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Luton DART and Luton Airport Parkway Updates

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Rick1984

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Something that irks me about the design is having to go through 2 ticket barriers from the tain to the Dart. Something like this should be a seamless transition between modes of transport.
I understand it probably had to be done that way
 
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MrJeeves

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I understand it probably had to be done that way
Potentially it could have been done with a single set of barriers at the airport end with the caveat that it would be possible to do infinite return trips from Parkway, but I just think it wasn't worth the hassle, plus you'd lose the ability to ensure valid tickets to Parkway in the first place (or you'd have a single set of barriers at Parkway with something similar to continuation exit at the Airport end).

I think they just chose the simple option so that nothing goes wrong, and so DART only relies on DART things to validate travel.
 

Bletchleyite

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Potentially it could have been done with a single set of barriers at the airport end with the caveat that it would be possible to do infinite return trips from Parkway, but I just think it wasn't worth the hassle, plus you'd lose the ability to ensure valid tickets to Parkway in the first place (or you'd have a single set of barriers at Parkway with something similar to continuation exit at the Airport end).

I think they just chose the simple option so that nothing goes wrong, and so DART only relies on DART things to validate travel.

Also if you did that you'd have to deal with people who travelled but without a valid ticket. If you always check on entry, then you don't, those without a valid ticket are just turned away.

They could I suppose have had it set up so exit doesn't require a ticket, though, like most flat fare metro systems do worldwide.
 

Bald Rick

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Something that irks me about the design is having to go through 2 ticket barriers from the tain to the Dart. Something like this should be a seamless transition between modes of transport.
I understand it probably had to be done that way

Have you never been to Southwark tube?
 

dk1

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Anyway, the Luton Airport Express ad came on again today on YouTube and this time I watched it all the way through. It did its job well, I was most encouraged to use EMR's services to Luton. That is helped by having a good few 360s on my wants list to be fair!
Yes they're pretty solid units. Those I know who've used the EMR St.Pancras then DART were impressed overall.
 

1D54

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Yes they're pretty solid units. Those I know who've used the EMR St.Pancras then DART were impressed overall.
Also do some very good fares do EMR Connect ( probably because of the competition with Thameslink?) which makes the price of using DART more palatable.
 

ijmad

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Thanks for that. Strikes me as a bit low already, even without extension to a third station. I get the impression at Gatwick for example that you only have to wait a couple of minutes.

Doppelmayr (the manufacturer) does offer modes of operation where there can be multiple vehicles on each track with crossovers at the terminal stations, using cable configurations they call 'pinched loop' or 'continuous movement'.

I wonder if Luton might upgrade the DART if they build Terminal 2 and expect it to operate there, as to offer a 5 minute service with two single shuttles the end to end journey time including embarkation needs to be 5 minutes and this would seem challenging given the existing journey time is over 3 minutes.

This is mere speculation but it does seem like the concrete viaduct outside Parkway station has some additional space, I wonder if it might be large enough to accommodate a crossover in future.
 

bib

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Used the Dart for the first time last week, very smooth process with a pre-collected train ticket. Hadn't used Luton much before so overestimated the time to get out of the airport and ended up with a 45 minute wait for my train, but gave me time to make use of the retail park beside the train station. Claims to have had 1 million passengers since March, with maximum of 18.8% of airport passengers using it.
IMG_20230909_171903869_HDR.jpg
 

ijmad

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The T2 plans include for an extension of the DART.
Yeah I more meant will they upgrade it to one of the more advanced modes the manufacturer offers so they can run more than two trains
 

Bald Rick

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Yeah I more meant will they upgrade it to one of the more advanced modes the manufacturer offers so they can run more than two trains

Can’t see how they could make it work otherwise.

To be honest I think a cable hauled system was a mistake, but then that’s my opinion.
 

edwin_m

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Can’t see how they could make it work otherwise.

To be honest I think a cable hauled system was a mistake, but then that’s my opinion.
What's the maximum gradient on DART? Cable hauled systems should be able to do a bit better than wheel-driven ones.
 

Bald Rick

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What's the maximum gradient on DART? Cable hauled systems should be able to do a bit better than wheel-driven ones.

Good point, although I’d be surprised if it was more than the Nottingham or Sheffield tram systems, and certainly within the capability of a rubber wheeled system.
 

