Man stabbed on Guildford to London train near Horsley

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Starmill, 4 Jan 2019.

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  1. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    Where are the cctv grabs of this?
     
  2. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    The BTP press release also states that is was a multiple stabbing .

    The incident, compounded by his son presumably closely witnessing the event is traumatic and quite frankly terrifying.

    Clandon and Horsely are both rural villages and the fact that the assailant hasn't been caught will be leading to a traumatic evening and night for locals.

    No doubt more details will come out as to what triggered this but it's not good.

    Prayers and thoughts to all involved.
     
  3. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    I'd imagine and hope they are being processed now.

    It would have been a 455 which won't have remote access so I guess the train has to be downloaded on depot. The train was held at horsley until this evening before the police released it and I imagine it's gone to Wimbledon park.
     
  4. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    I believe the man was initially alive following the stabbing but died while the ambulance and police attended to him.

    Still traumatic all round.
     
  5. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I'm sure images will be published by the police soon.
     
  6. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Unlikely unless they need to issue an appeal to locate/ID the suspect. The right to privacy applies to criminals too...
     
  7. nickswift99

    nickswift99 Member

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    This is a truly shocking incident, both for the son, the other passengers and the train crew.

    If the reports are correct that the driver was the first person to help, then they should get the support and recognition that they deserve. This incident is clearly beyond anyone's job description and I hope that all involved are able to recover from this.
     
  8. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    As there is currently a manhunt going on for the suspect who is described as a black man in his 20s/30s, slim, wearing all black clothes and white trainers and police advising not to approach but dial 999 , it's fair to say they are very keen to locate him and I'm sure a picture will be made available if there is one.
     
  9. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    The police will release images once they have them and if they consider they need to.

    I assume you think your "privacy" comment was clever. You're very wrong.
     
  10. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Nothing clever about it - it's the law.
    Unless there's a valid policing reason to publish the photo pre-charge (e.g. if they still haven't caught the alleged perpetrator and determine that publishing the photo will aid that) then they are not allowed to release the photo and, even if they do, the press can't publish it.
    It may seem stupid, but it's the law. The alleged criminal has a right to privacy unless/until they're charged.
     
  11. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Established Member

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    Which is why, even when the police were questioning them, everyone knew the names and photos of those who (it turned out) didn’t fly drones over Gatwick airport.

    Criminals do have some rights, but those arrested are a public document.
     
  12. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    They shouldn't be, and there are going to be some telling offs I think as it was against the law naming them, especially as they were released without charge.

    I am actually thinking it must be worse to have a stabbing and a person die as a passenger, especially as the driver was first on scene to help and he was still alive then, than a person hit for the driver, but I'm not really sure.

    I hope that all involved get the emotional support they need over the coming weeks and months and I'm the longer term.
     
  13. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    Has this always been the case? How did crime watch get away with broadcasting all those 'e-fits'?
     
  14. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Not any more I'm afraid, the Cliff Richard ruling settled that, especially in the case of serious offences. This is (mostly) the same reason the name of the person arrested at Man Victoria on NYE hasn't been released - the threshold is now when a formal charge is made, authorised by the CPS.
    Whether that's right is another question, but it is how it is.
     
  15. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Indeed. I certainly wouldn't want to be the lawyer representing anyone who identified them.
     
  16. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    I thought the man Vic man was eventually detained under the mental health act, so a different ball game I'd imagine.
     
  17. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    In those cases, police were trying to identify an unknown subject (hence the efit) or showing the photo of someone they were making a public appeal to catch. In both cases, a legitimate policing purpose, and so legal.
     
  18. Ladder23

    Ladder23 Member

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    cannot imagine what the poor young lad is going through, how shocking, I hope they find the attacker, bring back the death penalty.
     
  19. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Only the following evening. We all knew the ID well before then. If he's charged, we'll name him. Unless/until then, it would be a breach of his privacy. If he is dearrested without charge, yet continues to be detained under the MHA, then that is complicated indeed and I'll be asking a lawyer.
     
  20. Bayum

    Bayum Established Member

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    I'd imagine so - particularly someone who was 'living' whilst being treated until passing away shortly afterwards.
     
  21. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    Especially as, I'm guessing, there may still have been a shred of hope when the driver was the first on the scene!
     
  22. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know. I have no problem with whatever gets put on RTT's website from an attribution point of view, as I don't use it for that purpose.

    I was under the impression that JW16 was questioning the term used on there, and was just trying to explain they were not to be taken literally, as they often aren't reflective of what the coding eventually is. I may have got the wrong end of the stick.
     
  23. GodAtum

    GodAtum Established Member

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    I can only imagine the suspect is hiding out in the woods and fields ... there's not much else there unless he got a lift!
     
  24. BazzaCFC

    BazzaCFC Member

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    South Western Railway will have to have an urgent safety brief with all train guards and drivers regarding this incident and involve paramedics and police to give advice to the guards and drivers as to what to do if a murder takes place on a train they are working. Conflict awareness training will not cut it. The guards and drivers are not paramedics and have not even been given first aid training. What must a guard do if they happen upon a violent brawl/attempted murder/murder involving weapons whilst carrying out their obligatory safety check of the train? Obviously they must not put themselves in danger but how can they help the victim if the assailant is still on the train? The guard was very lucky in this incident today if reports of this being a "random frenzied attack" are true, they could have even been the victim themselves. My prayers go to the victim, his son, his family and the train crew who had to deal with this terrible incident.
     
  25. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    This is not true.
     
  26. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    Those thoughts had crossed my mind. Unless he's located tonight, I'd imagine a lot of people around clandon are going to have an unsettled weekend .
     
  27. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Do you not think train crew already have security briefings on such things? There's no solid process to follow in each case as every one is different.

    It's a horrible and shocking thing but it's not the first time and it probably won't be the last. A passenger was stabbed to death on a Voyager in 2006 at Oxenholme.

    We just get on with it like any other eventuality. By their nature things happen without warning.
     
  28. swt class 450

    swt class 450 Guest

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    Very sad to hear. I'm certainly surprised it happened in Horsley. Its such a nice peaceful rural countryside village. It was even named as the most expensive village in the UK. It's certainly far from the sort of place you would expect this sort of thing to happen. My thoughts with everyone involved and all who had to deal with this.
     
  29. BazzaCFC

    BazzaCFC Member

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    Very blasé and nonchalant response from user LowLevel when a violent "random frenzied" murder has taken place on a train and it could have been the train guard as the victim. The assailant hasn't been found and is still on the loose, what if he and boards another train and murders someone else??? You need an army on these trains....
     
  30. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    No, you don't. There's no suggestion that this is terrorism, but you're reacting like people react to terrorism. It's happened, what, twice in 20 years, or 3 times if you count the Manchester Victoria incident? That's quite a good record. More people have died crossing the road in front of the station in that time.

    It's sad, but it's necessary to be proportionate about the genuine risk of these things.
     
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