I'll rephrase it for you... If you want the LU train operator job, get a different job with TFL and then apply internally like everyone else. Simple.
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LU Night Tube Train Operator - Part Time
- Thread starter Jambo86
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I'll rephrase it for you... If you want the LU train operator job, get a different job with TFL and then apply internally like everyone else. Simple.
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R
RailUK Forums
This is a good way in if you want to avoid stations...
Operations officer
https://tfl.taleo.net/careersection/external/jobdetail.ftl?job=031816
Operations officer
https://tfl.taleo.net/careersection/external/jobdetail.ftl?job=031816
Such a shame that this thread has run on for so long and we now get a post that tries to make a point of difference between external and internal candidates
Good luck to everyone still in the 2018 process now it hasreopened after so many months
bluegoblin7
Established Member
Not really. These sentiments have been present since the first night tube campaign.
Many have taken CSA jobs in good faith, hoping to progress to train operator. Many became successful during an internal full time campaign, only to be passed over and forced to wait longer because of external night tubers jumping in and treating it as a back door into full time train operations. It’s understandable that many have felt aggrieved by this process.
Needless to say, internal candidates now apply for Night Tube to use that same back door, moving full time after their first year. This has slowed the external recruitment and is pretty much guarantees that there won’t be another external campaign.
I can’t say I particularly feel any sympathy for people who wanted to get in this way. Karma springs to mind.
(and for the millionth time and for the avoidance of doubt in case the usual suspects jump in, I have never applied for train operator and nor do I wish to ever be a train operator.)
Many have taken CSA jobs in good faith, hoping to progress to train operator. Many became successful during an internal full time campaign, only to be passed over and forced to wait longer because of external night tubers jumping in and treating it as a back door into full time train operations. It’s understandable that many have felt aggrieved by this process.
Needless to say, internal candidates now apply for Night Tube to use that same back door, moving full time after their first year. This has slowed the external recruitment and is pretty much guarantees that there won’t be another external campaign.
I can’t say I particularly feel any sympathy for people who wanted to get in this way. Karma springs to mind.
(and for the millionth time and for the avoidance of doubt in case the usual suspects jump in, I have never applied for train operator and nor do I wish to ever be a train operator.)
bluegoblin7
Established Member
They can do what everyone used to do: apply as a CSA and work their way up.
To look at it another way: why go to the expense and faff of an external campaign when demand more than outstrips supply internally? Historically there have also been far higher retention rates from T/Ops applying via stations, many external candidates historically either don’t make the cut or leave soon after qualifying. London Underground don’t have to recruit externally if it doesn’t make sense for them to do so, and it doesn’t.
Blame the ones who deliberately circumvented the internal route.
To look at it another way: why go to the expense and faff of an external campaign when demand more than outstrips supply internally? Historically there have also been far higher retention rates from T/Ops applying via stations, many external candidates historically either don’t make the cut or leave soon after qualifying. London Underground don’t have to recruit externally if it doesn’t make sense for them to do so, and it doesn’t.
Blame the ones who deliberately circumvented the internal route.
How is there a back door or a front door you either get the job or you don't.
Of course the natural progression is for night tube to go full time no point in jealousy.
In the real world there isn't this stupid rule of only recruiting drivers from internal staff and main line is a lot harder than sitting at the front of an ato train.
If anything you should blame the union for not putting in place measures for night tube drivers to be restricted to that role only.
Of course the natural progression is for night tube to go full time no point in jealousy.
In the real world there isn't this stupid rule of only recruiting drivers from internal staff and main line is a lot harder than sitting at the front of an ato train.
If anything you should blame the union for not putting in place measures for night tube drivers to be restricted to that role only.
Well said
As I understand it, once the sub-surface lines have gone fully ATO it is planned to restructure the train operator grade with differentiation between "Train Operator" and "Automatic Train Operator" in a fashion similar to that used in the stations restructuring.
If memory serves, the reason they have dedicated Night Tube drivers is that in order to roster the imbalance of drivers required at weekends it would have required a total rewrite of drivers agreements and parameters. The unions were not prepared to give up existing agreements so the company's response was to just recruit "Night Tube" train operators. I don't think the unions had a lot of say in it.
If the unions had attempted to block Night Tube drivers from going full time they would be acting against the interests of their members who are working on Night Tube. ASLEF only represent train drivers, so why would they block their members from going full time at the expense of station and other TFL staff who are not ASLEF members? The RMT has a lot of drivers on LU but ASLEF control the functional council with 6 reps to the RMTs 3 so ASLEF get the final say.
All told, it seems this has turned into a complete shambles, with Night Tube seen as the way into the grade now. I imagine when the restructuring finally does go ahead that these issues will be addressed. Don't expect it to be pretty!
How do I send PM? Good luck
Unfortunately you can't until you have posted a number of posts
Good luck Loulou I have mine next month so cant help other than what we were sent
Jellytots898
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.....
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Thanks Jon1993 good luck
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How did it go loulou1?
Colbert based interview went well, however I don’t think I gathered all the key facts for the technical recorded task.
Jellytots898
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- 13 Jan 2018
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Pm me if you want.
