Man stabbed on Guildford to London train near Horsley

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Starmill, 4 Jan 2019.

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  1. Tio Terry

    Tio Terry Member

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    My part of the world. I know a lot of friends in the area. A lot of us are registered shotgun owners, I’m guessing a lot are out of their locked cases tonight!
     
  2. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    Child abduction
    Multiple assaults
    Potential knife attack (prevented)
    Gun reported
    Bike theft
    Suitcase theft
    Racist assault

    That's just what I have experienced. It's not nonchalance, its acceptance and understanding about the industry we work in. We are all concerned and get internal briefs all the time. We had one sent out yesterday about a different security issue. The last murder in my TOC area was November last year.

    For some of us; this is just another day on the railway.
     
  3. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    No, it was a sensible, measured response.

    It's a very sad event to have taken place but there is no reason to believe there is likely to be a recurrence.
     
  4. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    I don't know what toc you work for, but someone suffering multiple stab wounds and being killed is not just another day on swr let alone on the new line.
     
  5. swt class 450

    swt class 450 Guest

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    From what I've read it seems that witnesses were saying that they were fighting and arguing over something before the stabbing. So they must have either known each other or something happened on the train to start the fighting and arguing rather than it being a random attack. Let's hope they find the suspect. Although it will be quite difficult as he could be miles away and in a different county by now.
     
  6. DennisM

    DennisM Member

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    I think it’s unlikely they’ll say anything to staff, the policy in such situations will be to stay back and not endanger yourself which certainly won’t change. At most I think they will reiterate this and the process of reporting such a situation, below is an example of another knife/acid attack on the SWR suburban network, after which I don’t believe there was any rebreifing of traincrew.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...ed-in-late-night-brawl-on-train-a3868751.html

    With the current RMT dispute I can’t see SWR wanting to offer any further training for this or any emergency situation as doing so will only reinforce the argument for retaining a guard on every train.
     
  7. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    I understand you may be concerned and worried following the day's events but it's my job to be nonchalant about anything that happens on my train as far as humanly possible. I've had to deal with a full blown riot with bottles being thrown and all sorts on a packed train before - would you want me to manage it calmly or would you want the uniformed staff to be visibly panicked?

    Managing disturbing events calmly is absolutely crucial to doing my job successfully.

    We are already briefed on all sorts of things, I won't go into detail here because that would be inappropriate.

    Violent attacks on trains are extremely unpleasant things but they're also quite uncommon to this extent and when they do occur we deal with them as best we can.
     
  8. muz379

    muz379 Established Member

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    I dont know what good training with paramedics or police would do . Even if first aid training was given and talks delivered by paramedics not to be gruesome but from experience in the case of someone fatally wounded unless you have 2 or 3 units of compatible blood and a Dr on site who can reliably stem any haemorrhage there is not a lot you can do even if they are alive when you first start delivering first aid to them , in this case it certainly sounds from reports as if the person was alive when the driver was first alerted to the injured person .

    As for safety briefings with the police , again this incident happened on a line which seems to have caused some surprise among staff I know so not even an expected sort of incident that staff can be on guard for or security resources can be deployed for . And even so unless we get given the right to search all passengers before they board we cannot and will not stop people that wish to carry knives bringing them on trains . Arguments and fights can flare up at any time its not just the Friday and Saturday night trains full of drunks if it was indeed an argument that led to this incident . If it was the type of random argument that leads to one person possibly under the influence of drugs or alcohol reaching for a knife these incidents are not isolated to trains , they happen in all sorts of other public places all of the time . It is an unfortunate fact of life that some people do behave in this manner .

    Yes without knowing that many details it appears reasonable to see how the guard very much so could have been the victim of today's attack either directly or through trying to prevent it if they had happened upon it whilst patrolling the train . And this is very much a risk of the job . Its impossible to set out a procedure for how incidents of this nature must be handled because there are far too many variables and it can be a fluid situation . But basic protocol with any sort of disturbance on board is to move non involved passengers to safety and call emergency services assistance whilst keeping yourself safe .
     
  9. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    The sad reality of the world is you're always 'at risk' though, even if you're laid in bed at home like I am right now the next thing I know a burglar could be coming at me with a knife just as an example, it isn't just in the workplace!
     
  10. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    I'm not a lawyer, I'm a journalist. What I wrote, however, is pretty much verbatim what I was told this afternoon by our in-house lawyer when I asked the question. It's also what I understand myself from the recent case law.
    Your opinion may differ, and that's fine; but if I named this person I would be summarily dismissed from my job, render myself professionally unemployable, and leave myself open to litigation under Article 8.
     
  11. Jack15001

    Jack15001 Member

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    The police have said they don't think they were known to each other, anyway I'm sure we'll find out more in due course, it would be inappropriate to speculate.
     
  12. Jack15001

    Jack15001 Member

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    Will they? Doesn't existing training cover it? I'm not sure how anybody can legislate for something like this, fortunately such incidents are extremely rare.
     
  13. duncanp

    duncanp Member

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    The police have now arrested a man who they believe is the suspect

    They have also arrested a woman on suspicion of assisting an offender.
     
