Lower Fare Rises for Wales?

[Greenback]

The BBC has learned that fare rises for ATW will be limited to RPI + 1%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14976876

It seems that the WG would prefer that passengers should not bear as much of the subsidy burden as in England and more money should come from the central taxation pot instead.

 

[anthony263]

Just read this and was going to post a thread on it however you have beat me to it greenback.

I think the welsh assembly have got it right and lets hope they actually invest in rail infrastructure in wales rather than messing about.

I have been warned to expect an annoucement in the new few months on the gowerton re-doubling.

Maybe the WG could also find the money to build the station at Energlyn in Caerphilly, they have been going on about it since 2001

 

[Greenback]

I hope that this is evidence of a positive approach to Welsh public transport. If they do commit to gowerton redoubling and Energlyn, then that would be further good news!

 

[anthony263]

I do hope they can get the wires to Swansea as i have said before FGW have suggested splitting the Cardiff - Taunton service at Bristol and instead run an hourly stopping service between Swansea & Bristol TM using emu's which should give the 2nd electric train per hour between Cardiff & Swansea.

I would be great for gowerton to no longer be a request stop and would benefit commuters traveling into Swansea and perahps to Cardiff & beyond.

 

[tirphil]

Good news regarding developments along the southern corridor. Are any annoucements due regarding re-opening of Llangefni (perhaps even Amlwch) - Gaerwen and hourly service for the Cambrian?

 

[anthony263]

Good news regarding developments along the southern corridor. Are any annoucements due regarding re-opening of Llangefni (perhaps even Amlwch) - Gaerwen and hourly service for the Cambrian?

I hearc that they want the cambrian to go hourly i think the problem is a lack of rolling stock and b perhaps they are waiting for the new signalling system to settle down

that line to Amlech could be getting re-opened i know the wag and network rail are in favour.

I am now waiting for network rail to publish their studdy on electrifying the valley lines

 

[es373]

They are investing in rail there. They are running ERTMS signalling so I hear!

 

[tirphil]

Thankyou for your prompt replies!

 

[Oliver]

The BBC has learned that fare rises for ATW will be limited to RPI + 1%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14976876

It seems that the WG would prefer that passengers should not bear as much of the subsidy burden as in England and more money should come from the central taxation pot instead.

Does anyone know how much this will cost? It will be roughly 2% of ATW's annual farebox income (how much is that?), and presumably have a cumulative effect on future years' income/subsidy.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ahemm ....considerations going on.

RPI+1 applies also to Scotland - the commuting market in Wales is a lot more sensitive to price / opportunity costs than say in the SE where salaries are overall higher in relation to train fares. Yes - I know all about cost of living in the SE thank you.

 

[Gareth Marston]

• Car parking cost in central Cardiff are horrendous.
• ATW get roughly £140 million subsidy and £90 million fare box.
• The revised National Transport Plan is due to be announced in "the autumn". The outgoing Transport Minister signed off £300million of road construction contracts before April, I suspect that this will hog the budget for the next few years.

 

[tbtc]

Interesting move.

I wonder whether this means the WAG would rather concentrate on small scale improvements that will make a small but noticeable benefit to everyone, rather than "flagship" projects (like electrification) which would only benefit certain lines?

 

[WatcherZero]

Their saying they are only committing to next years being 1%, not the two following years (England its 3% for 3 years then back to 1% again).

 

[Greenback]

It would be difficult politically for the WG to follow the London based administration on fares. By not committing themselves to RPI + 1% they have allopwed themselves flexibility to allow for a range of options which are still below the rises in England.

Though I don't expect it to happen, it could even be a freeze on fares!

 

[WatcherZero]

Governments and public organisations plan budgets in 3 or 5 year timescales though, they dont just budget for the following year alone. They will have budgeted for years 2 and 3 even if their not saying what it is.

 

[pemma]

England its 3% for 3 years then

a general election so anything could happen the year after.

 

[Greenback]

Their forecasts for three and five years ahead are invariably incorrect, and need tweaking from year to year in any case. In that respect it's all smoke and mirrors!

In any case, we can't say what the WG plans are for the enxt 3 to 5 years, as they haven't even made this official yet.

 

[mallard]

And once again devolution means a better deal for Scotland and Wales, at the expense of the English.

Why don't we have an "English Assembly" and leave parliament for UK-wide issues? At the very least we should stop Scottish and Welsh MPs from voting on matters that don't affect their constituencies.

