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Manchester Airport Express???

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tbtc

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Airport services aren't just for "holidaymakers" may I point out. Business travellers, airport workers and inbound tourists are also potential users

Yes, but airport staff at Manchester Airport are less likely to have several heavy bags. Business travellers will have some luggage, granted, but not so much that changing trains is going to be significantly hard work.

Airport workers are going to be fairly "local" too, so less in need of links from all over Northern England.

So, you're only opening up direct services to the North West? Why does Barrow need a through service, but Leeds doesn't? Have I misunderstood what you are saying here?

My idea was that four/hour to the Airport would give a better balance of resources (not the twenty plus coaches each hour that passenger numbers don't justify).

Its easier for Airport services to go from 13/14 at Piccadilly (to avoid the conflicting movement of a 185 getting from the Guide Bridge line to the Airport line as it reverses), and the Preston services match the volume of services I propose for the Airport.

So, it seemed a neat fit. I'm not saying that there's a massive demand from Barrow to Manchester Airport, in the way that Thameslink doesn't suggest a massive demand from Wimbledon to Luton (or Crossrail doesn't suggest a massive demand from Abbey Wood to Maidenhead), these are just two "extremes" that are linked as part of a "core" service.

Bear in mind that I've just tried to give an illustation of what you could do with today's service patterns. Electrification/ Ordsall Curve (plus TPE Scottish services running via Wigan) etc will change all that.
 
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WestCoast

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Someone mentioned that Manchester Airport is the third busiest airport, thats actually not true. Stansted is surprisingly busier than both Birmingham and Manchester and is in fact the third.

2010 based on total passenger numbers:
London Stansted - 18,573,803
Manchester -17,759,015

Manchester is larger, with more routes and airlines. However, Stansted is slightly busier. My gut feeling is that Manchester will overtake Stansted as Gatwick's new owners are really selling themselves and have already 'transferred' some airlines over.
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Yes, but airport staff at Manchester Airport are less likely to have several heavy bags. Business travellers will have some luggage, granted, but not so much that changing trains is going to be significantly hard work.

Airport workers are going to be fairly "local" too, so less in need of links from all over Northern England.

My idea was that four/hour to the Airport would give a better balance of resources (not the twenty plus coaches each hour that passenger numbers don't justify).

Its easier for Airport services to go from 13/14 at Piccadilly (to avoid the conflicting movement of a 185 getting from the Guide Bridge line to the Airport line as it reverses), and the Preston services match the volume of services I propose for the Airport.

Yes, I see what you mean and its an idea worth considering. However, I'd be tempted to wait until the tram link is running before reducing services. At least then there will be an alternative.
 

tbtc

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2010 based on total passenger numbers:
London Stansted - 18,573,803
Manchester -17,759,015

Manchester is larger, with more routes and airlines. However, Stansted is slightly busier. My gut feeling is that Manchester will overtake Stansted

I see Manchester being the bigger of the two in a few years time, as it has a more solid base and mix of business/leisure, rather than Stansted which (to me) seems to be too dependant upon the cheaper end of the market (which is going to be less sustainable as the economy continues to stutter).
 

william

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Well manchester airports catchment spans the whole of northern england and needs a direct link, ok doesnt need one, but its more convenient for me and other punters.....

i have a feeling if direct services from say...the north east were removed, the airport would lose flights as a result, but i may be wrong
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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So what, the Cleethorpes - Manchester Airport will run via Stockport, Victoria, Oxford Road and Piccadilly to the Airport

I had made a posting an another thread some months ago that First TPE had written to me stating that they were adamant that they were not going to change the existing route of the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport services, even though it meant reversal at Manchester Piccadilly remaining.
 

richw

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I travelled from airport into picadilly past Saturday afternoon, I had a coach to.myself in both directions. Can't speak for other carriages but only 4 others got off on terminating at airport on arrival.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
 

radamfi

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Manchester Airport was the third busiest airport in the UK but was overtaken by Stansted a few years ago.
 

WatcherZero

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Reportedly its taken the bronze back from Stansted this year, we will see when full year figures are out.

Stansted 12 month moving average 18.3m
Manchester 12 month moving average 18.7m
 

Nym

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actually it would be nice if the MIA-Yorkshire TPE services didn't stop for so long in Picadilly

That will come with the cord, they have such long layovers because of the reversals. Running round Manchester will actually be about the same if not quicker than reversing and going via Guide Bridge, especially if fast through roads are put back in at Stalybridge and Ashton U Lyne so TPE can go on one pair of tracks and stick to it all the way to Stalybridge E Jcns
 

Bellwater

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I personally would like to see TPE fragmented into 38 pieces, and FirstGroup only allowed to operate a small section between Haymarket and Edinburgh. Personal opinion, of course ;)

Was going to say Liverpool-Picc or Leeds-Huddersfield but they can't get either of them right...
 

pemma

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I had made a posting an another thread some months ago that First TPE had written to me stating that they were adamant that they were not going to change the existing route of the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport services, even though it meant reversal at Manchester Piccadilly remaining.

