Man stabbed on Guildford to London train near Horsley

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Starmill, 4 Jan 2019.

  1. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-46763150

    How terribly shocking. Not news one expects to hear coming from Horsley.
     
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  3. RichardKing

    RichardKing Member

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    Train involved is 2D38 Guildford to London Waterloo.
     
  4. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    Horrific, and a somewhat surprising route on which to hear of this, being rich stockbroker belt country and Guildford being an affluent town. Of course, anything can happen anywhere, but knife crime is much more typically associated with urban environments. Thoughts with all the victims.
     
  5. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    Very sad to hear this. I can't imagine how terrifying this was for any passengers in the same bit of the train, and for the staff, for that matter. It's almost worse that the person made off at Clandon, as there aren't going to have been an awful lot of resources immediately available to track them down over what could be a relatively large bit of mixed countryside and suburbia.

    From a purely "commentary" perspective... whilst the local small towns and villages may be almost entirely peaceful, and have a lot of well-off commuters, some rather "interesting" characters board these trains at off-peak times. Years ago, Clandon was the first place I came across drug dealing on the railway. Some of the problems do remain. Guildford, too, has some troubled souls, despite being a bustling county town.
     
  6. Master29

    Master29 Established Member

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  7. JW16

    JW16 Member

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    RTT states it was cancelled at Horsley due to "disorder".
     
  8. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Reasons stated on RTT are not to be taken at face value.
     
  9. Dren Ahmeti

    Dren Ahmeti Member

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    And it’s being interally categorised as a “passenger disorder”.
    From what I’ve heard and read, the driver and guard were helping the MOP (Member of the Public) very quickly and professionally.
     
  10. Dren Ahmeti

    Dren Ahmeti Member

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    They’ll just go off the default TRUST attribution code, right?
     
  11. Fearless

    Fearless Member

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    It's beyond awful to think how traumatic that was for those crew members who tried to help. Wishing them well.
     
  12. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Correct, which means several things. In the immediate aftermath of an incident, attribution may not be finalised or correct. Even if it were, delay attribution descriptors may not always reflect what ordinary folk off the street may understand them to be.

    There are others but I won't go into too much depth here.
     
  13. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Apparently driver was first on scene due to location. Poor sod I really hope he/she wasn't too badly affected by what must have been very nasty scenes.
     
  14. moley

    moley Member

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    Thoughts go out to the Victims.

    Curiously, at about 14:18 a 8x455 went country bound through Guildford with three blows on the horn. I don't believe it stopped based on the speed it was doing. The following train was only 3 minutes later and stopped.
     
  15. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That isn't the incident train in case you were wondering as it hasn't yet moved.
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I don't think that's a false description of the situation.
     
  17. Lucan

    Lucan Member

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    If the suspect got on at London Road and off at Clandon, I wonder why the train was not stopped until Horsley. [The station sequence is Guildford - London Road - Clandon - Horsley - ]
     
  18. Dren Ahmeti

    Dren Ahmeti Member

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    I’d like to think that the Driver was either not aware until after Clandon or it was deemed quicker/easier for the MOP to get ambulance attendance at Horsley. The suspect reportedly left the sevice at Clandon with the attack occuring either stopped at Clandon, or between London Road and Clandon.
    This is purely speculation and not backed up with any sources, by the way.
     
  19. 700007

    700007 Member

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    My thoughts go out to the victim, their friends and family too. They also go to the guard and driver on that train who hopefully weren't too shaken by this event. It is shocking the location this has happened but anything can happen anywhere.

    Just out of curiosity, for a fairly (thankfully) rare event, who picks up the delay minutes for this? Would this be Network Rail?
     
  20. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    TOC event.
     
  21. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

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    I would think the TOC as the incident is on thier train and not Network Rail Infrastructure. Thoughts with the victims family and all affected staff
     
  22. 700007

    700007 Member

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    Even though this was beyond their control and the train temporarily is longer in their control but under police control until they hand it back which will take a few hours?

    Unfortunate for SWR but I guess it is difficult to charge anybody for these delay minutes as it is beyond anyone's control other than the criminal.
     
  23. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    Entirely likely. Passengers on London-bound trains calling at London Road are likely to get on at the front of the train, which would also make the proximity to the driver's cab much greater than usual.
     
  24. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Unfortunately in delay attribution terms someone has to pick up the delay. Very broadly speaking NR would not pick up an incident unless track access is denied.
     
  25. Dren Ahmeti

    Dren Ahmeti Member

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    Sky News showing an overhead shot of SOCO on scene, with Clandon station closed and cordoned off.
     
  26. 700007

    700007 Member

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    Thank you for your responses, certainly learnt something today.
     
  27. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    Thoughts with the victim, family, and rail staff, and hope they find the perpetrator.

    It appears, if anyone is having to get round this, down trains non-stopping Horsley and Clandon (nonstop from Effingham Junction to London Road (Guildford)) and up trains diverted via Woking. A few trains reversing at Effingham Junction or Epsom.
     
  28. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    National Rail Enquiries said it was due to a passenger being taken ill.

    Truely awulful event. Thoughts to all those affected; person who died and any families. I hope the police are able to locate the person and that there is enough evidence to help them get to the bottom of what happened. The train may not have been that busy so there may not be so many witnesses. I kind of hope someone might have caught something on video. Not because I want such things filmed but be ause it might be some additional evidence to the police to help them investigate this.

    This even made the Austrian news, according to someone I know who lives out there.

    Surprisingly trains through the area this evening seem to be running with shorter delays than on the fast mainline to Woking.

    The first train north to stop at all stations, bar Clandon and Horsley is the 19:58 Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom, followed by 20:07 to Waterloo via Cobham.

    As I was at London Bridge Road a fast non stop 455 went through. May have been an ECS.

    Clandon platform on the up was deserted when I went through. I didn't look to out at Horsley.
     
  29. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Sky now reporting that BTP have said the 51 year old male victim was travelling with his 14 year old son.
    How unspeakably horrific.
     
  30. delt1c

    delt1c Member

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    My Thoughts go to the immediate staff who attended. Had to deal with 1st hand a fatality over 40 years ago and images have never left me
     
  31. Meole

    Meole Member

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    Why not ? This appears to be a reasonable statement at face value, what wording would you prefer ?
     

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