Lothian PLC going to South Queensferry

[overthewater]

Separate company, same brand (like FSE/Midland Bluebird)

But that what East Coast buses is, FSE/Bluebird are two sperate licenses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But that what East Coast buses is, FSE/Bluebird are two sperate licenses.

To be honest, I think you're confusing yourself between TUPE, legislation, operating licenses etc

TUPE is a statutory piece of EU legislation (though it can be interpreted slightly differently in different countries) - it basically protects your established terms and conditions (but not pensions) if the business that you work for is purchased or the activities that you are engaged in are transferred to another business. There are many firms that have a multitude of different terms and conditions for employees because of TUPE. How this is then managed is not proscribed. Some may set up separate firms but the vast, vast majority don't. They employ a range of different internal measures to manage this variance or they ignore it.

So what of separating firms and operations. You can have a separate O license but you can, of course, have any number of liveries and brands on a single license. TC's have also sought for operators to reduce the number of O licenses they have (e.g. the amalgamation of the two First licenses based on Bristol).

So if not a new entity, why a new brand? They probably have their own reasons such as fare structures?

What is is different from the Musselburgh and North Berwick ones is (as described already) where the operations and business had to be placed in a state of torpor at the instruction of the CMA whilst they assessed whether to allow or demand divestment.

 

[oldman]

I am reluctant to argue with people who know what they are talking about, but ECB launched in mid-August and the CMA orders were in mid-September. Much of what they ordered was only possible because Lothian had created ECB. For example, one requirement is:

the Acquired Business’ separate sales or brand identity is maintained

The acquired business's brand identity was in fact First East Lothian! Lothian created the ECB brand identity. They could have launched new services under the LB brand and with LB ticketing. Or they could have extended existing LB routes rather than introducing a separate network.

The CMA orders are based on ECB being a separate business (they refer to Lothian acquiring the 'East Coast Bus Business') but it was Lothian who made it a separate business. CMA might have made different orders eg not selling the depots, but not the orders they did make.

 

[DunsBus]

Now up on VOSA. Registered on the Lothian licence - and it was rather obvious which service number they were going to use!

Bus registration details

Registration number PM0000002/410
Licence Number PM0000002
Variation number 0
Status New
Service number. 43, X43
Service type Normal Stopping
Start point St Andrews Square Edinburgh
Finish point Queensferry Sommerville Gardens
Via
Date received 12 May 2017
Effective date 04 Jun 2017
End date
Supported by subsidies? No
Local authorities covered by route The City of Edinburgh Council
TAOs covered by route Scotland

 

[overthewater]

Its back to the old 43 idea.
https://lothiancountry.co.uk/

The fare is £2.60 single from Edinburgh into the Queensferry, the day ticket is the same price as Stagecoach at £5 but will included ALL of the lothian buses network.

 

[DunsBus]

Its back to the old 43 idea.
https://lothiancountry.co.uk/

The fare is £2.60 single from Edinburgh into the Queensferry, the day ticket is the same price as Stagecoach at £5 but will included ALL of the lothian buses network.

Not quite as the £5 CityWEST day ticket excludes the Airlink, Skylink and ECB services east of Tranent and Prestonpans. However the Network day ticket at £9 allows travel on the full network, Airlink and Skylink included.

 

[overthewater]

To be fair that no Lothian branded buses operate east of Tranent and Prestonpans I think most commuters will buy the Ridacard.

 

[DunsBus]

To be fair that no Lothian branded buses operate east of Tranent and Prestonpans I think most commuters will buy the Ridacard.

The day tickets will likely tap into the tourist market. Travel from Queensferry to Dunbar and back for £9.00 has to be a bargain, especially when it allows travel across the full network.

 

[overthewater]

The day tickets will likely tap into the tourist market. Travel from Queensferry to Dunbar and back for £9.00 has to be a bargain, especially when it allows travel across the full network.

I hope Lothian tell tell the tourist, I have feeling the three bridge tour buses will be promoted more

Also I was pretty close with my guess for the cost of a single ticket, just 10p cheaper.

 

[317 forever]

Lothian Buses are effectively the third operator of the Edinburgh - South Queensferry service in the last 5 years or so. It had been First then Stagecoach.

It seems that Lothian is now the main operator in Edinburgh, the exceptions being Stagecoach to Fife, First to Livingston, Falkirk etc and WCM Border Buses to Berwick & the Borders.

 

[90019]

Now up on VOSA. Registered on the Lothian licence - and it was rather obvious which service number they were going to use!

To start with, it's being operated out of Central by single deck drivers, presumably until they can get it set up as a separate operation.
Why they're using single deck drivers for what is a decker route, I don't understand.

 

[overthewater]

Because there short of staff and over stretched. Also it very unlikely it will be given a separate operation since its on the No2 reg.

