Lothian PLC going to South Queensferry

[overthewater]

https://lothiancountry.co.uk/

We are proud to announce to the people of Queensferry that from the 4th June 2017 a brand new bus company called Lothiancountry will be commencing the operation of services from South Queensferry to Edinburgh following the withdrawal of services by Stagecoach.

Lothiancountry will be wholly owned by Lothian Buses but will operate as a standalone business with it’s own buses and products.

Historically two major transport providers First and Stagecoach have been unable to operate commercially viable services within this area with low patronage and increasing levels of traffic congestion contributing to their withdrawal.

The successful continuation of bus services is wholly dependent on customer usage levels – it’s important that the community embrace our new venture to ensure its ongoing success.

We have been working hard behind the scenes over the last few weeks gathering customer and journey time data, and working in partnership with the City of Edinburgh Council on the delivery of bus priority measures that ensure our ability to run reliable services which optimise journey times and deliver a positive customer experience.

( This is very big indeed, and will benefit Stagecoach aswell. )


Some of these measures have now been agreed for implementation:
* Traffic signal prioritisation at Princes Street/Queensferry Street junction and Queensferry Street/Melville Street
* A commitment that the existing citybound bus lane is not compromised on approach to Dean Bridge
* Review of parking restrictions on key arterial city routes to allow for passing places for buses
* There is, however, an ongoing need to look long term and strategically at traffic flows into the city:

 

[Fifescottish]

That wont be £1.60 single each way then, which is what residents want!

 

[overthewater]

That wont be £1.60 single each way then, which is what residents want!

Tough Cheese to them What there might get £2.50 single and £4 Zone ticket which covers all of Edinburgh.

 

[ChrisPJ]

I am sure the cheaper house prices in South Queensferry reflect the relative difficulty of getting into Edinburgh city centre (the higher bus fares can be considered a factor in that).

 

[ian1944]

Those who say that SQ in only 10 miles from the city centre, while Penicuik to the south is 11 and Seaton Sands to the east is 14 and both get £1.60 single fares, clearly want the same fare to the west. But the 37/47 and 26 routes are virtually continuously built up and have a lot of short-distance passengers as well as those going to/from the city, while there's a lot of open country between SQ and Barnton.

A better comparison would be Pencaitland, even further out but served by LB Sunday and evenings a few years ago (IIRC) at city fares despite the vast swathes of open country between there and the built-up area, but now in the shackles of ECB and their enhanced fares.

 

[overthewater]

Those who say that SQ in only 10 miles from the city centre, while Penicuik to the south is 11 and Seaton Sands to the east is 14 and both get £1.60 single fares, clearly want the same fare to the west. But the 37/47 and 26 routes are virtually continuously built up and have a lot of short-distance passengers as well as those going to/from the city, while there's a lot of open country between SQ and Barnton..

I find it strange NO ONE ever complains about Gorebridge which is on par with Penicuik, of course it has train station. Penicuik also has that large industry area with Ikea and the uni buildings inbetween.

SQ is getting bigger with even more housing being built, but queensferry route always picked up alot of city passengers.

A better comparison would be Pencaitland, even further out but served by LB Sunday and evenings a few years ago (IIRC) at city fares despite the vast swathes of open country between there and the built-up area, but now in the shackles of ECB and their enhanced fares.

There just recently brought there fares into line with East Coast buses and a certain stop to stop has caused a right storm.


http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/n...ice_criticised_for_60_per_cent_fare_increase/

A BUS service which was named the best in Scotland less than a year ago has been hit with complaints after it raised the cost of travelling from outlying villages by more than 60 per cent.

The 113 service, which runs from Pencaitland to the Western General Hospital in Edinburgh, received top accolades at the Scottish Transport Awards last year, when it was run under Lothian Country Buses.

However, the service transferred to the new East Coast Buses company on Monday. Although both companies are owned by Lothian Buses, the fare from Ormiston and Pencaitland into Tranent rose from £1.60 to £2.60.

East Lothian MSP Iain Gray said he had written to the bus company raising his concerns at a “step backwards” in the quality of the service. He said: “I have been very supportive of [Lothian Buses’] efforts, because they have been willing to invest in local services and expand them.

“It is a great pity that the decision to integrate Lothian Country Buses into the East Coast network appears to have been a step backwards for passengers in Pencaitland, Ormiston and Tranent.”

Mr Gray said he was aware, after the 113 extended its route to West Granton, about concerns over it becoming full of passengers travelling in Edinburgh itself, leaving no space for people who were trying to return to East Lothian.

He added: “The biggest issue, though, is what is happening to fares. A ticket from Ormiston or Pencaitland to Tranent would appear to have shot up from £1.60 to £2.60, daily tickets have also increased, and there is much confusion about what is happening to monthly tickets. I have asked Lothian for clarity, and hopefully some relief for bus passengers in Ormiston and Pencaitland who, after all, do not have any other public transport options.”

