circuit should’ve been 2hrs 40mins. By taking one diagram out they can keep the layover fairly good at the Hillend end (5-7 mins) but reduce the layover at The Jewel end (which would’ve been around 15 mins previously) to around 5-7 mins as well. I’m not as well equipped with the 5 but I’d imagine it’s a similar scenario.

I’m not the best at explaining things but hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks. Great explanation and makes perfect sense.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Interesting response from Craig Hoy MSP on his attempts to have the X5 service reinstated

Honestly I get if it the issue is just the lack of drivers due to Covid, it is an uneasy time for many operators, besides that saying it’s not returning due to “lack of demand” is honestly a bull response, the X5 offered what some people wanted from the 124 since it’s launch in 2016, a fast direct express to North Berwick, and the 124 as good of a service as it is can’t hold all the weight during peak times.

I guess now it helps that the 26 runs along Regent Road now to pick up the passengers from Portobello wanting a faster way to town.

But honestly of all the services to reinstate now, the X5 needs to return, if not now then in 2022 hopefully.

 

[stevenedin]

Maybe Eve or Prentice could start up an express from Edinburgh to North Berwick

 

[backontrack]

35 running via Pleasance and Dumbiedykes now (presumably diverted). Good call, serving Canongate on a proper through route makes more sense than the old 6, and it's wise to run a bus from Bristo to the EUSA buildings at Pleasance and the student accommodation on either side.

 

[stantheman]

Who operates the inter campus service from Bristo to Kings Buildings nowadays ?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Maybe Eve or Prentice could start up an express from Edinburgh to North Berwick

I have my doubts but stranger things have happened, Prentice could at least maybe extend their Gullane-Haddington service to North Berwick and see if there’s a market for them.

35 running via Pleasance and Dumbiedykes now (presumably diverted). Good call, serving Canongate on a proper through route makes more sense than the old 6, and it's wise to run a bus from Bristo to the EUSA buildings at Pleasance and the student accommodation on either side.

It’s diverted but as far as we are aware it’s on the bus app and timetables are up at the stops there, so it’s a route change (temporarily) I hope it pays off and it gets well used in that area, this is essentially an experiment to see if the residents of Dumbiedykes will use this very frequent/late running service as the 6/60 only ran till 6pm.

Who operates the inter campus service from Bristo to Kings Buildings nowadays ?

It’s still Lothian I believe

 

[CN04NRJ]

Who operates the inter campus service from Bristo to Kings Buildings nowadays ?

EBT drivers out of Marine garage.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

291 plus another 2 on the 23 this morning. Perhaps they are getting trialled on other routes.

 

[buslad1988]

291 plus another 2 on the 23 this morning. Perhaps they are getting trialled on other routes.

Lothian tweeted yesterday as part of the next phase of route trials they’ll be moving on to the 23.

 

[ScotRail158725]

425 now has a wrap for AICO fire alarm systems. Same as 366 & 380s full backs but as a full wrap instead

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

As one bus from the 23 now does a 19 in the evening on Mondays to Saturdays, 291 is currently planned to work the 19 later on this evening. This would be the third route they have been on if this actually happens?

Gone are the days where tridents used to be the norm here all the time, luxuries in the form of XLB’s and now electrics. Spoiled!

 

[ScotRail158725]

luxuries in the form of XLB’s and now electrics. Spoiled!

Would much much prefer a trident than either of the other two….

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Would much much prefer a trident than either of the other two….

Only the earlier ones for me. 51 plates were my favourite. Then the W/X reg ones. I always remember the pink ‘CAUTION EXTRA LONG BUS’ badge in the cab on the later 52/53/04 plate ones, a length that is basically standard now. Imagine if XLB’s had the same type of thing only longer - ‘CAUTION EXTRA EXTRA LONG BUS’?

I had thought 423 was brought out to replace 291 but it would appear that’s not the case, as 423 was on a different diagram on the 23, been a long day so guess it’s still a wait and see.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Only the earlier ones for me. 51 plates were my favourite. Then the W/X reg ones. I always remember the pink ‘CAUTION EXTRA LONG BUS’ badge in the cab on the later 52/53/04 plate ones, a length that is basically standard now. Imagine if XLB’s had the same type of thing only longer - ‘CAUTION EXTRA EXTRA LONG BUS’?

I had thought 423 was brought out to replace 291 but it would appear that’s not the case, as 423 was on a different diagram on the 23, been a long day so guess it’s still a wait and see.

