Man stabbed on Guildford to London train near Horsley

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Starmill, 4 Jan 2019.

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  1. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    UK police forces don't generally release "mugshots", and frankly at 10pm on a Sunday evening the likelihood is simply that on-duty journalists have better things to do than finding photos. They've got a handout from the bereaved family, that'll do for now.
     
  2. Deafdoggie

    Deafdoggie Established Member

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    Many interesting discussions in my family. My sister is in the Police force, and married to a chief Inspector.
    My wives brother is a news editor on a national daily newspaper.
    Both have their own views on what should and should not be shared and when.
    The newspaper tend to believe in wording things more carefully, whilst still sensationally. The argument being it’s in the public interest & as it sells papers that’s undeniable true.
    The Police are often happy to accept newspapers help, so will often tolerate them when they could do without it. The Sir Cliff case being a good example. The Police were complicit in telling the BBC about it, to keep the BBC on side. Few people have the money to take action though.
     
  3. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    So you were presumably amazed to see footage released of a man (allegedly) stealing some beer from a supermarket in Blackpool, which went viral because of his similarity to some American actor. Frankly, I find your conclusion at the end of your first paragraph incredible i.e. lacking credibility.
     
  4. Lucan

    Lucan Member

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    It is in the accused's interest to be named when they go to trial, and for the trial to be in public. It is a fundamental right, without which people can just "disappear" - as happens in some tyranical regimes
     
  5. spark001uk

    spark001uk Established Member

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    Was the train an 8 or 10 car? Just wondering where guard was positioned?
     
  6. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Not at all. The comedy element aside (I assume you're referring to the David Schwimmer lookalike?) the police were asking for help identifying an unknown suspect; nothing wrong with that at all.
    You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion but I'm not sure what it is you find lacking in my explanation? The police in this case knew pretty quickly who they were looking for, and so there was nothing to be gained by releasing an image to the public; therefore, by definition, there cannot have been any legitimate purpose in doing so.

    And therein lies a huge part of the problem. We all, if accused of a crime, have the same rights as Sir Cliff; it's just a shame that access to justice in this country is so utterly dire that the overwhelming majority could never enforce those rights.
    You are completely right in what you say about police and the press needing to work together; albeit that it's a tricky relationship.
     
  7. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    The reason trials are public is because it is deemed to be in the public interest for justice to be done, and to be seen to be done. Hence the presumption - with certain exceptions - that trials are open to the public. That said, I'm not sure I agree that it's ever in the interest of the accused to be named; to receive a fair trial, of course, but I'm sure most people, if accused of a crime, would really rather as few people knew as possible.
     
  8. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

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    The public interest is not the same thing as the public being interested.....
     
  9. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Yep. An important point, often misunderstood.
     
  10. SwindonBert

    SwindonBert Member

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    The suspect has been named in the press now he's been charged with murder

    Also released is the son didn't see the actual stabbing
     
  11. HH

    HH Established Member

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    There are interesting questions around what sort of 35 year old man carries a knife with him on a train from Surrey. That, and how the Police found him so swiftly, without needing to release mugshots.

    You might draw some interesting conclusions from those facts, but I couldn't possibly comment.
     
  12. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Probably very similar to one I had on Jury service:
    Prosecution to Detective (who had arrested the suspect in a restaurant while off-duty and having a meal with his own family):
    "How did you recognise the suspect?"
    Police officer:
    "From his A3 colour mughsot on the wall at Paddington Green...":lol::lol::lol:
     
  13. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    Surely that proves the mugshot worked and he was recognised, and as it was by a police officer that is even better?
     
  14. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The mug shot was only displayed in a part of Paddington Green that isn't open to the public...
     
  15. Dren Ahmeti

    Dren Ahmeti Member

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    8 car, 2x4 455.
     
  16. Jack15001

    Jack15001 Member

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    Police obviously had a good description of him and presumably CCTV footage and DNA from the crime scene. If he was known to the police it wouldn't have taken long to identify him in fact I'm surprised they didn't apprehend him sooner but that's not meant as a criticism.

    Some people routinely carry knives.

    I'm not sure what interesting conclusions there are to be drawn from that?
     
    Last edited: 7 Jan 2019
  17. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    The latter may be an important blessing for him.
     
  18. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    I should imagine that it depends if the son develops feelings of guilt about not being there to help (leaving aside what would be a detached and unhelpful consideration of whether such feelings are rational, of course). That could feel pretty nasty and require extensive counselling.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 7 Jan 2019
  19. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    He's had his initial court appearance.

    Apparently the victim was stabbed 9 times.

    Addressing the court, Mr Pencille said: "Innocent until proven guilty," adding: "I'm paranoid. I'm hearing voices."

    The woman , who has also been remanded is charged with assisting escape and helping him to change his appearance...
     
  20. dctraindriver

    dctraindriver Member

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    Why? Morbid fascination?
     
  21. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Their photos will be released soon enough I'm sure. I don't really need to know what either look like right now.

    I am sure some people only want to see the photo so they can go 'oh, he's obviously a wrongun', assuming it fits the image they've already painted in their mind.
     
  22. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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  23. HH

    HH Established Member

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    That he was probably already known to police and possibly for violent crime.

    Why they didn't catch him sooner is because, allegedly, the other accused was helping him change his appearance and he has no fixed abode.
     
  24. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    It's illegal to take a photograph within, or in the vicinity of, the court. It is also, incidentally, illegal to draw a sketch inside the courtroom itself, the artist has to sit there long enough to memorise the scene then leave the room to do their sketch.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 8 Jan 2019
  25. SamYeager

    SamYeager Member

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    Learn something every day! Didn't realise the sketch had to be drawn outside the courtroom.
     
  26. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There was a photograph of the key defendant on the BBC 18.00 news. He looks quite different from how the sketch makes him look.
     
  27. spark001uk

    spark001uk Established Member

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  28. Jack15001

    Jack15001 Member

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  29. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

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    True, considering the guy involved in the last similar incident on board a train at Oxenholme around 12 years ago was age 22, probably a more typical age most associate with this type of crime
     
    Last edited: 8 Jan 2019
  30. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Somewhat purient that so many posters on this thread wanted to see pictures of the suspect.

    A man has died in extremely distressing circumstances. This thread has served no purpose whatsoever other than to sensationalise. I really do hope that none of Lee Pomeroy's family or friends read this thread.
     
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