Go for the depot closest to home
PhoenixAndy
Member
Hi everyone, first time poster although been reading these forums as a guest for quite a while now.
After more than 2 years, finally been given a training start date first week in February subject to my 2nd medical on Monday and seeing as I passed my last one it should be all systems go.
I have a few questions which I can't find answers to on this thread so I'm hoping you guys can fill me in.
Re Holidays: Are they built into the rota or can you take them when you want?
Re Depots: What kind of staff facilities do they usually have ie canteen, lockers, showers etc
What's the odds of getting Stratford? I live in Romford and go West Ham every other Saturday so it would be really convenient if I could end up there. Next best would be Hainault or Loughton.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated
After more than 2 years, finally been given a training start date first week in February subject to my 2nd medical on Monday and seeing as I passed my last one it should be all systems go.
I have a few questions which I can't find answers to on this thread so I'm hoping you guys can fill me in.
Re Holidays: Are they built into the rota or can you take them when you want?
Re Depots: What kind of staff facilities do they usually have ie canteen, lockers, showers etc
What's the odds of getting Stratford? I live in Romford and go West Ham every other Saturday so it would be really convenient if I could end up there. Next best would be Hainault or Loughton.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated
PhoenixAndy
Member
Oh I forgot, one more thing. Do you get a choice between ASLEF and the RMT? If so, which one is best?
Halfway Boy
Member
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You get 8 weeks which are allocated, then a week of floating days that you can take whenever according to coverage.
Basically according to GOAL which governs our annual leave, you should get 2 weeks allocated every quarter based on a rota. So if you were annual leave period 10 you would get whatever 2 weeks period 10 was down to get.
you can arrange a mutual leave swap with another driver if you both have something the other wants.
this works a little bit differently for trainees because you get 1 week of annual leave built into the training (week 9 off the top of my head?).
Depot facilities are generally lockers, showers, toilets, computer room, mess room with TV and kitchen facilities, free tea and coffee (vending machine) and vending machines which sell soft drinks and snacks. Parking is better at some depots than others.
Some depots also have additional facilities - canteen, pool/snooker room, etc.
You will not get to choose your depot, it is allocated to you in your first week of training. You can do a mutual swap with other drivers on your training course only. After that, you need to choose 2 depots to transfer to (for full time) and you can also choose night tube depots to transfer to.
You are not eligible to transfer for at least 12 months (normally 18) and if you do a night tube to night tube transfer you won’t be eligible to go full time for 12-18 months after that transfer, so think long and hard before you put one in.
your odds of getting Stratford as a night tube depot is incredibly low. It is one of the few night tube depots that have a waiting list for drivers to transfer to it.
It also has a significant full time waiting list, the driver at the top of the full time list has been waiting for almost 4 years.
Also only certain depots are night tube depots, it tends to be only 1 at each end of the line.
Hainault and Loughton are not night tube depots - they are full time only, as the Night Tube depots on the central line are white city and Leytonstone.
the choice between ASLEF and RMT is best made depending on what depot you get. RMT is the strongest union on the Piccadilly Line for example, but ASLEF is the stronger union on other lines.
Pick the strongest depot on your line, as they are the one most likely to save your job.
Halfway Boy
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go for the depot with the shortest/fastest moving waiting list that you are willing to travel to, then go for the one closest to home.
why wait 4 years for a dead mans shoes depot on night tube money, when you could pick a depot with a fast moving waiting list, move after 12 months and then spend 3/4 years on a full time tube drivers wage?
PhoenixAndy
Member
Fantastically comprehensive answers thanks guys.
So how do I find out about which ones have the shortest waiting lists?
Also, am I reading it right that my training depot is not necessarily my permanent depot after training?
Halfway Boy
Member
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You should be given a sheet with the current waiting lists on it at the school when you are making your nominations, if not...
There is a folder at the booking on desk of every depot, it should have waiting lists that are updated monthly.
As part of your first 4 weeks at Ashfield house you will have a fab experience day, where you spend a day with an IO driving. Look at the folder on this day and make your selections.
Your training depot is your permanent depot. After you finish your initial training - meant to be 12-14 weeks but can be longer - then you are stuck there for minimum of 12 months, usually 18 months.
You can apply to transfer another depot, either as a full time driver or a night tube driver, just like I can apply to transfer to another depot if I wanted.
After 12-18 months you would then transfer to the depot you have selected, assuming you were at the top of the waiting list by then.
Jimbo12345
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Last time I looked at the lists the shortest one was for Queens Park (Bakerloo) followed by pretty much anywhere on the Picc line - the depots heading out towards east London are very very long (multiple years wait)
PhoenixAndy
Member
That's a bit disappointing seeing as I'm from East London. Oh well I guess I'll have to suck it and see. Didn't really want to have to drive to work seeing as you get free travel.
Just a small amendment to the excellent information above - the night tube holiday allocation is 15 days. You also do your 1 week block training per year (Mon-Fri) which gives you the weekend either side off in lieu plus one additional floating leave day (so essentially you will have 10 whole weekends off work per year without illness/exceptional circumstances).
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