It's out on the 19 now. A surreal sight!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It's out on the 19 now. A surreal sight!

Certainly was, think the regulars were probably a tad confused at first. Only the second time I’ve seen one in flesh in the suburbs and you just can’t believe how quiet they are. I hope more are ordered for all sorts of reasons, that or the BZL as I suggested previously.

Hopefully it’ll be on the same diagram on Thursday and I’ll be able to enjoy a nice quiet journey home. Mind you this is still the 19 we’re talking about.

It’s nice to see them out and about on other routes too, I’ve said it previously but the 23 long term makes complete sense to me and I’m glad they’ve finally ventured into it. Good capacity, a busy road route in terms of pollution and a route dare I say that always seems to have a good reputation for its users and the possibility of lack of vandals etc. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen but you’d like to think it’s far less common on the 23 compared to other routes. Not forgetting the Botanics as well which could have good PR for the zero emission element side of things. I remember it coming across well to the public when the former 9 and 28 ran some years ago now, which typically used the Enviro400H’s at the time.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It’s diverted but as far as we are aware it’s on the bus app and timetables are up at the stops there, so it’s a route change (temporarily) I hope it pays off and it gets well used in that area, this is essentially an experiment to see if the residents of Dumbiedykes will use this very frequent/late running service as the 6/60 only ran till 6pm.

I’m guessing this didn’t age well, I just saw that the royal mile was reopened and the 35 is back to its regular route!

Too bad dumbiedykes we’ll get them next time!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’m guessing this didn’t age well, I just saw that the royal mile was reopened and the 35 is back to its regular route!

Too bad dumbiedykes we’ll get them next time!

According to a Lothian twitter response, it’s only a temporary return to ‘normal’ for around 6 weeks. I believe there’s a Phase 2 to these works which I’m guessing will start after the 6 weeks are up. First normal week in January if dates are correct.

Phase 1 has probably finished slightly early and they’ve possibly felt it’s easier to have it open while the Christmas stuff is on and restart in the New Year.

 

[Graham Alexand]

That is the Christmas/ New Year festive timetables been confirmed by Lothian Buses.

There will be special festive levels in place, on December 24th and 31st services will finish earlier than normal.

From December 27th to December 31st Lothian will operate a Saturday timetable.

Links to Timetables below:
Lothian Buses: https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/211119_LB_Xmas-Leaflet-2021.pdf
Lothian Country: https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/LC-XMAS-LEAFLET-2021-22.pdf
EastCoastBuses: https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/ECB-XMAS-LEAFLET-2021-22.pdf

Link to website and article: https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2021/11/2021-festive-timetables/

 

[scotrail158713]

Good to see the N113 is ditched on Hogmanay again, meanwhile the N106 and N124 are brought in. All despite the fact that the N113 runs 7 days a week all year round, whereas the other two only on Saturdays and Sundays. Only really a minor issue IMO though - overall it is a very good service being run right across the festive period.

 

[Bus9120UK]

That is the Christmas/ New Year festive timetables been confirmed by Lothian Buses.

There will be special festive levels in place, on December 24th and 31st services will finish earlier than normal.

From December 27th to December 31st Lothian will operate a Saturday timetable.

Services running are as follows:
Saturday 25th December 2021
Lothian Buses
Service 3 - Clovenstone - Gilmerton,
Service 7 - Surgeons Hall - Royal Infirmary
Service 8 - Muirhouse - Royal Infirmary
Service 16 - Torphin to Silverknowes
Service 22 - The Gyle Centre - Ocean Terminal
Service 26 - Clerwood - Seton Sands
Service 30 Silverknowes - Fort Kinnaird
Service 31 - East Craigs - Edinburgh
Service 34 - Silverknowes - Newhaven
Service 37 - Silverknowes - Edinburgh
Service 44 - Balerno - Burnstane
Airlink 100 - Edinburgh Airport - Edinburgh

Lothian Country
Service 275 - Bathgate - Broxburn
Service X28 - Bathgate - Edinburgh
Service X27 - Whitburn - Edinburgh

EastCoastBuses
Service 106 - Dunbar - Western General
Service 113 - Pencaitland - Western General
Service 124 - North Berwick - Edinburgh.

