Major incident: Train derailed 23 Jan 13 in Manchester

[Robert Taggart]

From our experience of West Coast Railways, albeit on board other companies no frills charters, the locomotives and carriages are always grotty on the outside (not helped by a dull livery !) and the mark ones are just as grotty on the inside.
Methinks there be too many of these 'Mickey Mouse' / big toys for big boys operators - a part of us hopes this will 'de-rail' WCR !
Their Carnforth base be a blot on that towns landscape - close it down, pull it down ('cenotaph' included) and build much needed houses on the site - as be the case already to the south of.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How much damage was caused to the trackwork by this incident ?

 

[terryc]

First scheduled train along Chat Moss from Liverpool is the 12-46 to Stalybridge.
So everything should be back to normal this afternoon.

 

[PR1Berske]

@networkrail

#SalfordCrescent The train has been removed and final track repairs are taking place. We hope to reopen the lines late this afternoon.


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11:44 AM - 25 Jan 13

No specific time given but some kind of improvement at l(e)ast.

 

[davido39]

I've admit to not being a big fan of WCRC, their all over maroon just looks like a make do paint job and never seems to take long to look grotty! On the other hand, a few miles down (and up) the West Coast Main Line you have DRS with more or less the same loco's, but seem to be kept in a far superior condition.

If I had to choose witch company I'd use for a charter (if it was diesel hauled) I'd choose DRS hands down.

You never hear of West coast choosing to overhaul a locomotive due to an opportunity of winning a contract. Unlike DRS who are prepared to overhaul a few of their class 20's!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've admit to not being a big fan of WCRC, their all over maroon just looks like a make do paint job and never seems to take long to look grotty!

Perhaps a change of livery to "Stroudley Improved Engine Green" to brighten up their image....

 

[JohnB57]

DRS is publicly owned and primarily a freight operator serving the nuclear industry. WCRC is a privately owned spot hire and charter company. You can't really compare the two.

 

[Greybeard33]

First scheduled train along Chat Moss from Liverpool is the 12-46 to Stalybridge.
So everything should be back to normal this afternoon.

The Liverpool to Stalybridge services run via Victoria and so do not traverse the damaged section of track between Ordsall Lane Junction and Castlefield Junction. Presumably this is why they have been restored earlier than services through Oxford Road/Piccadilly.

 

[fgwrich]

Indeed, 47500 has quite an illustrious history in locomotive terms. Not that West Coast seem to have been bothered in recognising the fact thus far when they daubed it in the same drab brown colour they apply to all their locomotives, and at the end of the day it is just another lump of machinery, that just happened to be singled out for special treatment in the past.

Actually, im told that it was proposed to go back to being in Green for the GWR 175 celebrations, untill one of the magazines caught wind of this and published it. Thus ruining the planned surprise, and cancelled the Green repaint in favour of the Maroon one.

As for one of the posts above dubbing West Coast a Cowboy outfit - that's quite frankly a rather unfair statement on West Coast. They, like many other companies are a professionally run outfit with some rather respectible staff in the company, including many ex BR Staff.

Yes they have their failures, but so does DCR, DRS, Freightliner, DBS and to a lesser extent even GBRF, but considering most of West Coast's fleet is going on 40/50 years old, they're doing rather well considering. Some of the stock can i'll agree, get into abit of a state - but half the time it's by far alot better quality than of competitor Riviera Trains. And if their so bad, why would Porterbrook even consider selling them 4 Class 57/3s? Livery wise, the reason for the unfortunately drab all over maroon is to match the Royal Scotsman rake - as per their contract, and allows West Coast to use almost any loco in the fleet on the service - a luxury DRS doesn't have when 47790 & 832 are out of service and not on the Northern Belle. Yes, at times, i'll agree it does look unfortunately drab - but when it's kept clean, as many of the Southall based locos are, then it can look rather good.

