Made to get off train at Cheltenham Spa due to ticket issue

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12midlander

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I was just wondering if any action could potentially be taken against me for this, I went to Cardiff to meet with a good friend and the tickets were purchased the day before all went well tickets should have been £60+ but were reduced to £40 with my raillcard, I stayed overnight came back today and my ticket wasn't checked until just before cheltenham spa, my phone however would not open the QR code via the train wifi or via my data, I did raise my voice but only after the inspector got very close to me to the point of being in my face and shouting to get off the train, I had said very firmly "don't talk to me like that, I have a ticket I am trying to sort it" after she got in my face she turned on the camera on her jacket, however I did get off the train I didn't refuse I was just reluctant as feared being stranded in Cheltenham, I had only change as I had spent the money I had taken down with me and a debit card that expired in october and a misplaced current debit card so did not buy a single ticket from her on the train, I had however offered to show the booking reference/ email. I attempted to contact my friend so they could help however my phone was out of credit, the insepctor told a member of staff on the platform before the train had left the platform what had happened and while I was attempting to contact my friend I was escourted to the ticket barriers and told to explain.

I explained and as I got my words mixed up (due to being very stressed as I had a test to attend for a job I had applied for later that day which I would then miss on top fearing being stuck there without money) to which he sarcastically said "stick to your story" to imply I was lying. I then said all the stations I have been to in the past and I don't fare dodge, I travel very regularly on trains and long distance too (1-2hrs) and he then said another sarcastic comment implying that I had done all that without tickets.

The lady on the barrier was very nice and obviously only doing her job and explained that she can't let me stay on the station until I have proof of a QR code, I still couldn't download it so advised I wait in the waiting room, I waited about attempting to use the GWR station wifi however it did not let me buy a ticket with the card information that I hoped would be saved to my phone due to a "security issue" with the wifi when trying to get on to google, so had to run across the road to a cafe and asked the staff to use their staff wifi, thankfully they were helpful and gave me the password, I then bought a single ticket and boarded the train, downloaded the QR code, and made a joking comment on the barrier of it "finally working" and all was well.

I am just worried this could mentioned to BTP as I don't have ability to pay a large fine at the moment as I am out of a full time job or want to have some kind of record, really worrying me, I used to travel daily to work to Birmingham new street so I have always paid my full fare, you get people hiding in the toilets all the time and removing that facility for people yet my phone decided not open a QR code and I fear that it could potentially come back to haunt me. Even worse is that I delete emails regarding buying train tickets as a habbit from when I used the train everyday to save hundreds of needless emails, so I wouldn't have that as proof, only a bank statment.

I should point out none of my details were taken during any of this.

What are all your opinions?
 
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Merseysider

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I agree with Bertone.

In future you should think about saving your etickets to your phone well in advance of the journey using a PDF app or Apple Wallet - once downloaded/saved, no internet connection is needed.
 

Haywain

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So, no data on the phone, no cash and an expired debit card - you need to reflect on how that looks and consider yourself rather fortunate.
 

12midlander

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So, no data on the phone, no cash and an expired debit card - you need to reflect on how that looks and consider yourself rather fortunate.
I had a debit card however I had given my friend my wallet to pay for drinks on the night before and he had put my card in a coin zip pocket in the back of the wallet, at the panic of the moment I assumed it lost plus my phone credit ran out of credit the day I travelled, sounds like I was unprepared it was just an unlucky series of events.
 

randyrippley

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So if I've understood you correctly, you purchased a second ticket on the day of travel? You should be asking for your money back
 

island

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So if I've understood you correctly, you purchased a second ticket on the day of travel? You should be asking for your money back
I am quite unclear as to why the OP chose to buy a new ticket rather than download the one they already allegedly paid for, but if they did end up with two tickets one is potentially refundable subject to an admin fee.