Sunday 26th December 2021 and Sunday 2nd January 2021
Lothian Buses
Service 3 - Clovenstone - Mayfield
Service 7 - Newhaven - Royal Infirmary
Service 8 - Muirhouse - Royal Infirmary
Service 11 - Hyvots Bank - Ocean Terminal
Service 14 - Muirhouse - Greendykes
Service 16 - Silverknowes - Torphin
Service 19 - Granton - Edinburgh
Service 21 - Clovenstone - Royal Infirmary
Service 22 - The Gyle Centre - Ocean Terminal
Service 24 - Muirhouse - Royal Infirmary
Service 25 - Riccarton - Restalrig
Service 26 - Clerwood - Seton Sands/ Tranent
Service 27 - Silverknowes - Hunter's Tryst
Service 29 - Silverknowes - Gorebridge
Service 30 - Clovenstone - Musselburgh
Service 31 - East Craigs - Bonnyrigg/ Polton Mill
Service 34 - Riccarton - Ocean Terminal
Service 37 - Silverknowes - Penicuik
Service 44 - Balerno - Musselburgh
Service 48 - Royal Infirmary - Gorebridge
Service 49 - Fort Kinnaird - Rosewell
Airlink 100 - Edinburgh Airport - Edinburgh
Service 400 - Fort Kinnaird - The Gyle Centre

Lothian Country
Service 43 - Queensferry - Edinburgh
Service 275 - Bathgate - Broxburn
Service 276 - Fauldhouse - Broxburn
Service 280 - Blackridge - Livingston
Service X18 - Whitburn - Edinburgh
Service X27 - Whitburn - Edinburgh
Service X28 - Bathgate - Edinburgh

EastCoastBuses
Service 104 - Haddington - West Granton
Service 106 - Dunbar - Musselburgh
Service 113 - Pencaitland - West Granton
Service 124 - North Berwick - Edinburgh
Service X7 - Dunbar - Edinburgh.

Saturday 1st January 2022
Lothian Buses
Service 3 - Clovenstone - Mayfield
Service 7 - Newhaven - Royal Infirmary
Service 8 - Muirhouse - Royal Infirmary
Service 11 - Hyvots Bank - Ocean Terminal
Service 14 - Muirhouse - Greendykes
Service 16 - Silverknowes - Torphin
Service 19 - Granton - Edinburgh
Service 21 - Clovenstone - Royal Infirmary
Service 22 - The Gyle Centre - Ocean Terminal
Service 24 - Muirhouse - Royal Infirmary
Service 25 - Riccarton - Restalrig
Service 26 - Clerwood - Seton Sands/ Tranent
Service 27 - Silverknowes - Hunter's Tryst
Service 29 - Silverknowes - Gorebridge
Service 30 - Clovenstone - Musselburgh
Service 31 - East Craigs - Bonnyrigg/ Polton Mill
Service 34 - Riccarton - Ocean Terminal
Service 37 - Silverknowes - Penicuik
Service 44 - Balerno - Musselburgh
Service 48 - Royal Infirmary - Gorebridge
Service 49 - Fort Kinnaird - Rosewell
Airlink 100 - Edinburgh Airport - Edinburgh

Lothian Country
Service 43 - Queensferry - Edinburgh
Service 275 - Bathgate - Broxburn
Service X28 - Bathgate - Edinburgh
Service X27 - Whitburn - Edinburgh

EastCoastBuses
Service 104 - Haddington - Edinburgh
Service 106 - Dunbar - Musselburgh
Service 113 - Pencaitland - West Granton
Service 124 - North Berwick - Edinburgh
Service X7 - Dunbar - Edinburgh.

Links to Timetables below:
Lothian Buses: https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/211119_LB_Xmas-Leaflet-2021.pdf
Lothian Country: https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/LC-XMAS-LEAFLET-2021-22.pdf
EastCoastBuses: https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/ECB-XMAS-LEAFLET-2021-22.pdf

Link to website and article: https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2021/11/2021-festive-timetables/

Seems very similar to previous years. A note, the 30 & 34 are not running to Silverknowes, they are only running to the city centre.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Good to see the N113 is ditched on Hogmanay again, meanwhile the N106 and N124 are brought in. All despite the fact that the N113 runs 7 days a week all year round, whereas the other two only on Saturdays and Sundays. Only really a minor issue IMO though - overall it is a very good service being run right across the festive period.

I think it’s because they are aiming to please the Tranent residents hence why they N26 has been extended also. Admittingly it is disappointing how Wallyford and Ormiston are left out but hey what can you do.

