Loud rail sound on Victora Line?

Discussion in 'London Underground' started by heart-of-wessex, 19 Nov 2019.

  1. heart-of-wessex

    heart-of-wessex Established Member

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    Hello all,

    Out with a friend on Saturday, took the Victoria Line from Oxford Circus to Victoria, and somewhere between Oxford Circus & Green Park (I believe, or Green Park to Victoria) was a rather loud sort of rubbing sort of sound, a bit hard to describe and he said to me 'what is it making that noise?'

    I couldn't answer as I don't actually know, I found a bit of the sound I'm trying to describe in this video:



    Skip to 01:47 and it start's from there and carries on to 01:57 then it stops, doesn't capture the volume well but to the ear it's very loud.

    Anyone know what that sound may be as he's interested to know out of curiosity.


    Thank you,

    James.
     
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  3. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Sounds like rail roar caused by serrations on the railhead as a result of recent rail grinding.
     
  4. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Don’t ask for a source for this, however something in my mind rings a bell that some years ago there was a short piece of experimental track installed on the southbound between OXC and GRP.

    I can’t recall its purpose, but in reality it was a short section which had a particularly distinctive (and loud!) noise - hence why it sticks in the mind as the loud noise was both very conspicuous and very distinctive. It lasted for a few seconds at line speed.

    I’ve no idea if this may be related, but from memory it was more or less at the place in question. However, the sound on the recording is different, and suggests rail grinding has taken place in the area. If the experimental section is still there (this would have been early 2000s as it was going some way back into 67 stock days) then the sound may have been modified by grinding.

    I have some track formation plans for LU, but I think they only cover the ex Tube Lines lines.

    More recently there is an ongoing issue on LU due to the installation of a new type of track formation aimed at reduction vibration on curves in association with the advent of night Tube. Unfortunately it was successful at reducing vibration but at a cost of massively increasing noise. LU has mitigated against this by a rushed programme of rail grinding, rushed once the threat of strikes loomed not because of the massive mailbox of passenger complaints! I can’t say if this may apply to the location in question however.
     
    Last edited: 20 Nov 2019
  5. big all

    big all On Moderation

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    worth noting
    if small flats on wheels are gained on a curve due to the weight off the train leaning in that direction that specific noise will only be heard when the train wheel area damaged touches the rail head
    this is because the wheel is conical and the railhead is curved so a small say 5mm bit off damage on the wheel will only be heard when that part off the wheel tread s in contact with the rail
     
  6. Shaw S Hunter

    Shaw S Hunter Established Member

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    That sounds very much like the after effects of rail-grinding. Many years ago on a visit to family in London I experienced exactly the same, on a different stretch of the Victoria Line, and was told that LU (or LRT?) had put up notices informing passengers of this and that it would soon go away through natural wear.
     
  7. TRAX

    TRAX Member

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    So this would be the sound of fresh rail ?
    I’ve always thought/been told that this was the sound of air/wind going under the train...
     
  8. TrainTube

    TrainTube Member

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    I believe as others have mentioned it is to do with rail grinding. There are similar sections on the South Western Mainline where there is a sound like that, much deeper and very loud from the outside.
     
  9. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    You also get the "roaring" from rail corrugation. That's one of the things grinding is intended to rectify.
     
  10. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    The effects of grinding has been mentioned here many times. I presume that is because the grinding head/wheel goes at right-angles to the direction of travel. Is there a particular reason why that is done or could the grinding be done at an angle - say 45 degrees which would reduce the noise as the wheels would be continuously supported by the ridges left by the grinding?
     
  11. TRAX

    TRAX Member

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    So does the sound come from disformed track or freshly grinded track, then ? Documents that I've found online seem to suggest that damaged/corrugated rails cause that sound, so how could it logically still be audible after the grinding ?
     
  12. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    The corrugated rails cause a different sound to the grinding. Corrugation causes a roaring sound, whilst grinding causes a whistling sound. For this specific section I think there may be a different reason - namely a different kind of track form creating the initial noise, which has then been modified by grinding. Otherwise the grinding sound would simply be fairly consistent through the section, which it isn't.
     
  13. TRAX

    TRAX Member

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    Hmm I wouldn't mind two videos where I can compare those two sounds, to make sure we're all on the same wave length...
     
  14. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    There are numerous grinding wheels at various angles. But there’ll always be one of them that makes that last pass. Video here:
     
  15. Lewlew

    Lewlew Member

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    Bakerloo line in the Paddington area northbound has just been done this weekend if you want to hear it. Other stations in that area have been done last week. The grinder is stabled at Queen's Park at the moment so will be doing other parts of the line over the coming nights.
     

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