Luton: Why does it feel like a rundown Northern ex-mill town but is 45 minutes from London?

[jon0844]

..even the airport has been a building site for the past 40 years. I don't think there has ever been a time in the last 40 years when there hasn't been some major works going on there.

It has massively transformed this year with regards to car parking and the drop off areas, and more works are taking place. It seems to take ages now to drop off and get out of the airport, and the new multi storey car park has far too few lifts given just about everyone has luggage.

Maybe that is just to ensure more works in the future as they upgrade what they've just finished.

And then there's the tram line to come.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not sure I'd include St Albans in that.

Whilst IMO it's an over-rated town [*], sorry city, it does have a few things to offer such as a reasonably vibrant high street, cathedral, park ,et cetera - plus a couple of rather well-regarded schools which have a wide catchment area.


[* I actually don't really get what's so special about St Albans - for a start it's congested, then not far from the centre one encounters some quite manky estates, albeit nothing compared to something like Marsh Farm. The only real plus is the infamous 20-minute train service to London, albeit partly nullified because the station is in a crappy position so for many they can add quite a bit onto the journey time if one includes time spent getting to/from City station.]

It’s an Abbey

The catchment area of two of the best state secondary school are really rather small, well under a mile. Of the other two ‘outstanding’ secondary schools, one has a wider catchment area but if you are outside the immediate St Albans area your chances drop significantly. The other has a much broader area, but your child will need to be catholic, and a girl.

I wouldn't quite put it as surrounding towns not really noticing. The airport is quite intrusive in some ways:

all of the flight paths both inbound and outbound pass over Hertfordshire settlements, yet Luton planners pay little attention to the noise impact on North an Western Herts., as they part-own the airport.
much of the M1 and surrounding roads are regularly clogged, (particularly in the counter-peak commute direction by the high numbers of commuter and business related traffic flying out of the airport).​

The air noise is an interesting one. There is a campaign group in the north of St Albans about it, but the noise is frankly insignificant (they come right over my house), certainly compared to anyone living in Windsor or Twickenham (let alone Hounslow). And, incidentally, peak noise is higher from aircraft ex Heathrow on an easterly wind heading to North America.

I actually don't mind it, we drive to Newark every couple of weeks (normally heading north on a Friday evening) and I don't think I've ever encountered traffic congestion on those roundabouts; it normally seems to just be north of Peterborough rather than at any of the roundabouts or other junctions in the South. It'll be slightly better when the A14 roadworks are finished in a couple of years but they don't really cause any congestion. I like the roundabouts, breaks up the monotony of driving on high speed roads for ~200km.

I prefer the A1 when it’s quiet, as the driver in me loves the alignment and the old school pre-war Autobahn feel about it. But heading to the north east on a Friday pm (or any morning peak) I always use the M1 as it is less congested.

 

[bramling]

It’s an Abbey

The catchment area of two of the best state secondary school are really rather small, well under a mile. Of the other two ‘outstanding’ secondary schools, one has a wider catchment area but if you are outside the immediate St Albans area your chances drop significantly. The other has a much broader area, but your child will need to be catholic, and a girl.

Cathedral & Abbey Church if we’re being really picky! I should know, as I went to school right next door to it a couple of decades back. Amongst other things I learned how rubbish Thameslink is, funny how even in those days the Great Northern part of my journey to/from King’s Cross always went fine whilst the Thameslink part to/from King’s Cross Thameslink generally didn’t. Some things never change...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

..even the airport has been a building site for the past 40 years. I don't think there has ever been a time in the last 40 years when there hasn't been some major works going on there.

Not that the so-called passenger experience in this airport ever improves , amazing how the retail stuff gets to keep open - but pretty much nowhere to sit without paying , (beyond the control that is) - the utter shambles and bleakness of the exterior , the joy of having to pay £3 to drop off for a passenger , and the guided tour of building sites. I avoid at all costs - even preferring the journey to Southend. Still , it employs a lot of people.

 

[Bald Rick]

Cathedral & Abbey Church if we’re being really picky! I should know, as I went to school right next door to it a couple of decades back. Amongst other things I learned how rubbish Thameslink is, funny how even in those days the Great Northern part of my journey to/from King’s Cross always went fine whilst the Thameslink part to/from King’s Cross Thameslink generally didn’t. Some things never change...

I didn’t realise that the forum was graced with such alumni. I’ll bow accordingly!

Not that the so-called passenger experience in this airport ever improves , amazing how the retail stuff gets to keep open - but pretty much nowhere to sit without paying , (beyond the control that is) - the utter shambles and bleakness of the exterior , the joy of having to pay £3 to drop off for a passenger , and the guided tour of building sites. I avoid at all costs - even preferring the journey to Southend. Still , it employs a lot of people.

Now we agree on most things, but on this I don’t. I don’t give a monkeys what the outside of an airport looks like, particularly one next to an industrial estate and a van factory that you can’t see unless you are actually going to it. The internal rebuild is nearly done now, Re seating, you can sit (almost) anywhere you like past security - the seating is the airport’s. The exceptions are the full service restaurants. I spent an hour doing emails at Starbucks last time, having bought sweet FA. If anyone argued I was going to claim it was my share of the UK tax bill they avoid.

The £3 drop off is not unique, Manchester, East Midlands and Stansted all do it to my knowledge. At least at Luton it will get easier when the DART transit opens in around 30 months.

I may be in a minority, but it is my airport of choice. It’s certainly better than Stansted or Birmingham. Equivalent flights are generally cheaper too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The £3 drop off is not unique, Manchester, East Midlands and Stansted all do it to my knowledge. At least at Luton it will get easier when the DART transit opens in around 30 months.