Unfortunately it probably won't happen any time soon, anyone who promotes an "English" national identity is immediately called a racist and lumped in with the likes of the BNP and EDF before they even open their mouths, while the SNP and Plaid Cymru are completely immune from criticism.

(Sorry for the rant... )

 

[Greenback]

I wholeheartedly agree with the concept of an English Assembly. I am surprised that more English people don't seem to want one.

 

[Minstral25]

And once again devolution means a better deal for Scotland and Wales, at the expense of the English.

Why don't we have an "English Assembly" and leave parliament for UK-wide issues? At the very least we should stop Scottish and Welsh MPs from voting on matters that don't affect their constituencies.

Unfortunately it probably won't happen any time soon, anyone who promotes an "English" national identity is immediately called a racist and lumped in with the likes of the BNP and EDF before they even open their mouths, while the SNP and Plaid Cymru are completely immune from criticism.

(Sorry for the rant... )

Yes I agree but I think something will happen as the English people (whatever Colour or Creed) are getting more and more fed up being treated as second class citizens of this nation!

As per Shakespeare [almost] "There's something rotten in the state of Britain"

 

[tbtc]

And once again devolution means a better deal for Scotland and Wales, at the expense of the English.

Why don't we have an "English Assembly" and leave parliament for UK-wide issues? At the very least we should stop Scottish and Welsh MPs from voting on matters that don't affect their constituencies.

Unfortunately it probably won't happen any time soon, anyone who promotes an "English" national identity is immediately called a racist and lumped in with the likes of the BNP and EDF before they even open their mouths, while the SNP and Plaid Cymru are completely immune from criticism.

(Sorry for the rant... )

As I said in my post above, this could be the Welsh deciding to spend their share of the rail budget on "small" improvements (which benefit everyone), rather than on big projects that only improve certain corridors (Thameslink upgrade, Crossrail, HS2 etc). If the true story is "Wales decides to spend its share of the transport budget on cheaper fares instead of on infrastructure improvements" then that's not them benefiting "at the expense of the English".

Bear in mind that the busiest lines in Wales (the Valley lines) are still stuck with the same 1980s combination of Pacers and 150s (the only post-privatisation stock used by the Wales and Borders franchise are the 175s which are of use to the North Wales coast, but don't benefit the busier Valleys lines). Grass isn't always greener (not even the "green green grass).

The problem with the "English only" idea is that there are some things that are "English only" (which only English MPs/representatives could vote on), but then there are a number of things which are "England and Wales" - how would you do that? Scotland is "more different" (due to a different legal system, a different education system), but any "English Assembly" would have to decide what to do about things which are "England and Wales" - would this need to be yet another level of beaurocracy? A UK Parliament, an "England and Wales" parliament, an English assembly... thats only going to make things more complicated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes I agree but I think something will happen as the English people (whatever Colour or Creed) are getting more and more fed up being treated as second class citizens of this nation!

As per Shakespeare [almost] "There's something rotten in the state of Britain"

Transport spending per head of population is significantly higher in south east England than anywhere else.

There are areas of Wales that have had money spent on them (the Cambrian line has soaked up huge amounts of money due to the ERTMS mess), but south Wales has more Pacers per head of population than most areas.

 

[Greenback]

The problem with the "English only" idea is that there are some things that are "English only" (which only English MPs/representatives could vote on), but then there are a number of things which are "England and Wales" - how would you do that? Scotland is "more different" (due to a different legal system, a different education system), but any "English Assembly" would have to decide what to do about things which are "England and Wales" - would this need to be yet another level of beaurocracy? A UK Parliament, an "England and Wales" parliament, an English assembly... thats only going to make things more complicated.

My preference would be to seperate Wales and England! It would take time, but then all of the home countries would be on an equal footing!

 

[tbtc]

My preference would be to seperate Wales and England! It would take time, but then all of the home countries would be on an equal footing!

It would be interesting but messy!

As a Scot, I didn't appreciate when growing up how many of the differences between Scotland and England didn't exist between England and Wales. They even share a Cricket team...

• No separate Welsh legal system
• No separate Welsh education system
• No separate Welsh currency

(etc)

 

[mallard]

If the true story is "Wales decides to spend its share of the transport budget on cheaper fares instead of on infrastructure improvements" then that's not them benefiting "at the expense of the English".