Ruth Currie and Tom Trotter, SNP candidates for East Lothian Council’s elections, also raised concerns after residents spoke of their anger at the price rise.

And they said that, while the service still stopped outside the Western General Hospital, it no longer circled the large complex.

Mrs Currie said: “Residents in Ormiston and Pencaitland have told us that they value the bus service to their villages, particularly as the 113 offered a direct route to the Western General. To have this cut has served a bitter blow to both communities.

Mr Trotter added: “It is extremely worrying that Lothian Buses has seen fit to increase the fare by £1 per journey. This price hike has been imposed on residents who are also getting a service cut.”

Lothian Buses insisted claims it had cut the service to the hospital were not true and it said the price increase brought the 113 in line with East Coast Buses pricing.

A spokesperson said: “Following an extensive network review designed to increase connectivity and provide further opportunities for travel by bus, our service 113 continues to provide a direct link to the Western General Hospital and now extends to serve Edinburgh College at West Granton.

“In addition, our recent investment of over £3m in a brand new fleet of specially designed buses for the comfort of our East Lothian customers further demonstrates our commitment to significantly improving bus services for residents of and visitors to the county.”

 

[JamboCommuter]

I wonder if this new company will serve other areas in addition to SQ?

Big market for decent bus services in Livingston I would have thought. Especially for express services to /from Edinburgh. The First bus out to Livvy is painfully slow.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[Blindtraveler]

A few points. No 1.60 tickets, route will most likely fail as people have already shown they woant pay mega money to sit on the A90 in a cue, and you can bet anyone bording at barnton will pay 1.60!

2. Traffic signal priority etc, just desperation/window dressing from the council and woant help much as the big issue is the west end/princes street and the blew their chances of no cues etc by building the trams.

3. Even if a single is dearer then the return/day product will need to be cheeper than the train as who will sit on a bus for ever when the trains, which admitedly are busy take 12 minutes?

Iether way it woant last IMO and there was a real chance to sort this one out good and propper!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting that they've resurrected the Lothian Country brand when that's just gone away on the eastern services.

 

[GusB]

I'm not there to be able to see it with my own eyes, but am I correct in thinking this will be their fourth "brand"?

- Lothian Buses
- East Lothian Buses
- East Coast Buses
- Lothian Country

 

[Bwsbro]

I'm not there to be able to see it with my own eyes, but am I correct in thinking this will be their fourth "brand"?

- Lothian Buses
- East Lothian Buses
- East Coast Buses
- Lothian Country

Lothian Country will be the 4th brand. However Lothian Country Buses Services now operate as East Coast Buses

 

[higthomas]

Why do Lothian buses want all these sub brands? Surely it would be easier and better to use the already well respected brand?

 

[smtglasgow]

Given the apparent difficulties of turning a profit on the South Queensferry run, I think this is probably a good compromise ie. Lothian’s high-quality operation, but at a higher cost than the city services. I’d agree that logically places like Peniculk and Midlothian *should* be paying more than the £1.60 city fare, but the PR hit will be too much for Lothian to even contemplate it. However, a brand new operation has no such legacy issues. Can’t see Lothian getting involved in running much further out into West Lothian, but might they have an eye on Kirkliston? Part of City of Edinburgh, planned to grow rapidly in the coming decade and served by a First operation that is still perceived (possibly unfairly) to be inferior to Lothian.

 

[overthewater]

Why do Lothian buses want all these sub brands? Surely it would be easier and better to use the already well respected brand?

Because of the different fares: Lothian has one set fare £1.60.

East Lothian Buses started in 2012 to replace 113, then it become Lothian Country buses when the 104 joined the network.

East Coast Buses was started to replace First in East Lothian but Lothian Country buses 104 and 113 was merged into East coast. The name was due to regulator etc

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fares make sense for there to be two brands, but is three maybe to do with TUPE?

 

[overthewater]

The fares make sense for there to be two brands, but is three maybe to do with TUPE?

TUPE was part of the reason East Coast buses started up, once that was cleared 113 and 104 was merged with the rest of the network.

The problems seem to be around this third brand. I dare say lothian never thought there would need to bring this back. I also get the feeling the fares will also be different..

Big market for decent bus services in Livingston I would have thought. Especially for express services to /from Edinburgh. The First bus out to Livvy is painfully slow.

First Tried an express network a while ago, remember the old X1? X2? It didn't work and the trains have completely killed of the chance.

There is surpose to be a new Park n ride opening at Heartlands @ Whiteburn at some point so Citylink coaches might pop in here, and that would open up more express access for that part of the council area.

