Normally they are pretty hefty chunks of metal - i had the displeasure (if thats the word) to see one of my favourate 47s cut up last year, and the time it took the mechanical grab to try and even pierce one of the fuel tanks was impressive. Even dropping it on the floor didnt significantly damage it. However - firstly, that was an Internal Tank - 47500 like most 47s has 3 - two inside and one underframe mounted tank, and with the derailment leading to all axles off track would have caused some siginificant underframe equipment damage anyway - as you say, with a derailment like this, there's going to be a substantial amount of weight / energy and friction involved, and with any standard rail debris lying around will only add to the damage.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Major incident: Train derailed 23 Jan 13 in Manchester
- Thread starter 185
- Start date
- Status
Normally they are pretty hefty chunks of metal - i had the displeasure (if thats the word) to see one of my favourate 47s cut up last year, and the time it took the mechanical grab to try and even pierce one of the fuel tanks was impressive. Even dropping it on the floor didnt significantly damage it. However - firstly, that was an Internal Tank - 47500 like most 47s has 3 - two inside and one underframe mounted tank, and with the derailment leading to all axles off track would have caused some siginificant underframe equipment damage anyway - as you say, with a derailment like this, there's going to be a substantial amount of weight / energy and friction involved, and with any standard rail debris lying around will only add to the damage.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
inkyadrian
Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2011
- Messages
- 10
The rear engine, a 47, derailed at Ordsall lane jcn. Diesel fuel seeped to the road below. It was on the up-line, going into Manchester, not far from Salford crescent points fiasco!
12CSVT
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 2,612
BestWestern
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 6,736
Indeed they are.
But a 100 tonne loco resting on the fuel tank as it is dragged along a running line (remember nearly all the weight of the loco will effectively be resting on the bit of fuel tank in contact with the rail) will eventually rupture it and there will be a lot of friction involved will cause a fire, if the fire has originated at that point and not on the bogie (no further comment on that
)D1009
Established Member
Is that because it could show drivers in a bad light, by any chance?if the fire has originated at that point and not on the bogie (no further comment on that
Smudger105e
Member
Why would you draw that conclusion? How would the possibility of a bogie fire reflect badly on the driver? I am confused!!
i know this is going to sound stupid but on YouTube under drs class 47 on fire there is a recent clip of thesecond in a double header with flames and sparks pouring from underneath could it be possible that the fire started first hit the fuel tank that then burst forcing the train off the rails please dont think bad of me just a thought
If you mean this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpWpcombTPg ?
That was a minor brake issue, not a derailment or fire....
Smudger105e
Member
Fire on 47s (back in the '80s when I worked on them) were most often caused by handbrakes or straight air brakes left partly applied, so the blocks would remain in contact with the wheels, and generate a lot of heat, which in turn either directly or indirectly set fire to the oil and grease in/on the bogie.
Almost impossible, I would think, for the heat to damage the intergrity of the fuel tank and burn the fuel contained within.
yeah iknow that but if somthing similer was happening on that train theres grease and oil in the bogies etc like isaid just a thought to me it sounds as possible as it derailed and the fuel tank burst there made tough if they wernt trains would bre burning with every derailment the class 66 in scotland came of fell down the embaknment much more force in that accident
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
No, there's no chance of that. Those sorts of bogie fires are caused by dragging brakes, or brakes left applied, and are not uncommon on class 47s. There's no chance of a fire like that igniting the fuel when it is contained within the fuel tanks. As others have already said, the fuel tanks on a class 47 are substantial. It is believed that the loco derailed on a set of points, causing the fuel tank to rupture and resulting in the diesel fire, whether or not a bogie fire was already taking place.
Last edited:
Royston Vasey
Established Member
A video of the consist passing through Piccadilly has been posted on Twitter by user NWRail. Anyone care to analyse the soundtrack as 47500 passes??
http://twitpic.com/bxtgqc
http://twitpic.com/bxtgqc
No, to say anymore would just be speculation on my part so I wont be adding to it, sorry.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Your source for stating this as fact please?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just bedding in the new brake blocks expertly fitted and adjusted by <deleted> at <deleted>
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The ticking is just the air dryer on the compressor blowing off and is perfectly normal, if it wasnt making that noise I would be worried!
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Can't hear a thing over the 185 on 13. Still loco is defo dead in transit but that is the only conclusion i can draw. Doesnt seem to be anything amiss although we all know what happened just 5 minutes later!
Mutterings from square one are that the points parted under the trailing loco.
Royston Vasey
Established Member
Yes, sorry, that was my point, nothing sounds amiss.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
Network Rail.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That analysis concurs with what I have heard.
Last edited:
Im starting to wonder and reduce the fuel tank theory a little. This pictue by Great Manchester Police & Great Manchester Fire & Rescue has got me wondering, combined with the fact that it's reported 47500 had new brake blocks fitted earlier aswell. The reason for spraying foam over that engine is more apparent as the fire seems to have spread up the side of the No.2 fuel tank - same area as the traction motor blowers are located.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmpolice1/8411192824/sizes/c/in/photostream
I normally try to avoid speculating about these things, but this had got me thinking - probably more so as it's a 47 than anything else.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmpolice1/8411192824/sizes/c/in/photostream
I normally try to avoid speculating about these things, but this had got me thinking - probably more so as it's a 47 than anything else.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Did I read somewhere or another that the fuel spillage had affected an area unconnected with the railway ?
Cant argue with that, I am not at work unfortunately so cant have a look myself.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
Yes, there has been contaimination of the surrounding area.
Last edited:
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
Talk about luxury! We never had an 'air dryer in my day. They'll be giving you straighteners next!
I wonder when they will get the line open?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I thought you just put your head in the firebox for a couple of seconds?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I thought you just put your head in the firebox for a couple of seconds?
Last edited:
Viscount702
Member
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2011
- Messages
- 332
The position of the derailed Engine would seem to be adjacent to the points giving access to MOSI. If so I don't think it will have been derailed on any points because it wouldn't have passed over any at this stage. The last points it would have passed over would be those at which I believe are at Castlefield Junction just North of Deansgate Station.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
Reasonably sure that a set of points were to blame, speculation regardless!
Last edited:
Sounds like some of the sources are still describing it as a derailed freight train. Pretty sure that is what I heard on BBC Radio 2 at about half 3 this afternoon.
Looking at the pic from the fire and rescue service above, the loco looks a tad barbequed!
Looking at the pic from the fire and rescue service above, the loco looks a tad barbequed!
87015
Established Member
I thought it was on plain line - One of the pictures shows it on the deck essentially opposite the set of points on the up line leading to the Museum - there down line it has come on doesn't have a set of points as 47500 is still short of Ordsall Lane Jn?
Edit: This picture https://twitter.com/benlevyfire/status/294126932528861187/photo/1/large
Anyone know the area well enough to confirm that is wrong/right - Is it at Windsor Bridge Jn rather than Ordsall Lane?
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
The loco will have travelled from the point of derailment to where it came to rest of course. So it won't actually be over the set of points that caused the derailment now.
Last edited:
Viscount702
Member
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2011
- Messages
- 332
But where are these points. I thought it was plain line as well hence my previous post. This would seem to be confirmed by looking at an aerial view of the location using Google
And how would you get hold of a NR log?
- Status