 

[90019]

Because there short of staff and over stretched. Also it very unlikely it will be given a separate operation since its on the No2 reg.

I was meaning I don't understand why it's been given to the single deck drivers rather than the decker drivers, since there's lots more of them.

The variety will make a nice change, but it just doesn't make that much sense to me doing it this way.

 

[overthewater]

I was meaning I don't understand why it's been given to the single deck drivers rather than the decker drivers, since there's lots more of them.

The variety will make a nice change, but it just doesn't make that much sense to me doing it this way.

Don't single decker driver get a lower wage rate? There are trying every trick in the book to cut costs. I dont think the route will work and I do think it will only get by because of Queensferry road passengers.

People at Scotstoun and Echline area now have big increase in travel times, so only use this bus if needs be.

 

[90019]

Don't single decker driver get a lower wage rate?

Same pay, but single deck drIvers don't get paid breaks, amongst other differences in conditions.

If a double deck bus goes out on a single deck route from the depot, there's a payment that gets made to all the single deck drivers who have it as part of their shift that day - as an example, the sunday 47s getting deckers during the festival.
The payment doesn't apply for buses changed over on the street where only a decker is available.

It's slightly confusing because it's a double deck route being operated by single deck drivers, and nobody seems to be sure what's actually happening, especially in terms of pay.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sounds like everything Lothian seam to be doing these days, cheep and confusing to everyone at every level.

 

[TUC]

Same pay, but single deck drIvers don't get paid breaks, amongst other differences in conditions.
.

Why should it being a single or double decker make any differences to breaks?

 

[Blindtraveler]

In brief single and decker men/women have some variations in their Ts and Cs. I'll let 90019 explain propperly, just as soon as hes finished removing his tie!
Anyone who wishes to understand this comment better throw Lothian Bus Drivers Ties at google.

 

[90019]

In brief single and decker men/women have some variations in their Ts and Cs.

That's basically it.
Single and double deck drivers are on different contracts, with different conditions. The paid breaks was just an example.

Getting someone who is contracted to drive single deck routes to drive a double deck route as part of their rota without paying the usual payment or altering their conditions is a bit of an issue.

I'm sure it'll get resolved, but I don't currently know what's happening.

 

[overthewater]

I don't know about that, there alot of unhappyness over the current management, yet the bus routes are in better shape.

If in case you lot never know TC has refused to allow Lothian to start on the 4th, there will know start on Monday 5th. I dare say because there took so long in getting the applicant in.

 

[4cryingoutloud]

I dare say because there took so long in getting the applicant in.

Very doubtful. TC's will normally allow short-notice registrations up to the wire for replacement services, as long as the local authority supports it. However, if Stagecoach are running the service on the 4th, then the TC has probably said the replacement can only start after the original service finishes - hence the 5th.

 

[anti-pacer]

In terms of 4 different brand names, which not reduce it down 2 brands? How about;

Lothian City
Lothian Country

(For the airport bus, "Lothian City Airlink").

 

[DunsBus]

Very doubtful. TC's will normally allow short-notice registrations up to the wire for replacement services, as long as the local authority supports it. However, if Stagecoach are running the service on the 4th, then the TC has probably said the replacement can only start after the original service finishes - hence the 5th.

It would also be nonsensical to have both the old service finishing and the new one starting on the same day.

I dare day that yet again OTW has made a post based on his opinion and his opinion alone.

 

[overthewater]

If people remember Stagecoach give far more advance warning than what was needed. Thus if Lothian had put it in within the correct time frame, the TC can't really stop it, but it only went in just of late.

Mind you again there nothing stopping Lothian running it Free on Sunday....

 

[overthewater]

In terms of 4 different brand names, which not reduce it down 2 brands? How about;

Lothian City
Lothian Country

(For the airport bus, "Lothian City Airlink").

Alas your mist out the tours so were back at 4 again

 

[overthewater]

Today is the Last day for Stagecoach and tomorrow its all change, Lothian has also come out of the Bus station to save even more money. Its seen members of staff are out and about handing out details of the new bus starting tomorrow.

 

[oldman]

Stopping a few yards outside the bus station entrance will save time - I count seven less sets of lights on a round trip - and improve reliability, which was a big problem with Stagecoach.

 

[overthewater]

Lets see if ECC will bother to do something about the Ryans bar junction, I doubt it but its nice to believe. I wonder if Lothian are also waiting to see the new motorway/ bus lanes open first before seeing if its possible to operate down the M90 with the express work.

 

[overthewater]

A new major housing development is about to get going in the Queensferry area, which should help No43. How is the service going? Its still to slow for my liking.

 

[overthewater]

The Xmas timetables have appeared: Key points:

* No xmas day service.
* Reduced Boxing day service
* There is new years day service but its only hourly and its seems strange since Stagecoach still managed to operate every 15mins last year for this event. https://www.edinburghshogmanay.com/whats-on/loony-dook1