Luton to Hatfield tomorrow - no 1st class fare

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by lightbulb, 7 Jun 2015.

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  1. lightbulb

    lightbulb Member

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    Hello all,

    A bit short notice, but I'm travelling today (Sunday) around 1130 between Luton and Hatfield (rte HATFLD/ALBNS BUS). The CDR is £6.35 with a DSB railcard. I note that there is no 1st class fare, but 1st class is provided (between Luton and St Albans). Given that there is no 1st class fare, what would be likely to happen if I travelled in 1st class, and an RPI were to check my ticket? Could I be liable for a PF? I do not intend to avoid paying for 1st class, but there is clearly no 1st class fare available in the first place.
     
    Last edited: 7 Jun 2015
  2. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

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  3. causton

    causton Established Member

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    Not the same route though... if you were excessed to that it would not be accepted on the buses!

    It is hard to tell. Perhaps you could be lucky and get a declassified First Class train (the ones to/from Sutton etc)! Perhaps they would try to give you a PF, rightly or wrongly...
     
  4. lightbulb

    lightbulb Member

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    Via London, yes, but that's not the route I'm travelling.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    If I were to be given a PF, would I be likely to win an appeal on the basis that the required fare is not available at the ticket office?
     
  5. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Unlikely, as you do not have a ticket that entitles you to use that particular class of accommodation.

    You may be excessed the difference between the Luton - St Albans Standard Class and First Class fares, if that is the only leg you would like to use First Class on.
     
  6. lightbulb

    lightbulb Member

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    The last time I made this journey, the ticket office refused the excess as there was no 1st class fare to excess it to. I then tried to split the tickets at St Albans, but was told that the St Albans to Hatfield ticket could not be sold on its own as it is a bus add-on. Hence my query now, to try and establish how to travel 1st class on a Std ticket if I am unable to purchase either a 1st class ticket for the route I'm taking, or a Std to 1st excess.

    As far as I can see, I should not be penalised for trying every way I can to buy a ticket for the class of travel I require, when that accommodation is advertised and provided, but for which the railway provides no means of purchasing.
     
    Last edited: 7 Jun 2015
  7. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You may want to ask Thameslink what you should do.
     
  8. asylumxl

    asylumxl Established Member

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    Do you really need first class for a sub 15 minute journey between Luton and St Albans?
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I agree. Let us know what Thameslink say, and don't forget Transport Focus.
     
  10. reb0118

    reb0118 Established Member Fares Advisor

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    If there is no through Ist class fare then you can pay the difference between the full standard and 1st fare (certain railcard discounts will apply) for the element that you require.

    If you hold an off peak ticket then that will have to be excessed to an anytime prior to upgrading to 1st.

    In this case, assuming DSB railcard held, you will need a Luton [LUT] to Hatfield [HAT](HATFLD/ALBNS BUS) SDR @ £8.00 plus the difference between the LUT to St Albans City [SAC] FDR @ £9.10 minus the LUT to SAC SDR @ 5.70 giving a grand total of £11.40.

    If you are in a penalty fares zones the 1st class upgrade must be obtained prior to travel.
     
  11. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    My thoughts exactly. It's not like the accomodation is really any different on most of the trains.
     
  12. crispy1978

    crispy1978 Established Member

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    And mine. It seems to be trying to find an issue where there isn't one really to be found for such a short journey.
     
  13. lightbulb

    lightbulb Member

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    In the end, I avoided the problem by travelling via London. The CBA (Super OffPeak Return) for £9.90 between Luton and Hertford East was too good to miss (my eventual destination was Hertford for a vintage bus day; originally I was going to pick up the vintage bus at Hatfield). I travelled via EMT and was not charged the £7.80 on-board 1st class upgrade, and the class 317 between Tottenham Hale and Hertford East had declassified 1st class. I took a vintage bus (a Green Line RT) back from Hertford to Finsbury Park, a class 313 to King's Cross, and am now travelling on an EMT back to Luton. I've shown my CBA to the conductor, who as yet hasn't returned to upgrade me to 1st class.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    It is on the 319/2s and /4s (2 + 1 seating in 1st). On the 377s, one of the two 1st class compartments in each 4-car set is declassified, and on the new 387s, the 1st is physically no different to Std class, so I agree that it's not worth paying 1st on the latter two classes. Unfortunately, with three different classes in use, it's impossible to know what you're going to get.
     
  14. asylumxl

    asylumxl Established Member

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    As a commuter on TL, I'm still inclined to say it's not worth it on any class, though I agree that some 319s have nicer FC seats than other stock on the route.
     
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