Considering that the Welsh Assembly (and Scottish Parliament) receive (most of) their funding from the central Treasury and that there is no similar arrangement for England, all of their money is somewhat "at the expense of the English".

The problem with the "English only" idea is that there are some things that are "English only" (which only English MPs/representatives could vote on), but then there are a number of things which are "England and Wales" - how would you do that?

Keep "England and Wales" things in the UK parliament, just prevent Scottish MPs from voting on them.

 

[Squaddie]

Yes I agree but I think something will happen as the English people (whatever Colour or Creed) are getting more and more fed up being treated as second class citizens of this nation!

As per Shakespeare [almost] "There's something rotten in the state of Britain"

I think you'll find that most - if not all - citizens of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland would fully support the creation of an English assembly: it's the English themselves that can't be bothered to do something about it. So please don't moan about the benefits that the other parts of the UK apparently enjoy.

 

[Greenback]

It would be interesting but messy!

As a Scot, I didn't appreciate when growing up how many of the differences between Scotland and England didn't exist between England and Wales. They even share a Cricket team...

• No separate Welsh legal system
• No separate Welsh education system
• No separate Welsh currency

(etc)

In my opinion it's only fair that all of the countries in the UK have an equal status. The differences between them are an historical anachronism!

I want a Welsh currency, a Welsh education & legal system, and even a Welsh cricket team!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Considering that the Welsh Assembly (and Scottish Parliament) receive (most of) their funding from the central Treasury and that there is no similar arrangement for England, all of their money is somewhat "at the expense of the English".

That rather assumes that the Treasury is English! the money is still shared out, it is just dispensed in England in a different way.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think you'll find that most - if not all - citizens of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland would fully support the creation of an English assembly: it's the English themselves that can't be bothered to do something about it. So please don't moan about the benefits that the other parts of the UK apparently enjoy.

I agree!

 

[mallard]

That rather assumes that the Treasury is English! the money is still shared out, it is just dispensed in England in a different way.

I didn't mean it like that, I mean that the Scottish and Welsh get to "ringfence" their own allocations from the treasury to benefit their populations, while the English have no similar arrangement - i.e. the money left has to cover both "English" things and "whole UK" things, with no set allocations either way.

For instance, if the government were to put a large amount of money into developing a UK-wide High-Speed Rail network, this would have to (mostly) come from the central Treasury, meaning less money left for "English" things.

I think you'll find that most - if not all - citizens of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland would fully support the creation of an English assembly: it's the English themselves that can't be bothered to do something about it. So please don't moan about the benefits that the other parts of the UK apparently enjoy.

As I said in my initial rant (sorry for "derailing" the thread BTW!) that's largely because of the negative and "racist" image given to those that support English nationalism, compared to the much more positive view of those that support Scottish and Welsh nationalism.

 

[Greenback]

I didn't mean it like that, I mean that the Scottish and Welsh get to "ringfence" their own allocations from the treasury to benefit their populations, while the English have no similar arrangement - i.e. the money left has to cover both "English" things and "whole UK" things, with no set allocations either way.

For instance, if the government were to put a large amount of money into developing a UK-wide High-Speed Rail network, this would have to (mostly) come from the central Treasury, meaning less money left for "English" things.

The UK government won't develop a UK wide HS2 because it will say that there isn't a business case for it. This is part of the reason that the citizens of the smaller nations regard the UK government and the English government as pretty much the same thing!

One way to counter that is to have an overall UK government alongside national governments for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The fact this arrangement isn't popular in England seems to indicate that many English residents also consider that the UK government is 'English'.

As I said in my initial rant (sorry for "derailing" the thread BTW!) that's largely because of the negative and "racist" image given to those that support English nationalism, compared to the much more positive view of those that support Scottish and Welsh nationalism.

It's time for the nationalist English people to reclaim the flag from the racist groups and football fans who have commandeered it!

 

[mallard]

The UK government won't develop a UK wide HS2 because it will say that there isn't a business case for it.

I'm aware! I was just using a forum-appropriate example of something that would cost a lot of money! Maybe I should have mentioned the cost of fighting recent wars or something as a more realistic example...

It's time for the nationalist English people to reclaim the flag from the racist groups and football fans who have commandeered it!

Agreed!

 

[Greenback]

Maybe we should move to a more federalised way of doing things here, perhaps following the US model of state government?