People will still cough up - it amazes me how people don't drop off at International instead of Birmingham Airport to avoid it, but indeed they don't. Mind you, they also don't know that the Airport Parkway multi storey is one of the cheaper airport parking options too

As to the airport, I don't mind it, used to be my preference until Heathrow was tarted up (LCY was only good before they put the extra gates in), and it's still my nearest so wins for any flight before about 9am. In particular it's very quick for bags because the baggage system is as simple as it gets - drive a flatbed Transit over to the plane, chuck the bags on, drive them over to the belt.

Re seating there are even signs saying it's for everyone's use.

 

[Groningen]

In July 2018 they were thinking of a drop off charge at Schiphol. People should come more by public transport. It should have been around 5 euro.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In July 2018 they were thinking of a drop off charge at Schiphol. People should come more by public transport. It should have been around 5 euro.

Schiphol of course has a good network of public transport including rail. Luton doesn't, its rail service is only good for going to London or secondarily some of the East Midlands, and while there are buses the start is too late and the finish too early for many flights.

 

[Bald Rick]

Mind you, they also don't know that the Airport Parkway multi storey is one of the cheaper airport parking options too

As to the airport, I don't mind it, used to be my preference until Heathrow was tarted up (LCY was only good before they put the extra gates in), and it's still my nearest so wins for any flight before about 9am. In particular it's very quick for bags because the baggage system is as simple as it gets - drive a flatbed Transit over to the plane, chuck the bags on, drive them over to the belt.

Please don’t tell everyone about the airport parkway car park! That will be VERY attractive when the DART is in service (expect prices to rise )

Baggage, I think my longest wait in the last 5 years has been 5 minutes. Similarly at passport control. I think my longest time from aircraft steps to airport exit in that time is 15mins.

 

[Clip]

Because you can get a bigger/nicer house (or afford one at all). That's how gentrification in London has worked.

No gentrification in London worked not because of the bigger house but because of what you said about 20 somethings

You're unlikely to tempt "twentysomethings" with not living actually in London as they like the vibe and social opportunities. But there's no reason older people who would accept a commute in favour of a bigger house etc shouldn't be tempted there, really.

Whilst the 20 somethings couldnt buy at the time it was those in their late 30s early 40s who could and did simply because they still could go out in Town and not have to worry about the last train home to some grim area like Luton or Ebbsfleet which is why when they want to move out of London they still wont go to those places as they can afford houses in better towns in the home counties

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Please don’t tell everyone about the airport parkway car park! That will be VERY attractive when the DART is in service (expect prices to rise )

Baggage, I think my longest wait in the last 5 years has been 5 minutes. Similarly at passport control. I think my longest time from aircraft steps to airport exit in that time is 15mins.

I was really thinking of the chaotic (and still) - airport approaches via a grand tour of building sites and the "ambience" of the rail/bus pick up spot is somewhat below "word class" - OK the seating is a bit better - but I am told by others that S/td is far worse , particularly the Ryan Air bit. Off topic I know.

The dropping off at Luton Airport Parkway is the way to go - £1.50 for the bus and a doddle.

Southend is almost 1950's airport ambience - a joy , peaceful , spacious. Maybe the low number of flights has something to do with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stansted is a terrible airport - in the middle of nowhere, mucky and unbelievably slow to get through at every stage. And if you end up on the wrong pier by mistake (a friend did this, yes, a friend, not me) you can't get back without an escort - he missed his flight.

Rotten place, accompanied by a rotten airline.

Luton any day.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I reacquainted myself after 19 years , on my old Gospel Oak to Barking patch.

Having walked around Barking for 20 mins , - Luton has gone up in my estimation. Time maybe for a new thread on it.

 

[bramling]

I reacquainted myself after 19 years , on my old Gospel Oak to Barking patch.

Having walked around Barking for 20 mins , - Luton has gone up in my estimation. Time maybe for a new thread on it.

I love the subtly diplomatic way you put that!

 

[Thebaz]

Croydon town centre is a bit average-to-slightly-grim but there is some lovely big and expensive housing around the rest of Croydon, most of the population of which probably treats central London as its town centre rather than Croydon. Crawley and Sutton I don't really know. The Elephant is a different definition of grim, it is truly horrible.

Croydon is in the midst of a proper regeneration now with the council investing a lot of money in improving the town centre. Much of the Brutalist architecture is disappearing, even the Whitgift Centre is soon to go; there is a great restaurant quarter and arts and craft places are popping up here and there. Also Croydon is probably the most genuinely multi-cultural, non-ghettoised borough in the country after Haringey. It's really on the up - move to Croydon everyone! Sutton on the other hand... I grew up there (well, Carshalton anyway.) Twenty years ago Sutton was nice - it always used to call itself "the greener, cleaner borough". Now, it's a proper ****hole town full of chavs, and faux-gangstas who come to rob. Crawley....is....really... bad.
Meanwhile just a few miles away Horsham is lovely town and I would move there in a heartbeat if it didn't mean uprooting the family from Sud Croixdans.

Must say I'm surprised by the disparaging comments about Bedford - upon visiting a friend there for a few nights a couple of years ago I found it to be fairly pleasant and somewhere I'd consider living. My dad was from Luton and I spent a lot of time there visiting my grandmother - can confirm its awfulness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Must say I'm surprised by the disparaging comments about Bedford - upon visiting a friend there for a few nights a couple of years ago I found it to be fairly pleasant and somewhere I'd consider living.

As would I, I really don't mind it.

 

[bramling]

Must say I'm surprised by the disparaging comments about Bedford - upon visiting a friend there for a few nights a couple of years ago I found it to be fairly pleasant and somewhere I'd consider living.

Like many places, it's not the place but the people...

 

[Groningen]

From Groningen airport there are 3 daily weekdays flights to Stansted.