 

[oldman]

I assume that Lothian Country Buses 2 will be like LCB1 (ne East Lothian Buses); just a way of charging higher fares than the standard Lothian Buses flat fare. Hopefully they will provide day tickets and ridacard season tickets as LCB1 did. If they provide a better timetable than Stagecoach did, and run closer to it, they should be OK.

The problem is with East Coast Buses. On the one hand they carry large number of passengers within the LB operating area and mght be unviable without them. To facilitate this they do very little limited-stop operation and accept LB ridacards and day tickets within the LB zone (but don't sell them).

On the other hand they present themselves as a completely separate company, although in a similar livery (same patterns, different colours). They offer no season tickets of their own and have withdrawn them from the LCB1 routes - combined with a botched zonal system giving some very high short-distance fares if you happen to cross a line on the map to give the massive fare increases and complaints referred further up the thread. To me it's a mess.

 

[higthomas]

I also don't see why they couldn't all be under the Lothian busses brand, but just have multiple zones? A city zone and the country zones A, B,C etc. They already manage to have two zones (airport zone) I think it would just make it much simpler to combine the brading websites etc.

 

[overthewater]

As it been said a few times, TUPE rules come along so there had to have different brand for the time being. Also Again Lothian buses has one fare, thats it: £1.60 while East coast has five fare zones. Have one brand and you'll have all passengers complaining about why there don't get the £1.60 fare

 

[ChrisPJ]

Don't think anything is subject to TUPE this time round. New company, can register what they like, charge what they like and pay the staff what they like. If the fares are not seen as reasonable there will be a loss of goodwill from potential passengers, but on the other hand the community should show some gratitude rather than just bitch on about one pound bloody sixty fares (not that there's been any announcement whatsoever about that)

 

[overthewater]

Don't think anything is subject to TUPE this time round. New company, can register what they like, charge what they like and pay the staff what they like. If the fares are not seen as reasonable there will be a loss of goodwill from potential passengers, but on the other hand the community should show some gratitude rather than just bitch on about one pound bloody sixty fares (not that there's been any announcement whatsoever about that)

We were talking about why Lothian has so many brands.

Also the reason the public are not happy is because of ONE important FACT:
https://lothianbuses.co.uk/timetables-and-maps/timetables/63

Lothian already operates to the Ferry with the £1.60 fare....

The fares will be higher, why use different livery/brand?

 

[takno]

We were talking about why Lothian has so many brands.

Also the reason the public are not happy is because of ONE important FACT:
https://lothianbuses.co.uk/timetables-and-maps/timetables/63

Lothian already operates to the Ferry with the £1.60 fare....

The fares will be higher, why use different livery/brand?

If the complaints continue along those lines I would have thought bringing the 63 into the new brand and new pricing was more likely than reducing the proposed price for the express bus into the middle of town.

 

[overthewater]

There can't, its a council contract.

 

[carlberry]

As it been said a few times, TUPE rules come along so there had to have different brand for the time being. Also Again Lothian buses has one fare, thats it: £1.60 while East coast has five fare zones. Have one brand and you'll have all passengers complaining about why there don't get the £1.60 fare

TUPE dosent effect the brand or the fares. It just means that staff have to be taken on with existing terms and conditions. The 'receiving' entity may want to move them to a new company if they offer better terms and conditions to their existing staff, however that dosent have to effect fares or brand.

 

[sng7]

TUPE dosent effect the brand or the fares. It just means that staff have to be taken on with existing terms and conditions. The 'receiving' entity may want to move them to a new company if they offer better terms and conditions to their existing staff, however that dosent have to effect fares or brand.

But the competition commission (I think) did tell Lothian they had to keep east coast separate until they had investigates the takeover.

 

[overthewater]

But the competition commission (I think) did tell Lothian they had to keep east coast separate until they had investigates the takeover.

At least someone is on the ball here.

 

[oldman]

But Lothian did not have to set up a separate company to acquire the assets and TUPE the staff - they chose to. Because they did the CMA could tell them to keep it separate during the investigation.

 

[overthewater]

But Lothian did not have to set up a separate company to acquire the assets and TUPE the staff - they chose to. Because they did the CMA could tell them to keep it separate during the investigation.

How would that have worked with Lothian buses brand?

 

[mbonwick]

The CMA issuing a Hold Separate order has nothing to do with setting up a new company (or not) to purchase another.

All it means is that the aquired company cannot be asset stripped or integrated into other operations - so that it can be sold again as a functional concern if the CMA aren't happy with the tkeover.

 

[oldman]

How would that have worked with Lothian buses brand?

You could have had for East Lothian:

LB company, LB brand
LB company, separate brand (like Airlink)
Separate company, same brand (like FSE/Midland Bluebird)
Separate company, separate brand