As others mention, if no details were taken then that is very likely the end of the matter. I would just close by saying that as a disinterested onlooker, your story features a great deal of terribly unfortunate occurrences of the sort which rarely afflict individuals, especially not in short succession, but are frequently cited by those seeking to evade fares as reasons for not having a ticket.
 

skyhigh

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I would just close by saying that as a disinterested onlooker, your story features a great deal of terribly unfortunate occurrences of the sort which rarely afflict individuals, especially not in short succession, but are frequently cited by those seeking to evade fares as reasons for not having a ticket.
I have to agree - a lot of unfortunate occurrences. In addition there's been a lot of fraud recently with fake booking confirmation emails being produced which are generally shown with an excuse for why an accompanying ticket can't be produced. Staff are being told to keep an eye out for this so if you couldn't show the ticket but could show the confirmation email, had no way of purchasing a new ticket and in your own admission raised your voice I'm not particularly surprised at the outcome.

Next time I'd save a copy of the pdf or screenshot if it's an eticket.
 

12midlander

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I am quite unclear as to why the OP chose to buy a new ticket rather than download the one they already allegedly paid for, but if they did end up with two tickets one is potentially refundable subject to an admin fee.

As others mention, if no details were taken then that is very likely the end of the matter. I would just close by saying that as a disinterested onlooker, your story features a great deal of terribly unfortunate occurrences of the sort which rarely afflict individuals, especially not in short succession, but are frequently cited by those seeking to evade fares as reasons for not having a ticket.
As the original qr code was not opening on my phone and I was fairly desperate to get home so I just got one hoping I could still make an appointment as I had already been set back by an earlier train being late
 

Vespa

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Printing off 2 copies of each downloaded as an eticket would save you a bit of bother, you would have one and a spare.

I wouldn't bother with mobile ticket on your phone as too many problems can happen, bad signal, flat battery, software issue.

Just because it's modern doesn't mean it's better, paper eticket doesn't need a battery or Wi-Fi.

You may not hear anything if they haven't got your details.
 

12midlander

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I have to agree - a lot of unfortunate occurrences. In addition there's been a lot of fraud recently with fake booking confirmation emails being produced which are generally shown with an excuse for why an accompanying ticket can't be produced. Staff are being told to keep an eye out for this so if you couldn't show the ticket but could show the confirmation email, had no way of purchasing a new ticket and in your own admission raised your voice I'm not particularly surprised at the outcome.

Next time I'd save a copy of the pdf or screenshot if it's an eticket.
I do admit I raised my voice but only after I was shouted at by the woman who had put herself less than 2ft from my face. I did far from start the argument especially when I didn't swear or pass any comments other than against how I was being treated and spoken to.
 

voyagerdude220

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I do admit I raised my voice but only after I was shouted at by the woman who had put herself less than 2ft from my face. I did far from start the argument especially when I didn't swear or pass any comments other than against how I was being treated and spoken to.
If that's the case- I'd certainly make a complaint to the TOC involved- Even if you didn't get her name, if you know which train service it was they should be able to work out who it was.
 

Bletchleyite

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If that's the case- I'd certainly make a complaint to the TOC involved- Even if you didn't get her name, if you know which train service it was they should be able to work out who it was.

But also work out who the OP was, and potentially start prosecution proceedings.

If the OP breached the Byelaws, which they did, this would be highly unwise regardless of staff conduct. I am sure I recall a case on here where a complaint caused prosecution proceedings to be initiated.

The only sensible action here is that the OP must realise they are responsible for ensuring they can show their ticket when requested.
 

island

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If that's the case- I'd certainly make a complaint to the TOC involved- Even if you didn't get her name, if you know which train service it was they should be able to work out who it was.
I would very strongly recommend against doing this as it has every chance of boomeranging in the OP's face and getting them prosecuted for failure to show a ticket.
 

Haywain

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I had a debit card however I had given my friend my wallet to pay for drinks on the night before and he had put my card in a coin zip pocket in the back of the wallet, at the panic of the moment I assumed it lost plus my phone credit ran out of credit the day I travelled, sounds like I was unprepared it was just an unlucky series of events.
So, how did you get on to the station at Cardiff - which has ticket barriers?
 

AlterEgo

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The OP doesn’t seem in the least bit miffed about having to pay for a “second” ticket with a debit card they didn't have so I would definitely recommend *not* complaining.

I agree with the revenue staff that this sounds like a very unfortunate, multiple series of events that would stretch the belief of an employee who deals with this every day.

