Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[tbtc]

First off why is it negative to say, Lothian should have some stability for the next few months? ie let give everyone time to get used to everything so people can get comfortable, instead of causing further confusion

Possibly because, at the moment, we don't know if we are going to have a proper "second wave" or a gradual upwards recovery towards where things once were - so Lothian are running an appropriate level of service for the current situation but may have to make cuts in future or improvements - nobody know how passenger numbers are going to be (e.g. in the light of the "groups of six" announcements)

Why wasn't X38 started in Aug 2018

I dont believe Lothian should be praise for carbon copying other companies routes, that doesn't make them a leader that just makes the a follower and that isn't the Lothian way

Or should we just say change LCB sogan to Lothian country buses " we copy First bus, it's the best we can do"

So you're criticising Lothian for copying First and also... criticising Lothian for not copying First sooner?

Everything Lothian did in West Lothian gets criticised - there are complaints when they directly copy a First route - there are complaints where they provide something First aren't doing (e.g. the X18 - on the grounds that "First withdrew from that corridor many years ago, so there's clearly no demand").

I'm not saying everything they've done has been brilliant (before someone uses the tedious "fanboy" insult), but it seems a wee bit unfair to complain that they are copying First routes at the same time that you complain that they didn't start an X38 years ago...

get the X40 council tender, integrating more it's networks to other parts of Edinburgh, etc etc plenty of good ideas out there

It's a council tender - i.e. not economically viable without subsidy (same as the 20/63, which people treat as if they were gold mines) - it'd fill gap on the map between existing Lothian services but I don't think it's going to be the money spinner that people assume (plus you're dealing with reliability on the bypass etc)

 

[overthewater]

If Lothian started the X38 it would have filled the gap left by First cuts back, however first saw the error of its ways and reinstated the 15mins service, at times those buses on 30mins timetable were rammed packed.. So its big difference on that point.

Service X40 may will be uneconomically at this time, but maybe not if Lothian takes it over, I never said it was a money spinner but it would be the first step to finally getting the Southern orbit bus network into place, if we dont try we may never know.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Everything Lothian did in West Lothian gets criticised - there are complaints when they directly copy a First route - there are complaints where they provide something First aren't doing (e.g. the X18 - on the grounds that "First withdrew from that corridor many years ago, so there's clearly no demand").

Most of the demand for the X18 i suspect is between Edinburgh to Broxburn and Broxburn - Whitburn rather than Edinburgh City Centre to Bathgate, so yes it's true in one sense that there isn't demand but the route works for other reasons, mainly that Broxburn - Bathgate link. I can understand why First axed the 20 but at the same time i can see how as a route it works, one of the places where First lack any service is between Broxburn and Bathgate, instead you have to take a tour of Livingston via the X25.

The X18 was one of LCs better ideas. It's pretty evident early on though that LC were trying to attract First passengers by bringing old services back. We saw that through the X18, original X27/X28 and 275 which were pretty much carbon copies of the 20, 27/28 and 21A that First replaced pre-August 2018. The 275 pre-covid was almost identical to the 21A give or take a few variations.

Service 21A route Map pre-2018.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So you're criticising Lothian for copying First and also... criticising Lothian for not copying First sooner?

Everything Lothian did in West Lothian gets criticised - there are complaints when they directly copy a First route - there are complaints where they provide something First aren't doing (e.g. the X18 - on the grounds that "First withdrew from that corridor many years ago, so there's clearly no demand").

I'm not saying everything they've done has been brilliant (before someone uses the tedious "fanboy" insult), but it seems a wee bit unfair to complain that they are copying First routes at the same time that you complain that they didn't start an X38 years ago...

Exactly - this is not a binary good/bad argument; it's much more nuanced than that.

That Lothian is criticised for copying routes is ridiculous; it makes perfect sense as those are where the established flows are. Similarly, it's not like they haven't been innovative with some of the network providing new/lost links. If they can reinstate a link that First couldn't make work and, by quality of service, marketing etc. they can turn a dime, then they should be applauded.

Taking on the @Jordan Adam point on the Green Arrow concept (and taking his view on what the concept rather than execution is), it was a brave and bold move to provide such services. From the outset, I questioned whether there was really the critical mass of people from Bathgate and Linlithgow (relatively small towns) who were so disaffected by Scotrail or lived peripherally or wanted to head to/from those points not served by rail (e.g. RBS).

It is fair to say that the timing, of the initial incursion and subsequent phases, has been a little curious. There may be valid reasons for not invading WL in 2015 but that doesn't take away from the fact that then doing so against a now stronger incumbent then leads to questioning as to why do it then? Similarly, the window for the X38 was lost.

However, it's much more than a simple Lothian are good/bad* or First are good/bad* (delete as appropriate)

 

[Graham Alexand]

Lothian Buses have scrapped the LothianCountry and EastCoastBuses websites. (Probably Temporarily)

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothiancountry.co.uk

https://www.eastcoastbuses.co.uk

Try the links.

 

[GusB]

Lothian Buses have scrapped the LothianCountry and EastCoastBuses websites.

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothiancountry.co.uk

https://www.eastcoastbuses.co.uk

Try the links.

I noticed the other day that the main Lothian site had brought everything under one banner. It doesn't really make sense to have separate domains, although they could at least have redirected traffic from those domains to lothianbuses.com or left a holding page.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Lothian Buses have scrapped the LothianCountry and EastCoastBuses websites. (Probably Temporarily)

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothiancountry.co.uk

https://www.eastcoastbuses.co.uk

Try the links.

Just as well i decided to download all the timetables since 2018 last night then!

 

[OmniCity999]

Lothian Buses have scrapped the LothianCountry and EastCoastBuses websites. (Probably Temporarily)

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothiancountry.co.uk

https://www.eastcoastbuses.co.uk

Try the links.