Carnforth may be a mess, but that's because its a working yard. I think you'll find many DBS sites look equally as bad, even places like Long Marston and Eastleigh Works can look shabby at times.

Anyway, back to poor old 47500. Here's a video of it being lifted and recovered last night. 500 Should now either be parked on the MOSI enterance or headingback off, by rail, to Carnforth by 47854.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3--cgGz2G7Q&feature=youtu.be

 

[sprinterguy]

Actually, im told that it was proposed to go back to being in Green for the GWR 175 celebrations, untill one of the magazines caught wind of this and published it. Thus ruining the planned supprise, and cancelled the Green repaint in favour of the Maroon one.

Oh, I didn't know that. It's a shame that it never happened.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The Liverpool to Stalybridge services run via Victoria and so do not traverse the damaged section of track between Ordsall Lane Junction and Castlefield Junction. Presumably this is why they have been restored earlier than services through Oxford Road/Piccadilly.

they run from Salford central through ordsall lane to Eccles. Over the very stretch of track the train was stood on!However as the loco derailed before the junction as previous notes have stated then it is likely no damage on the junction itself and so services are able to run. They might ......might....... leave the remaining damaged track until tonight so they can at least restore services out of Victoria.

 

[Greybeard33]

they run from Salford central through ordsall lane to Eccles. Over the very stretch of track the train was stood on!However as the loco derailed before the junction as previous notes have stated then it is likely no damage on the junction itself and so services are able to run. They might ......might....... leave the remaining damaged track until tonight so they can at least restore services out of Victoria.

13:23 Preston to Hazel Grove and 14:03 Manchester Airport to Southport now appear to be scheduled to run through the damaged section.

 

[1an3]

TPE now expecting improvements.

From their facebook page:
===========================
‎*** Travel Update ***

Great news, Network Rail have confirmed that the plan for returning the line back to normal service has progressed extremely well. We are therefore expecting to run a normal train service from late afternoon through the evening peak.

There may be some residual delays as we get trains and crew in the correct place but this should be minimal.

We will keep you informed and updated but for now we would like to express our thanks for the patience and understanding that has been shown by all those affected.


===========================

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To consider 61563 HTAFC's (unanswered) point again, is it not possible that the buffer locking occured after the loco had derailed: A result of the derailment rather than the cause?....

A message sent out to Northern staff on Wednesday night contained a brief notice that one of the 47's buffer was wedged under the rear Mk1 and that only the first four coaches would initially be moved, this later changed to all five to move off and leave the 47. I rather suspect the evils of 'Chinese Whispers' is afoot....

....Just a theory, mind, as like yourself I find it difficult to envisage how the buffers could have become locked when the train was running normally....

I struggle to understand how a 110t locomotive would lose a battle with a 30t coach if it had been the cause, nevermind how it happened or the physical forces acting on the buffers!

First scheduled train along Chat Moss from Liverpool is the 12-46 to Stalybridge.
So everything should be back to normal this afternoon.

Terminated at Earlestown, the 1346 also now listed as terminating at Earlestown.

 

[455driver]

Indeed, 47500 has quite an illustrious history in locomotive terms. Not that West Coast seem to have been bothered in recognising the fact thus far when they daubed it in the same drab brown colour they apply to all their locomotives, and at the end of the day it is just another lump of machinery, that just happened to be singled out for special treatment in the past.

It was going to be painted in a more appropriate livery but <the owner> got so fed up with every spotter from here to India saying it should be painted this that and the other colour (some even ringing him up) he thought "sod it" and painted it standard WCRC colours.

 

[davido39]

Perhaps a change of livery to "Stroudley Improved Engine Green" to brighten up their image....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LB&SCR_A1_class

You mean this livery? ^^^

Hey that "green" livery just might work, reminds me of a boy racer car, what with the orange like colour and the black bonnet! Unfortunately I fear with the yellow cab ends it just may clash a bit lol.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

13:23 Preston to Hazel Grove and 14:03 Manchester Airport to Southport now appear to be scheduled to run through the damaged section.