Add to that the raised voices and I reckon the OP should be thankful their details weren’t taken and not be daft enough to complain about what, on the face of it, looks like avoiding getting prosecuted.
 

Snow1964

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This is why paper tickets are better, and rail operators leaving a station with no working ticket machine is really not on. They wouldn’t leave a broken train door unfixed, and using an excuse tickets aren’t safety critical so not important is a bit lame.

You should simply be able to state I started my return journey at X, ticket machine was broken and not printing tickets

It is easier if you take a photo on phone of broken machine, but really any ticket inspector should check its status rather than presume you are a fare evader and give you a grilling first and assuming you are automatically a liar.
 

island

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This is why paper tickets are better, and rail operators leaving a station with no working ticket machine is really not on. They wouldn’t leave a broken train door unfixed, and using an excuse tickets aren’t safety critical so not important is a bit lame.

You should simply be able to state I started my return journey at X, ticket machine was broken and not printing tickets

It is easier if you take a photo on phone of broken machine, but really any ticket inspector should check its status rather than presume you are a fare evader and give you a grilling first and assuming you are automatically a liar.
None of this is of any relevance to the OP, who had chosen not to use a ticket machine and instead to have e-tickets sent to them. If you wish to make a general point about your preference for paper tickets or standards of maintenance of station equipment, I would suggest starting a new thread in an appropriate forum.
 

jumble

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If that's the case- I'd certainly make a complaint to the TOC involved- Even if you didn't get her name, if you know which train service it was they should be able to work out who it was.
Any complaint is likely to end up in the nearest dustbin so the OP should not waste their time by behaving in an entitled manner when they did not present a valid ticket
 

Bletchleyite

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Any complaint is likely to end up in the nearest dustbin so the OP should not waste their time by behaving in an entitled manner when they did not present a valid ticket

I think it wouldn't end up in a dustbin, it would end up at the Prosecutions Department as a confession of a Byelaw breach for prosecution.

This is why paper tickets are better, and rail operators leaving a station with no working ticket machine is really not on.

The OP chose not to use a paper ticket, so that is irrelevant. They could have chosen to purchase on board or at their destination if there was no opportunity at their origin, but that would have required them to carry enough cash and/or a valid debit card, which they admit they did not.

It's also fishy that they tried to purchase another ticket rather than loading the one they had, which would have been in their email as a PDF if it was an e-ticket. Is it just possible that the QR code wouldn't display because either they had refunded it, or because they had used an invalid card which then declined so it was cancelled?

The OP should suck it up and make sure they have, and can show, a valid ticket next time (it's likely the RPI will remember them, so if they do it again and the same RPI catches them, they will certainly be prosecuted or at least have to pay a hefty three figure settlement taking into account both incidents). Very likely they have got away with it this time, but unlikely they will again.
 
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voyagerdude220

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I would very strongly recommend against doing this as it has every chance of boomeranging in the OP's face and getting them prosecuted for failure to show a ticket.
Ah I realise I've misread the OP's post.
 

RPI

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I'm going to suggest that the OP selected "open return" on the trainline? Which in turn sold a splitsave ticket? And I'll hazard a guess that one of these was (unknowingly to the OP) actually a day return?

I've seen this so much lately, obviously it may not be the case here, but one example the other day was as above, one part of the split turned out to be an off-peak return, the other and off-peak day return, this only became apparent when the customer attempted to load the QR code, the journey was listed in the "previous bookings" but neither QR code was obtainable, not even the off-peak return that hadn't expired.

I could see from the itinerary what had been booked and also hadn't been refunded so I was able to just use my noggin and sell a new ticket just for the day return section.

The customer had selected "open return" in good faith as probably anyone would assume this would be just that and not a day return!
 

Bletchleyite

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If Trainline are doing that they really should not be. "Open return" means "Period return" to most people. That must be causing no end of trouble, good to see you take a pragmatic line on it.
 

RPI

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If Trainline are doing that they really should not be. "Open return" means "Period return" to most people. That must be causing no end of trouble, good to see you take a pragmatic line on it.
Its happening all the time, not just trainline either, "open return" is giving day returns. I generally do as I did above, ultimately this can still the leave the customer out of pocket on what they originally wanted but my hands are tied to a degree
 
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