  14. Dieseldriver

    Dieseldriver Member

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    A bit of a strange comment I think. A driver suffering a fatality or an incident of this nature are both extremely traumatic and all types of incident will be unique. Some one unders will be easier to deal with than this, some one unders will be worse to deal with than this. Some Drivers would be unable to return to work after a fatality, some would be unable to return to work after directly dealing with a fatal stabbing on their train.
    My thoughts are with the victim, the victims family, the train crew and any other people affected (including the emergency services).
     
  15. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    While I understand that maybe saying that was possibly a bit odd, but I was trying to get across that this is different to a fatality in that way, and that it might be worse for the driver, but as you say there is a very mixed range of the affect of both of these.

     
  16. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Established Member

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    Somebody has been murdered. Their teenage son witnessed it, as presumably did other passengers. Others who didn’t witness it have also had to deal with the incident.

    Do we really need a debate on whether this incident or a PHBT is better or worse for the driver or who knows the law regarding publishing photos of the suspect better?
     
  17. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    I wasn't trying to start a debate, so sorry if this has caused offence. I will stop discussing the incident, and if the mods want me to get rid of the parts of my post referring to this I will.
     
  18. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If anyone has any concern with a post, please use the report button, and let us deal with it, thank you.

    BBC report:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-46768203
    This is welcome news. It's an awful thing to have happened but at least we know the culript isn't on the loose.

    True; you can never totally eliminate risk, though the risk is very small as stated in the a I've article.
    It's a terrible event but there is no reason to believe the risk has suddenly got much greater after it. A sense of perspective is needed.
     
  19. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Indeed and as the Assistant Chief Constable Sean O'Callaghan pointed out to the BBC:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-46768203
     
  20. Dieseldriver

    Dieseldriver Member

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    I don't think it's an issue to be discussing such things. I didn't agree with A.challenge but I don't think they're being disrespectful in any way and I'm sure that everyone on this thread is aware of the devastating nature of what's happened and has the upmost sympathy and respect towards everyone affected.
     
  21. Gathursty

    Gathursty Established Member

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    Very sorry to read about this news! Horsley is a place I'm quite fond of given it was the last station in the country I visited before the newer ones opened. I'd imagine it must have been a most frightening experience. It is good that the culprits have been arrested given it is wide open countryside near Clandon.

    Has the affected train been moved yet? What will happen to it between now and the court trial?
     
  22. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    It has been said it will have to go to depot before it can have the CCTV downloaded, which I guess has happened, but beyond then I don't know, but the train has been moved and trains appear to be running normally (including stopping at Horsley and Clandon in both directions).
     
  23. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    The train was moved early yesterday evening and the line fully reopened. I'd imagine that the train will be back in traffic pretty soon once any cleaning has been completed and hopefully CCTV downloaded . The police will pretty much have done what they needed to on the train in terms of evidence collection.
     
  24. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    Very good news and will be a great comfort to people in the Guildford area as who knows where he would be by now .

    I see on the BBC report it says that officers are now trying to search for the weapon used in an area between clandon and Farnham. Good luck with that......
     
  25. goblinuser

    goblinuser Member

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    My thoughts and prayers go to his son, witnesses, and the driver.
     
  26. whhistle

    whhistle On Moderation

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    So you'd be okay being named if you were SUSPECTED of something awful (like murder)?
    Because everyone would see you as a murderer even if the charges were dropped / found to be untrue.


    Not necessarily.
    I was on the Underground over Christmas when some guy had another guy by the scruffs. Others broke the fight up but I heard the guy on the platform say "they'll be waiting for you at the next station mate". I thought about calling him out to be a liar and an idiot. There was nobody at the next stop... but it made me wonder why the person said it to begin with... as in, what in his mind decided that would be a good thing to say, when it clearly wasn't going to be true.


    Not sure the TOC should be responsible for paying Delay Repay for this either.
    Nobody should pay.
    I knw it's a slippery slope maybe for ways TOCs could get out of paying but it's not fair on them - despite their flaws.


    For what gain?
    A deterrent?
    A deterrent is only a deterrent if the user is willing to use it.
    I'm sure the shotgun user would think twice about shooting someone and becoming a murderer themselves. A criminal who regularly stabs people isn't going to think twice about ending your life.
     
    Last edited: 5 Jan 2019
  27. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Thoughts with all those affected - sounds like an absolutely awful incident.

    We don’t know the circumstances yet, however another thread springs to mind where a few posters wisely urged caution over the potential risks of becoming embroiled in arguments with random people, and in that thread this gave the specific example of trivial things like luggage on seats. Sadly one can never know if the other person may be a psycho.
     
  28. duncanp

    duncanp Member

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    I think the police will have to try and find out, if they can, why the suspect was carrying a knife in the first place.

    No-one needs to carry a knife around with them in public in ordinary circumstances.

    So did the suspect go out that day with the intention of killing someone at random?

    Does he have a previous record of this type of behaviour?

    How did the argument start, and how did it escalate?

    Presumably the witness statements will help the police establish what happened.
     
  29. westv

    westv Established Member

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    Thankfully a suspect has been found which is more than they were able to do for Deborah Linsley.
     
  30. Tio Terry

    Tio Terry Member

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    Shotguns make a lot of noise and frighten people when they are not expecting them. A shot to the sky can easily deter someone, safer to avoid that area than move towards it. Defence, not assault.

    Faced with someone with a knife I would not hesitate to use anything I had to defend my family and myself. You don't have to kill to prevent injury.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 6 Jan 2019
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