Notice the lack of N18/N38 on the LCB side this time, even when they withdrew the X38 you’d think for that one night they would cater to the Kirkliston residents

Seems very similar to previous years. A note, the 30 & 34 are not running to Silverknowes, they are only running to the city centre.

I think it’s meaning that when the 30/34 run to the city centre they change to a 37 to the city centre!

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder how the reduced frequencies on the current Saturday timetable will cope with the loadings on the busy days between the 27th and 31st respectively

 

[GusB]

While someone posted a list of all the Lothian services that would be running over the festive period, it was reported to us that there were some inaccuracies in the information provided. For clarity, the actual post from the Lothian Buses website is:

Lothian's 2021 Festive Timetables - Lothian Buses

Lothian’s special timetables for the Christmas and Hogmanay period are now available to help customers plan ahead for their festive journeys across Edinburgh and the Lothians. Summaries of service provision over the festive period can be found below. Timetables are also available here: Lothian...

www.lothianbuses.com

Lothian’s special timetables for the Christmas and Hogmanay period are now available to help customers plan ahead for their festive journeys across Edinburgh and the Lothians.
Summaries of service provision over the festive period can be found below. Timetables are also available here:

• Lothian
• EastCoastbuses
• Lothian Country

https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/LC-XMAS-LEAFLET-2021-22.pdf

Christmas Eve (Friday 24 December)
Lothian, Lothian Country and EastCoastbuses will operate a Saturday service, finishing earlier than normal with last journeys through the city centre at approximately 21:30.
AIRLINK will operate a Saturday service, with the last departure from Edinburgh Airport at 00:45. Skylink services will operate Saturday timetable until the last departure from Edinburgh Airport at approximately 21:00.
Nightbus services will operate as normal on the morning of 24 December.

Christmas Day (Saturday 25 December)
A special service will operate across Lothian, EastCoastbuses and Lothian Country on Christmas Day.

Services 3, 7, 8, 16, 22, 26, 30, 31, 34, 37 and 44 will operate in Edinburgh and East Lothian.
Service 16 will be extended from Colinton to Torphin and Service 34 will terminate at Newhaven (Pier Place) instead of Ocean Terminal.
Service 37 will interwork with Services 30 and 34 on Christmas Day. At The Scott Monument on Princes Street, Service 37 will continue either as a Service 30 to Fort Kinnaird or as a Service 34 to Newhaven. Please see map below:

EastCoastbuses will run a special service on the 106, 113 and 124, with financial support from East Lothian Council.
Lothian Country will run a special service on the X27, X28 and 275, with financial support from West Lothian Council.
AIRLINK will run a special service, beginning from South St David Street hourly from 04:30 until 09:30 and then every 30 minutes until 21:30. Buses will start departing from Edinburgh Airport hourly from 05:00 until 09:30 and then every 30 minutes until 22:00.
Skylink and Nightbus services will not operate on Christmas Day.

Boxing Day (Sunday 26 December)

A special service will operate across Lothian on Boxing Day.
Services 3, 7, 8, 11, 14, 16, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 34, 37, 48 and 49 will operate in Edinburgh and East Lothian.
Service 30 operates a special route on 26 December and 2 January. Journeys start at Westside Plaza and operate via Baberton Mains, Clovenstone Drive and then normal route to Musselburgh.
EastCoastbuses will operate a special service with financial support from East Lothian Council. Services 104, 106, 113, 124 and X7 operate in East Lothian.
Lothian Country Services 43, X18, X27, X28, 275, 276 and 280 will operate in West Lothian.
AIRLINK will operate a special service starting at South St David Street at 04:00 every 20 minutes until its last departure at 23:55. Journeys from the Airport start at 04:30 and then 05:00 then every 20 minutes until 00:00. The last departure from the Airport will be at 00:30.
Skylink 400 will run an hourly service with the last departure from Fort Kinnaird at 19:45.
No Nightbuses will run on Boxing Day.

Monday 27 - Friday 31 December
A Saturday service will operate across Lothian, EastCoastbuses and Lothian Country during this period, with services finishing at the earlier time of 21:30 on Friday 31 December for Hogmanay.
AIRLINK will operate a Saturday service starting at South St David Street with early morning journeys running on Monday 27 December. The last departure from the city centre on Friday 31 December will be at 00:05 and from the Airport at 00:45.
Nightbuses will not operate on Monday 27 December, but will recommence from Tuesday 28 December operating to a weekday timetable through to Friday 31 December.

