Man stabbed on Guildford to London train near Horsley

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Mathew S

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Now that two people have been charged why haven't their pictures been released?
UK police forces don't generally release "mugshots", and frankly at 10pm on a Sunday evening the likelihood is simply that on-duty journalists have better things to do than finding photos. They've got a handout from the bereaved family, that'll do for now.
 
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Deafdoggie

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Many interesting discussions in my family. My sister is in the Police force, and married to a chief Inspector.
My wives brother is a news editor on a national daily newspaper.
Both have their own views on what should and should not be shared and when.
The newspaper tend to believe in wording things more carefully, whilst still sensationally. The argument being it’s in the public interest & as it sells papers that’s undeniable true.
The Police are often happy to accept newspapers help, so will often tolerate them when they could do without it. The Sir Cliff case being a good example. The Police were complicit in telling the BBC about it, to keep the BBC on side. Few people have the money to take action though.
 

Busaholic

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Not for me to make that judgement, but the only circumstances I can think of that would constitute a "legitimate policing purpose" would be either a public appeal to locate a suspect or (not relevant in this case) an appeal for victims/witnesses to assist in building a case. In this specific case, difficult to see either of those justifications being applicable.

You'll note that now people have been charged, they can be - and are being - named.
So you were presumably amazed to see footage released of a man (allegedly) stealing some beer from a supermarket in Blackpool, which went viral because of his similarity to some American actor. Frankly, I find your conclusion at the end of your first paragraph incredible i.e. lacking credibility.
 

Lucan

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Crown Court cases are open to the public and it's deemed in the public interest to be able to name defendants in a trial.
It is in the accused's interest to be named when they go to trial, and for the trial to be in public. It is a fundamental right, without which people can just "disappear" - as happens in some tyranical regimes
 

Mathew S

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So you were presumably amazed to see footage released of a man (allegedly) stealing some beer from a supermarket in Blackpool, which went viral because of his similarity to some American actor. Frankly, I find your conclusion at the end of your first paragraph incredible i.e. lacking credibility.
Not at all. The comedy element aside (I assume you're referring to the David Schwimmer lookalike?) the police were asking for help identifying an unknown suspect; nothing wrong with that at all.
You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion but I'm not sure what it is you find lacking in my explanation? The police in this case knew pretty quickly who they were looking for, and so there was nothing to be gained by releasing an image to the public; therefore, by definition, there cannot have been any legitimate purpose in doing so.

Many interesting discussions in my family. My sister is in the Police force, and married to a chief Inspector.
My wives brother is a news editor on a national daily newspaper.
Both have their own views on what should and should not be shared and when.
The newspaper tend to believe in wording things more carefully, whilst still sensationally. The argument being it’s in the public interest & as it sells papers that’s undeniable true.
The Police are often happy to accept newspapers help, so will often tolerate them when they could do without it. The Sir Cliff case being a good example. The Police were complicit in telling the BBC about it, to keep the BBC on side. Few people have the money to take action though.
And therein lies a huge part of the problem. We all, if accused of a crime, have the same rights as Sir Cliff; it's just a shame that access to justice in this country is so utterly dire that the overwhelming majority could never enforce those rights.
You are completely right in what you say about police and the press needing to work together; albeit that it's a tricky relationship.
 

Mathew S

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It is in the accused's interest to be named when they go to trial, and for the trial to be in public. It is a fundamental right, without which people can just "disappear" - as happens in some tyranical regimes
The reason trials are public is because it is deemed to be in the public interest for justice to be done, and to be seen to be done. Hence the presumption - with certain exceptions - that trials are open to the public. That said, I'm not sure I agree that it's ever in the interest of the accused to be named; to receive a fair trial, of course, but I'm sure most people, if accused of a crime, would really rather as few people knew as possible.
 

HH

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There are interesting questions around what sort of 35 year old man carries a knife with him on a train from Surrey. That, and how the Police found him so swiftly, without needing to release mugshots.