I noticed the other day that the main Lothian site had brought everything under one banner. It doesn't really make sense to have separate domains, although they could at least have redirected traffic from those domains to lothianbuses.com or left a holding page.

Back up now.

They were due an update and its easier to take them both down at once. Although i can see it all being merged long term.

 

[overthewater]

It was pretty clear the website were going to get merged and centralised into the main Lothian site, Is the SM operations going to merge? It make sense if they trying to have uniform platform for their operations.

###############

Back up now.

They were due an update and its easier to take them both down at once. Although i can see it all being merged long term.

I would suggest F5 the page.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Back up now.

They were due an update and its easier to take them both down at once. Although i can see it all being merged long term.

They're still down. It would make sense to just merge them, the LC website hadn't been updated since March and still had the old timetables.

 

[OmniCity999]

Deleted - stopped working for me now too.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Lothian Buses have scrapped the LothianCountry and EastCoastBuses websites. (Probably Temporarily)

Lothian Country - Lothian Buses

Lothian Country provides several services for the communities of Queensferry and West Lothian. Service 43 From Queensferry to Edinburgh city centre. View timetable. Service 72 From Livingston to Kirkliston via St. John’s Hospital. View timetable. Service 73 From Fauldhouse to Kirkliston. View...

www.lothiancountry.co.uk

https://www.eastcoastbuses.co.uk

Try the links.

Working for me?

Are we really at a point where a company can't update their websites without it being seen as a sign of their demise?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Working for me?

Are we really at a point where a company can't update their websites without it being seen as a sign of their demise?

Working for me now too. Albeit still all outdated timetables!

 

[Graham Alexand]

Working for me now too. Albeit still all outdated timetables!

I must have went to the website during the update.
It doesn't say anything on the website but i wonder if the travel shops in Edinburgh and the travel kiosk in Livingston are opening again tomorrow

Working for me?

Are we really at a point where a company can't update their websites without it being seen as a sign of their demise?

I came across it when i was looking for the 275 timetable, I wasn't thinking they were going into demise lol, I just thought it was strange that it was down.

I think it was down only for a day due to an update.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Appears the only thing that has changed is the banner at the top mentioning the service changes.

 

[overthewater]

That banner still takes you to the main Lothian website. It clear the two outlining websites are going to disappear however, it does not change the fact that having everything in on place is much better. See the integration with the main operations has already started.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Alot of vehicle movements today and tomorrow, looks like all the B5LHs are back at Longstone from LCB among others.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Alot of vehicle movements today and tomorrow, looks like all the B5LHs are back at Longstone from LCB among others.

LX11s aswell as zoo branded B5s at Marine

 

[Bus9120UK]

With Marine reopening from tomorrow, will the Shandwick Place TravelHub reopen to customers soon?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Appears the white E400 XLB's have been used for Driver Trainings. I will edit this post with an image if I get permission to use it.

 

[CN04NRJ]

With Marine reopening from tomorrow, will the Shandwick Place TravelHub reopen to customers soon?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Appears the white E400 XLB's have been used for Driver Trainings. I will edit this post with an image if I get permission to use it.

Have one on me (picture of white XLB on driver training)

 

[Graham Alexand]

Some of the old Lothian/Lothian Country B7RLE's have been sold to E&M Horsburgh, does anyone know which buses they are?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Some of the old Lothian/Lothian Country B7RLE's have been sold to E&M Horsburgh, does anyone know which buses they are?

711, 753-756, 758, 760, 761, 764, 766, 774 are the B7TLs there, and the Eclipses are 6 of 113-115, 120-122, 124-130

 

[Graham Alexand]

711, 753-756, 758, 760, 761, 764, 766, 774 are the B7TLs there, and the Eclipses are 6 of 113-115, 120-122, 124-130

Thanks Scotrail158725

EDIT
What is the difference between a Wright Eclipse 1 B7RLE and a Wright Eclipse 1 Urban?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Thanks Scotrail158725

EDIT
What is the difference between a Wright Eclipse 1 B7RLE and a Wright Eclipse 1 Urban?

Technically speaking there's no such thing as a "Wright Eclipse 1". Its Wright Eclipse Urban then Wright Eclipse 2. The main reason is because in the early 00s Wright also offered a body on the Volvo B7L chassis that was sold as the "Wright Eclipse Metro".

 

[Graham Alexand]

Technically speaking there's no such thing as a "Wright Eclipse 1". Its Wright Eclipse Urban then Wright Eclipse 2. The main reason is because in the early 00s Wright also offered a body on the Volvo B7L chassis that was sold as the "Wright Eclipse Metro".

Ok thanks

 

[Lothian285]

The ECB and LC website links now redirect you to the main Lothian website

 

[Bus9120UK]

The ECB and LC website links now redirect you to the main Lothian website

Surprised, just a few days ago they made a small edit and now the website's have completely been abandoned and now just redirect you to the main Lothian page. It does make sense though.

 

[OmniCity999]

The ECB and LC website links now redirect you to the main Lothian website

Surprised, just a few days ago they made a small edit and now the website's have completely been abandoned and now just redirect you to the main Lothian page. It does make sense though.

Easier to maintain one website than three, especially given certain circumstances.

Creates commonality within the company too.

I can see wider restructuring to reflect this too.

 

[overthewater]

Cust cutting has starting, in this instance it IS A GOOD IDEA.. I think Omni is right we will see wider restructuring taking place soon, again this could be bad but not all of it, and I bet some good will come out of it.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Cust cutting has starting, in this instance it IS A GOOD IDEA.. I think Omni is right we will see wider restructuring taking place soon, again this could be bad but not all of it, and I bet some good will come out of it.

im not sure whats not good about cost cutting?