They cannot make the decision to change the route as it's part of the franchise agreement. They can apply to change the route/services if they feel trains would be better utilised differently but there's no guarantee it will be approved.
 

merlodlliw

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Manchester Airport was the third busiest airport in the UK but was overtaken by Stansted a few years ago.

I put the third busiest up, according to latest data, it will be the third busiest uk airport in 2011, back where it belongs.

Out of interest when I was just turned 17 I was asked to take a neighbours daughter to Manchester Airport by car, this is late 50s, then it was still Nissan huts & called Ringway Aerodrome,half of it military, how times change.
The flight was to Austria by Dakota.


Bob
 

Nym

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And they keep putting more and more traffic into T1 and 3, rather than where there is a lot of spare capacity in T2, although that will need expansion soon, will be easy enough though, but T2 is better for longer layovers, not what it's currently used for with short layover flights. T3 was ment for short layovers.
 

WestCoast

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And they keep putting more and more traffic into T1 and 3, rather than where there is a lot of spare capacity in T2, although that will need expansion soon, will be easy enough though, but T2 is better for longer layovers, not what it's currently used for with short layover flights. T3 was ment for short layovers.

It's the alliances now which seem to play a major role. Although, the middle-eastern carriers with no alliance commitments should be over in T2 if you ask me.

In any case, the fast direct link to the City Centre is an appealing feature and a competitive advantage for the airport. The same cannot be said for other airports in the surrounding regions (e.g. Liverpool and Leeds/Bradford).

The tram will benefit local residents and workers of the South Manchester area who wish to access the airport, however I cannot see it being that competitive against the fast rail link. Neither would I say that it is designed to be an alternative.
 

12CSVT

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Would there be a case for diverting one of the Euston - Manchester services per hour into Airport instead of Piccadilly ? (ie xx40 from Euston, xx55 from Piccadilly which run via Crewe)

As things stand Manchester Airport is very well served for destinations north of Manchester but has few services running south.
 

Nym

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May well be a fantastic case for it, but you can't fit a 390 into the platforms at Manchester Airport...

You could until they were lengthened...
 

WestCoast

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Just seen this amusing thread from when Stansted overtook Manchester:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=318017

I wonder if 'Monkey' is still following CAA stats!

I loathe that section of the SSC forum. Some members on there just have a completly tiresome agenda to constantly bash certain cities, namely Manchester. All from the oh-so-perfect capital. I don't have any strong feelings about Manchester, but that's just childish.

Manchester Airport should be considered as far more important than Stansted in any case. In a slightly simplistic manner, Stansted only really exists in its current form because budget airlines find it extremely difficult to operate at Heathrow. There's a local market, but it's not on the same scale as Manchester is to northern England and even Scotland. That wasn't Stansted's envisaged purpose, however that's how it has turned out. Indeed, BAA tried every tactic to encourage airlines over to Stansted, but it didn't work. If the budget airlines hadn't of appeared, it would have probably become an infrastructure white elephant.

Anyway, that's the background info as to why transport links should be maintained and improved with Manchester Airport. I especially like the idea of extending the Derby to Crewe service to the Airport, creating a direct Man. Airport - Crewe - Stoke - Derby link. However, the current service is stretched as it is, with insufficient rolling stock to meet current and future demand.
 
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pemma

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Would there be a case for diverting one of the Euston - Manchester services per hour into Airport instead of Piccadilly ? (ie xx40 from Euston, xx55 from Piccadilly which run via Crewe)

As things stand Manchester Airport is very well served for destinations north of Manchester but has few services running south.

May well be a fantastic case for it, but you can't fit a 390 into the platforms at Manchester Airport...

You could until they were lengthened...

Add a Pantograph car to the 221s and replace both the Blackpool-Manchester Airport workings and Manchester-Crewe-London workings with a Blackpool-Manchester Airport-London service.

To get round the issue of less capacity:
* Make the Crewe call on Blackpool-Airport-London set down only southbound and pick up only northbound. Use 11 car Pendolinos on Glasgow-London and add a full Crewe call, to plug that gap.
* Use 11 car Pendolinos on Manchester-Stoke-London services. A large number of passengers use Stockport to change to and from London trains so a service via the Airport should be the quieter of the three.
 

cle

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There's not demand for a London - Man Airport service at all.

What there is, is demand from the Midlands to some extent, and places like Stafford and Crewe.

I would suggest diverting a Birmingham - Manchester via there. A Voyager would fit too.

The Derby service is also a good shout - connecting Stoke too. The LM 350 from Euston might also be good for local journeys and more connections at Crewe.

In terms of the local stations - simple - as done a bit already today, add random stops to most services to even pathing but provide them all with a few trains per hour. So all Airport trains would stop once at least between Picc and the Airport - that's how the Heathrow Express is going to evolve with Crossrail too.

Local journeys not so important and should be left to buses. More emphasis on East Didsbury and Heald Green stops, I would have thought.
 
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