Basil Jet

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I notice that the Parkway end has arriving passengers exiting from the outsides and departing passengers queueing in the centre, but the Airport end just has a single island between the tracks. The island is rather wide, so I'm not sure that the island + 2 tracks is any narrower than the island + 2 tracks + 2 bays at the other end. The only thing i could think of is that it is something to do with the planned extension to a new airport terminal.
 

mrmartin

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18% using rail to get to Luton seems really low to me (as discussed, assuming that virtually all rail passengers get DART now which I think is a fair one).

Perhaps I underestimate the amount of non-London travel that goes to/from LTN? But unless you're in very north London surely train is more convenient? Especially given Luton has typically served "low cost" destinations and taxis are not cheap, even Uber these days is pretty eye wateringly expensive for airport runs.
 

JamesT

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18% using rail to get to Luton seems really low to me (as discussed, assuming that virtually all rail passengers get DART now which I think is a fair one).

Perhaps I underestimate the amount of non-London travel that goes to/from LTN? But unless you're in very north London surely train is more convenient? Especially given Luton has typically served "low cost" destinations and taxis are not cheap, even Uber these days is pretty eye wateringly expensive for airport runs.
I suspect the attraction of rail is mostly only going to be for those close to the MML. There’s quite a wide catchment area to East and West.
When I’ve previously used Luton from Oxford, it’s been either by car or direct coach. Traipsing through London to get there by train never crossed my mind, especially as I was usually heavily laden.
 

station_road

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The airport Surface Access Strategy updated in 2019 said that rail's share then was 16% of passengers, with both buses and taxis/minicabs having similar numbers - the bulk of passengers (around 50%) arrived by private car.

Page 30 of the document included a target to
Increase passenger travel by rail from 16% to 24% (1.12m passengers per annum) by 2022
Luton Airport Surface Access Strategy 2018-2022
 

Bald Rick

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18% using rail to get to Luton seems really low to me (as discussed, assuming that virtually all rail passengers get DART now which I think is a fair one).

I suspect the attraction of rail is mostly only going to be for those close to the MML. There’s quite a wide catchment area to East and West.

Even those on the MML nearby will be more likely to travel by road. Much quicker than getting to the station, parking (if not walking), getting a train, then transferring. Generally cheaper too, especially if there’s more than one person travelling together. Someone in (say) St Albans is 15-20 minutes away by taxi or a lift to the terminal, whereas it’s at least double that if you take the train unless you live within 10 minutes walk of the station.
 

edwin_m

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The train is a reasonable option for Luton from Nottingham, although it now requires a change at Kettering.
 

Bletchleyite

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The train is a reasonable option for Luton from Nottingham, although it now requires a change at Kettering.

Problem is a lot of flights are very early departures and very late arrivals back, which often isn't applicable to public transport unless you like kipping on airport floors or forking out for expensive hotels. For Home Counties users, taxis and car are the only viable option most of the time.
 

1D54

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Problem is a lot of flights are very early departures and very late arrivals back, which often isn't applicable to public transport unless you like kipping on airport floors or forking out for expensive hotels. For Home Counties users, taxis and car are the only viable option most of the time.
Silly departure and arrival times is certainly a problem if using WIZZ but FR and EZY are fine.
 

edwin_m

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Silly departure and arrival times is certainly a problem if using WIZZ but FR and EZY are fine.
These days when flying on business I tend to get a flight at a sensible hour the day before and stay over at destination. I've done this via Luton on several occasions.
 

Bald Rick

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Silly departure and arrival times is certainly a problem if using WIZZ but FR and EZY are fine.

Not really.

EZY have about 15 flights leaving 0600-0730 (by their aircraft based there) which means being there 0400-0530. There’s a few Luton based Wizz flights in that time range, but EZY have by far the majority. There are TL trains all night, but if you are getting to the airport for that time there is simply no traffic, and a door to door lift / cab / car for anywhere within 15-20 miles along the MML will be very competitive with the train. And of course anywhere not on the MML the car will be far easier.

Conversely Wizz tend to have a whole series of arrivals from Eastern Europe from around 0630, which then head back that way from around 0745 to 0900, for which using the train to access the airport by train is somewhat easier.

At the other end of the day all the Luton based aircraft return in late evening, and again this is mostly EZY. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve bee;on that shuttle bus from the airport to the station around midnight.
 
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Cloud Strife

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They could I suppose have had it set up so exit doesn't require a ticket, though, like most flat fare metro systems do worldwide.

That would make sense, because there's really no need to require a ticket on exit from the system. To be honest, they could simply have a single gateline at Luton Parkway and not bother with having a gateline at the airport. When/if T2 is built, there'll be even more reason to simply have the gateline at Luton Parkway.
 
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