New Year's Day (Saturday 1 January 2022)

A special service will operate across Lothian.
Services 3, 7, 8, 11, 14, 16, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 34, 37, 44, 48 and 49 will operate in Edinburgh and East Lothian.
Service 16 will be extended to Torphin and Service 30 operates a special route on 01 January. Journeys start at Westside Plaza and operate via Baberton Mains, Clovenstone Drive and then normal route to Musselburgh.
EastCoastbuses services 104, 106, 113, 124, and X7 will operate a special service in East Lothian.
Lothian Country will operate a special service with funding from West Lothian Council. Services 43, X27, X28 and 275 will run in West Lothian.
AIRLINK services will start from St Andrew’s Square (North) at 04:00 and run every 20 minutes until 09:40. Services will then start from South St David’s Street at 10:00 running every 20 minutes until 23:20 with the last departure at 23:55. Services departing from the Airport start at 04:30 running every 20 minutes from 05:40 until 00:00. The last departure from the Airport will be at 00:30.
Skylink services will not run on 1 January.
A Hogmanay Special Service will operate on 1 January on our Nightbus network from midnight until 04:00 approximately.

Sunday 2 January 2022

A special service will operate across Lothian.
Services 3, 7, 8, 11, 14, 16, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 34, 37, 48 and 49 will operate in Edinburgh and East Lothian.
Service 30 operates a special route on 26 December and 2 January. Journeys start at Westside Plaza and operate via Baberton Mains, Clovenstone Drive and then normal route to Musselburgh.
EastCoastbuses will operate a special service with financial support from East Lothian Council on Services 104, 106, 113, 124 and X7.
Lothian Country will operate a special service in West Lothian on Services 43, X18, X27, X28, 275, 276 and 280.
AIRLINK will operate a special service starting at South St David Street at 04:00 every 20 minutes until its last departure at 23:55. Journeys from the Airport start at 04:30 and then 05:00 then every 20 minutes until 00:00. The last departure from the Airport will be at 00:30.
Skylink 400 will run an hourly service with the last departure from Fort Kinnaird at 19:45.
There will be no Nightbus services on Sunday 2 January.

Monday 3 - Wednesday 5 January 2022
A Saturday service will operate across Lothian and Lothian Country during this period.
On EastCoastbuses, a Saturday service will operate until Wednesday 5 January when, due to the return of schools in East Lothian, a normal weekday timetable will resume.
AIRLINK will operate a Saturday service during this period (with early morning journeys running from Monday 3 January).
There will be no Nightbus services on Monday 3 January. A normal weekday timetable will resume on Nightbuses from Tuesday 4 January.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Longstone's Evora 93 is on the 45 tonight.

 

[Ricky Kane]

Longstone's Evora 93 is on the 45 tonight.

I see that 340 is now at Ensign along with a few other 59 plates.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Ensign in November
From Lothian Buses : Volvo B9TL’s SN09CVB / CVC / CVD / CVE / CVF / CVG / CVH / CVJ / CVK / CVL SN59BFL / BFM / BFO / BFP / BFU / BFV / BFX / BFY / BFZ / BGE / BGF


OUT
Volvo B9TL’s SN59BFL / BFM / BFZ : York Pullman.

Volvo B9TL’s SN08BYL / BYR / BYT : Langston and Tasker, Steeple Claydon.

Volvo B7RLE : SK07CGF : A-Line coaches, Gateshead.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Ensign in November
From Lothian Buses : Volvo B9TL’s SN09CVB / CVC / CVD / CVE / CVF / CVG / CVH / CVJ / CVK / CVL SN59BFL / BFM / BFO / BFP / BFU / BFV / BFX / BFY / BFZ / BGE / BGF


OUT
Volvo B9TL’s SN59BFL / BFM / BFZ : York Pullman.

Volvo B9TL’s SN08BYL / BYR / BYT : Langston and Tasker, Steeple Claydon.

Volvo B7RLE : SK07CGF : A-Line coaches, Gateshead.

So that’s up to and including 340 now away then. 341-342, 344-345 covering at ECB for repaints. 348-350 still in use at Marine (although I’d imagine once 420-422 or others move to Marine they’ll be VOR’d at the minimum) and then 343, 346-347 TBC, but believed to be VOR at Marine.

Interesting that 926 is on that list as well. I’m guessing that’s either going there once more ADL B5’s are in at Central, or it’s an error.

 

[stantheman]

927 out on the 44 today