Man claims £40,000 of train refunds without paying for a single journey

[Tetchytyke]

When the technology costs less than the lost revenue, it will be implemented. Until then, it won't be. Many of the existing flags are just that- flags- and TOCs have to be careful not to reject too many legitimate claims.

As for this fraud, it looks like he mainly used a duff debit card to fraudulently obtain genuine tickets, which is presumably why it took them so long to get sufficient evidence for a prosecution
As @LowLevel says, will have been a long time after the TOCs cottoned on to what he was doing, not least because you have to let him carry on for a while under observation to prove concerted fraud) .

 

[RJ]

TOCs are starting to share information, but they have to be careful not to fall foul of data protection laws.

It has been happening for years - at least one has a ding on the ICO's records for a likely breach after being rather naughty with it. Large organisations should really be taking those laws seriously.

 

[crablab]

There is a Legitimate Interest in sharing data to prevent fraud and financial crime

(Of course the way you do this has to be balanced against the rights of the individual etc. But the principal is not prohibited by the GDPR)

 

[Starmill]

A lot of delay repay forms are appallingly over-complicated and take far too long to fill in. Some companies try to enforce onerous requirements on honest customers, and refuse to pay unless their crazy boxes are ticked.

On one memorable occasion, West Midlands Trains refused to pay a £5 claim because the ticket in question hadn't been cut in half. The ticket was a Rover ticket that remained valid for further journeys, so it couldn't be cut in half!

A number of companies have rejected valid claims because they allege fraud, including Northern and GTR. Obviously this isn't an appropriate behaviour either.

 

[Starmill]

It has been happening for years - at least one has a ding on the ICO's records for a likely breach after being rather naughty with it. Large organisations should really be taking those laws seriously.

It's clear that a lot of train companies do have senior management that don't think the law applies to them.

 

[Kite159]

A lot of delay repay forms are appallingly over-complicated and take far too long to fill in. Some companies try to enforce onerous requirements on honest customers, and refuse to pay unless their crazy boxes are ticked.

On one memorable occasion, West Midlands Trains refused to pay a £5 claim because the ticket in question hadn't been cut in half. The ticket was a Rover ticket that remained valid for further journeys, so it couldn't be cut in half!

A number of companies have rejected valid claims because they allege fraud, including Northern and GTR. Obviously this isn't an appropriate behaviour either.

Blame XC for starting with that requirement which Abellio operated companies followed.

 

[jrh2254]

2 year jail term.

 

[Darandio]

Or a quotable version from the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-52152263

A conman funded a "lavish lifestyle" that included trips to Las Vegas by scamming rail delay compensation schemes out of £40,000.

Thomas Ingram was jailed for two years after pleading guilty at Preston Crown Court to nine counts of fraud.

Ingram, from Blackpool, Lancashire, targeted nine train companies, between 2013 to 2018.

The 34-year-old submitted claims for fake trips in a "sophisticated" scam, British Transport Police (BTP) said.

He produced and printed hundreds of fake tickets from his home, which he used to make claims, hiding behind 40 aliases and false addresses, a BTP spokesperson added.

"The delay-repay compensation scheme was put in place to compensate honest fare-paying members of the travelling public who have genuinely been inconvenienced by delayed trains," said Det Sgt Paddy Kerr.

"This isn't a victimless crime - it is not right that someone should use dishonest means to steal from legitimate companies to fund a lavish lifestyle while impacting on the costs of rail fares for honest, paying passengers."

 

[Peter Sarf]

Or a quotable version from the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-52152263

Doesn't look too happy does he !.

 

[HH]

Blame XC for starting with that requirement which Abellio operated companies followed.

They use the same webform. And it does have far too many questions, but at least it doesn't ask your date of birth, which Merseyrail does.

 

[sefton]

It makes a persuasive case for a central delay repay processing centre with robust processes for checking claims. Frequent claimers could be flagged for additional scrutiny.

It's a simple matter to flag up people with questionable histories - multiple claims at the same address, multiple repayments to the same details, many claims on the same day in different parts of the country, etc.

Or alternatively the train companies start running trains on time so there is no Delay Repay...

 

[Peter Sarf]

Or alternatively the train companies start running trains on time so there is no Delay Repay...