In which case they have either done a superb job investigating and clearing the line, or they got lucky with the track damage. Either way its good news!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hey that "green" livery just might work, reminds me of a boy racer car, what with the orange like colour and the black bonnet! Unfortunately I fear with the yellow cab ends it just may clash a bit lol.

Think the colours it was most associated with should have been chosen. Still this debate could go on for hours but if boothy calls its game over and the colour won't matter!

 

[jasonkerner]

Just went past site on replacement bus. 47500 is right at the end of the mosi siding. You wouldn't be able to get close from the museum end. It looks pretty burnt from what I could see

 

[Zoidberg]

Network Rail has just Tweeted

#SalfordCrescent All track repairs are now complete and lines are reopened

A difficult looking job well done by all concerned, I think.

 

[whizzylizzy]

14.44 from Blackpool North just passed Oxford Road.

 

[fgwrich]

It was going to be painted in a more appropriate livery but <the owner> got so fed up with every spotter from here to India saying it should be painted this that and the other colour (some even ringing him up) he thought "sod it" and painted it standard WCRC colours.

Mostly down to a section of a well known magazine i gather, as in what there's alot of on here - Speculation and Rumours.

 

[Ploughman]

As the loco has now appeared on the MOSI site the following question seems appropriate.

Could this be the last rail movement from the mainline to the museum before the connection gets severed by the new chord line?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Mostly down to a section of a well known magazine i gather, as in what there's alot of on here - Speculation and Rumours.

That's only human nature tho isn't it? And an open forum such as this gives people an opportunity to compare notes and debate the matter and perhaps find out some facts tht might just dispel the rumour. So ok, we are not accident investigators, but there's nothing wrong with developing reasonable guesses as to what might have happened.

as long as we understand the true facts won't out unil the RAIB publish its reports.

 

[PR1Berske]

As the loco has now appeared on the MOSI site the following question seems appropriate.

Could this be the last rail movement from the mainline to the museum before the connection gets severed by the new chord line?

MOSI has objected to the Curve plans, which will require an investigation

 

[gimmea50anyday]

MOSI has objected to the Curve plans, which will require an investigation

Well yes, and I can appreciate why. What I can't understand is why no thought has been made to connecting to the new chord instead. Nor can I understand why once all the consultation has been done and the final plans have been submitted, they have allowed 2 years to get permission to proceed before they start work. No wonder it takes us so long to get things done in this country. We spend far too much time talking about it!


Here's a really bold suggestion, make the chord wide enough for 3 tracks. Give MoSI a dedicated line all the way to Salford central, or perhaps even victoria. there is space on the viaduct. Ok, it's gonna cost a few more quid to build but from a maintenance perspective, its not really gonna cost that much more in upkeep. The idea would never catch on tho...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.... No wonder it takes us so long to get things done in this country. We spend far too much time talking about it!....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fqjw2J1vI

 

[Chris125]

What I can't understand is why no thought has been made to connecting to the new chord instead.

If you look at the planned alignment the curve would be too severe - i'm afraid there just isn't a cost-effective way to retain a mainline connection, especially one that's been so rarely used. Anyway, i think this is a topic for another thread....

Chris

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Very well done job to re-instate services in short time. Understand some nifty rerailing and track repairs done. Always impressed by the Mancunian railway "can do" attitude.

 

[Inox]

Sorry if this has been asked previously, but do we know if NR have commented on the cause of the derailment?

I appreciate NR's 'quick response', but travelling between manchester and bolton over the past 4 days has been pretty horrendous.

 

[GM078]

Good to see that nobody was injured. Have to say, while it's a pity about the rear loco, the fire service seem to have done a good job in ensuring that the fire didn't spread to the carriages. As a volunteer with a heritage TOC I appreciate how loss of carriage stock alone could cripple such an organisation.