You might draw some interesting conclusions from those facts, but I couldn't possibly comment.
 

hwl

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There are interesting questions around what sort of 35 year old man carries a knife with him on a train from Surrey. That, and how the Police found him so swiftly, without needing to release mugshots.

You might draw some interesting conclusions from those facts, but I couldn't possibly comment.
Probably very similar to one I had on Jury service:
Prosecution to Detective (who had arrested the suspect in a restaurant while off-duty and having a meal with his own family):
"How did you recognise the suspect?"
Police officer:
"From his A3 colour mughsot on the wall at Paddington Green...":lol::lol::lol:
 

A Challenge

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Probably very similar to one I had on Jury service:
Prosecution to Detective (who had arrested the suspect in a restaurant while off-duty and having a meal with his own family):
"How did you recognise the suspect?"
Police officer:
"From his A3 colour mughsot on the wall at Paddington Green...":lol::lol::lol:
Surely that proves the mugshot worked and he was recognised, and as it was by a police officer that is even better?
 

Antman

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There are interesting questions around what sort of 35 year old man carries a knife with him on a train from Surrey. That, and how the Police found him so swiftly, without needing to release mugshots.

You might draw some interesting conclusions from those facts, but I couldn't possibly comment.
Police obviously had a good description of him and presumably CCTV footage and DNA from the crime scene. If he was known to the police it wouldn't have taken long to identify him in fact I'm surprised they didn't apprehend him sooner but that's not meant as a criticism.

Some people routinely carry knives.

I'm not sure what interesting conclusions there are to be drawn from that?
 
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tsr

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The latter may be an important blessing for him.
I should imagine that it depends if the son develops feelings of guilt about not being there to help (leaving aside what would be a detached and unhelpful consideration of whether such feelings are rational, of course). That could feel pretty nasty and require extensive counselling.
 
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theironroad

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He's had his initial court appearance.

Apparently the victim was stabbed 9 times.

Addressing the court, Mr Pencille said: "Innocent until proven guilty," adding: "I'm paranoid. I'm hearing voices."

The woman , who has also been remanded is charged with assisting escape and helping him to change his appearance...
 

jon0844

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Their photos will be released soon enough I'm sure. I don't really need to know what either look like right now.

I am sure some people only want to see the photo so they can go 'oh, he's obviously a wrongun', assuming it fits the image they've already painted in their mind.
 

HH

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Police obviously had a good description of him and presumably CCTV footage and DNA from the crime scene. If he was known to the police it wouldn't have taken long to identify him in fact I'm surprised they didn't apprehend him sooner but that's not meant as a criticism.

Some people routinely carry knives.

I'm not sure what interesting conclusions there are to be drawn from that?
That he was probably already known to police and possibly for violent crime.

Why they didn't catch him sooner is because, allegedly, the other accused was helping him change his appearance and he has no fixed abode.
 

Mathew S

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It's illegal to take a photograph within, or in the vicinity of, the court. It is also, incidentally, illegal to draw a sketch inside the courtroom itself, the artist has to sit there long enough to memorise the scene then leave the room to do their sketch.
 
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SamYeager

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It is also, incidentally, illegal to draw a sketch inside the courtroom itself, the artist has to sit there long enough to memorise the scene then leave the room to do their sketch.
Learn something every day! Didn't realise the sketch had to be drawn outside the courtroom.
 

Mojo

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There was a photograph of the key defendant on the BBC 18.00 news. He looks quite different from how the sketch makes him look.
 

Carlisle

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There are interesting questions around what sort of 35 year old man carries a knife with him on a train from Surrey. .
True, considering the guy involved in the last similar incident on board a train at Oxenholme around 12 years ago was age 22, probably a more typical age most associate with this type of crime
 
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bignosemac

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Somewhat purient that so many posters on this thread wanted to see pictures of the suspect.

A man has died in extremely distressing circumstances. This thread has served no purpose whatsoever other than to sensationalise. I really do hope that none of Lee Pomeroy's family or friends read this thread.
 
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