Well... there will always be delays or other reasons to claim. Just need to organise/coordinate it better.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The name Ingram and fraud seem to go together don’t they? (With apologies to any members of that name who are as clean as a whistle.)

 

[dk1]

Or alternatively the train companies start running trains on time so there is no Delay Repay...

In a perfect world maybe. Then again with the current situation and few if any passengers to cause issues, they seem to be achieving just that.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Or alternatively the train companies start running trains on time so there is no Delay Repay...

In a perfect world maybe. Then again with the current situation and few if any passengers to cause issues, they seem to be achieving just that.

Indeed. Is it too far off-topic to note that this is perhaps the best chance ever to test the truth of the statement that 'the railways would be easy to run if it wasn't for the passengers'?

 

[ComUtoR]

Indeed. Is it too far off-topic to note that this is perhaps the best chance ever to test the truth of the statement that 'the railways would be easy to run if it wasn't for the passengers'?

Every train I've driven for the past two weeks has been on precisely on time with the exception of two. One was because a passenger found a cupboard open and dispatch was delayed as it had to be locked out and the other was due to a block being taken and we got diverted. Still only lost a minute or so because the delay was swallowed up because the pathway is so generous and there is no congestion.

 

[TheEdge]

Indeed. Is it too far off-topic to note that this is perhaps the best chance ever to test the truth of the statement that 'the railways would be easy to run if it wasn't for the passengers'?

I heard that GA managed something like 98% on time last week.

It seems we've identified the cause of delays!

 

[O L Leigh]

In a perfect world maybe. Then again with the current situation and few if any passengers to cause issues, they seem to be achieving just that.

*Doffs hat*

Indeed. Is it too far off-topic to note that this is perhaps the best chance ever to test the truth of the statement that 'the railways would be easy to run if it wasn't for the passengers'?

Well I’ve been early most times. My only delay has been due to a signal check causing me to miss my slot over a key junction.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

It makes me almost angry that there are innocent people out there who suffer and somebody like this gets to claim delays worth £40,000 !

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It makes me almost angry that there are innocent people out there who suffer and somebody like this gets to claim delays worth £40,000 !

And gets caught and sent to prison...

 

[Peter Sarf]

And gets caught and sent to prison...

Of course prison is not cheap. It used to cost the tax payer £42k per year to detain someone. That is why community service is a better idea where possible. Cheaper for the taxpayer and puts something back into society. My view is that prison is not really about punishment though I would avoid it myself. I see prison as a place to put people we do not want in the public domain. The danger with prison is that it is a university of crime . There is even a portion of the population that prefer to be in prison as their home life is unbearable. For this gent a criminal record is going to be the worst punishment. Hard to get a job now and possibly forever - assuming he had one and/or wanted one.

 

[starlightEXPRESS]

I heard that GA managed something like 98% on time last week.

It seems we've identified the cause of delays!

There was a letter in one of the national newspapers a few years ago from a commuter from Kent(?), who reported that a station announcer had blamed delays one morning on the fact that "everybody wants to go to London."

Needless to say, the author went on to offer profuse apologies to Southeastern for the inconvenience he and his fellow passengers had caused!

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Sure, but the scale of this fraud and its long term, deliberate nature resting at least in part in forged tickets made a custodial sentence unavoidable under the sentencing guidelines, I think, even after the magistrates gave some credit for a guilty plea.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sure, but the scale of this fraud and its long term, deliberate nature resting at least in part in forged tickets made a custodial sentence unavoidable under the sentencing guidelines, I think, even after the magistrates gave some credit for a guilty plea.

i really want him punished but I realise prison is a costly way of doing it. Anyway I hope they are confiscating his possessions via the proceeds of crime act. I know some, at least, of the ill gotten gains have been frittered away on holidays.

 

[Inthewest]

i really want him punished

And that is why judges and laws exist.
They take the personal feelings out of it and make sure judgements are somewhat fair.

 

[Peter Sarf]

And that is why judges and laws exist.
They take the personal feelings out of it and make sure judgements are somewhat fair.

Oh yes, I agree, beware the vigilantes.

But I did mean punished via the proper route. I was just pointing out that there are many forms of punishment and I am not sure prison is the best or most cost effective. There are many who think prison is counter productive and from evidence I tend to agree there are arguments there. However I think prison is unavoidable for people we need to keep permanently or long-term out of society it is either that or capital punishment !.