Low speed buffer collision at London Kings Cross 15/08/17

[voyagerdude220]

Hi all,

Apparently 2R23 05:13 Royston to London Kings Cross has been involved in a collision with a buffer stop at London Kings Cross.

Two customers have reported minor injuries.

 

[AM9]

Hi all,

Apparently 2R23 05:13 Royston to London Kings Cross has been involved in a collision with a buffer stop at London Kings Cross.

Two customers have reported minor injuries.

That's something that gratefully shouldn't happen when they go through the Thameslink core.

 

[ComUtoR]

That's something that gratefully shouldn't happen when they go through the Thameslink core.

It's something that shouldn't happen anywhere without buffer stops :roll:

 

[edwin_m]

That's the third at KX within a few years I think. A difficult terminus because of the steep descent approaching it, plus the suburban platforms being shorter?

 

[AM9]

It's something that shouldn't happen anywhere without buffer stops :roll:

My point exactly. On Thameslink, they would have all the way to Brighton to stop.

 

[AM9]

That's the third at KX within a few years I think. A difficult terminus because of the steep descent approaching it, plus the suburban platforms being shorter?

Don't they have TPWS?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Its a 387..

https://twitter.com/ferozwala/status/897364639335448577

Thanks,
Ross

 

[2HAP]

Steep descent? I thought the line through the tunnel was on a rising gradient approaching KX.

 

[dk1]

Don't they have TPWS?

Of course but then you often accelerate after depending on gradient. It's only a low speed collision thankfully.

 

[ComUtoR]

Don't they have TPWS?

Have you ever wondered how and why trains hit buffers although there is TPWS ?

TPWS is mitigation more than prevention. It's very easy to cruise past the grids and still hit to buffers. There is also nothing to prevent you from taking more power either, which I believe, happened the last time.

 

[bramling]

Don't they have TPWS?

What difference would that make if the train passes the TPWS grid at the correct speed but then fails to make a final brake application for whatever reason?

 

[bramling]

That's something that gratefully shouldn't happen when they go through the Thameslink core.

This has to get an award for being one of the silliest posts I've ever read.

 

[dk1]

This has to get an award for being one of the silliest posts I've ever read.

I've heard they are going to build a super loop around Brighton now to avoid the dreaded buffer stops before heading North again

 

[bramling]

That's the third at KX within a few years I think. A difficult terminus because of the steep descent approaching it, plus the suburban platforms being shorter?

The tunnel is a descending gradient, but once the train slows to 15 mph just before the tunnel exit it's normally necessary to take power briefly for the final run into the station. From that point there is still a good 200m remaining to the buffer stops for the suburban platforms - this incident appears to have involved platform 9. I wouldn't have said this is particularly difficult - any potential adhesion issues should be avoided by the approach being in tunnel.

 

[otomous]

What difference would that make if the train passes the TPWS grid at the correct speed but then fails to make a final brake application for whatever reason?

Bang!

 

[otomous]

This has to get an award for being one of the silliest posts I've ever read.

I fear AM9 is pulling your leg

 

[MartinB1]

Don't they have TPWS?

I'm sure they do on the approach to the buffers, however when approaching buffer stops providing the train is going below 10 mph over the grids it's ok. Besides TPWS is designed to reduce the impact of a mistake not prevent it. Stopping at buffer stops is a skill in itself, particularly on for example 444's/450's where you have a holding brake and a slight delay when you adjust the braking. I have grown to really enjoy driving them, however approaching buffers still keeps you on your toes!

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[Bromley boy]

I'm sure they do on the approach to the buffers, however when approaching buffer stops providing the train is going below 10 mph over the grids it's ok. Besides TPWS is designed to reduce the impact of a mistake not prevent it. Stopping at buffer stops is a skill in itself, particularly on for example 444's/450's where you have a holding brake and a slight delay when you adjust the braking. I have grown to really enjoy driving them, however approaching buffers still keeps you on your toes!

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Not helped by the fact the grids are quite a long way back from the buffers (30m at most locations, from memory). The requirement to be down to less than 10mph at this point means the subsequent crawl along to the buffers is surprisingly lengthy and becomes quite monotonous.

One distraction at the crucial point or lapse in concentration is all it takes...

 

[GW43125]

Noting from the picture that, like the incident in Brighton, the front gangway has taken most of the force. Why don't they put buffers on trains anymore so that in the event of a collision, the buffer stop gets a fair whack rather than the train crumpling at the front?

 

[dtaylor84]

Noting from the picture that, like the incident in Brighton, the front gangway has taken most of the force. Why don't they put buffers on trains anymore so that in the event of a collision, the buffer stop gets a fair whack rather than the train crumpling at the front?

Because it's better for the people on the train if the front crumples, rather than the chassis taking a "fair whack"?

 

[GW43125]

Because it's better for the people on the train if the front crumples, rather than the chassis taking a "fair whack"?

Fair point.

 

[Chris M]

Noting from the picture that, like the incident in Brighton, the front gangway has taken most of the force. Why don't they put buffers on trains anymore so that in the event of a collision, the buffer stop gets a fair whack rather than the train crumpling at the front?

Because it's better for the people on the train if the front crumples, rather than the chassis taking a "fair whack"?

I'm sure I've seen somewhere* buffers that are designed to mate with the central coupler and for the buffers to do the deforming/giving way slowly so the train doesn't need to.

*Possibly London Overground, definitely somewhere with Dellner couplers.

 

[PermitToTravel]

It's something that shouldn't happen anywhere without buffer stops :roll:

It shouldn't happen anywhere with buffer stops either!

 

[Chris M]

I'm sure I've seen somewhere* buffers that are designed to mate with the central coupler and for the buffers to do the deforming/giving way slowly so the train doesn't need to.

*Possibly London Overground, definitely somewhere with Dellner couplers.

I've found a photo of some like this at Richmond platforms 5 and 6:

(click for a larger version)

 

[jon0844]

This has to get an award for being one of the silliest posts I've ever read.

I smiled as my evil inner self imagined this being used as a form of marketing to 'sell' the changes in 2018!

 

[rebmcr]

I've found a photo of some like this at Richmond platforms 5 and 6:

(click for a larger version)

Note also the ribbed areas designed to interlock with the anti-ride-up blocks on the carriage, where the buffers would traditionally be.

 

[swt_passenger]

Note also the ribbed areas designed to interlock with the anti-ride-up blocks on the carriage, where the buffers would traditionally be.

Is the theory that the "anti-ride-up blocks" are at a standard height on modern units, and on the various Electrostar variants they are still there in exactly the same place but hidden from view behind what is a fairly weak GRP shroud that will shatter? I suppose Voyagers are the same set up, another Bombardier design?

 

[rebmcr]

Is the theory that the "anti-ride-up blocks" are at a standard height on modern units, and on the various Electrostar variants they are still there in exactly the same place but hidden from view behind what is a fairly weak GRP shroud that will shatter? I suppose Voyagers are the same set up, another Bombardier design?

Don't know, yes, and yes.

London Underground stock variably has them on the rubbing plates (and the corresponding locations on buffer stops), or as enormous spikes up the sides of the emergency gangways.

 

[Chris M]

The spikes around the emergency gangways on TfL stock are intended to stop pax using gaps between carriages to self-evacuate in an incident. A central piece was added above the doorways after people used the spikes as ladders during the Holland Park incident (last year?).

 

[AM9]

What difference would that make if the train passes the TPWS grid at the correct speed but then fails to make a final brake application for whatever reason?

It was a question. The funny squiggly character at the end of the sentence is a bit of a clue.