Manchester Airport Express???

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In a slightly simplistic manner, Stansted only really exists in its current form because budget airlines find it extremely difficult to operate at Heathrow. There's a local market, but it's not on the same scale as Manchester is to northern England and even Scotland. That wasn't Stansted's envisaged purpose, however that's how it has turned out. Indeed, BAA tried every tactic to encourage airlines over to Stansted, but it didn't work. If the budget airlines hadn't of appeared, it would have probably become an infrastructure white elephant. Anyway, that's the background info as to why transport links should be maintained and improved with Manchester Airport....... However, the current service is stretched as it is, with insufficient rolling stock to meet current and future demand.

Yet there are regular ad nauseum demands for a reduction of Manchester Airport rail services and for the stock thus released to be used elsewhere on the rail network of the North of England. Manchester Airport is a two runway airport with three terminals and has a reasonably good rail service. Unlike many other British airports, the BAA have no input whatsoever there as it run by a consortium of the ten Local Authority bodies that are the constituent parts of Greater Manchester, under their own umbrella organisation.

There are often comments on this forum concerning the "poor neighbour" syndrome of Northern England when compared to London and the South-East, in terms of rail and other facilities available, yet I find it rather strange when people from Northern England try to actually suggest a reduction in one of the success stories of the region.

 

[button_boxer]

The Derby service is also a good shout - connecting Stoke too.

If it would mean Derby to Crewe getting more than a single-car 153 then I'm all for it...

 

[cle]

Completely - 153s are an embarrassment. It should return to Nottingham too!

 

[tbtc]

Yet there are regular ad nauseum demands for a reduction of Manchester Airport rail services and for the stock thus released to be used elsewhere on the rail network of the North of England. Manchester Airport is a two runway airport with three terminals and has a reasonably good rail service. Unlike many other British airports, the BAA have no input whatsoever there as it run by a consortium of the ten Local Authority bodies that are the constituent parts of Greater Manchester, under their own umbrella organisation.

There are often comments on this forum concerning the "poor neighbour" syndrome of Northern England when compared to London and the South-East, in terms of rail and other facilities available, yet I find it rather strange when people from Northern England try to actually suggest a reduction in one of the success stories of the region.

Paul, if you honestly think that Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly requires nine trains an hour (twenty-something coaches an hour, presumably up to thirty-something coaches an hour in the Peaks, when the TPE services through Preston are doubled up), whilst the rest of Northern England gets a poorer service (and more Pacers) then fair enough.

Personally I'd rather spread resources around to meet demand.

 

[gordonthemoron]

It would also be good to have Liverpool-Nottingham-Norwich changed to Manchester Airport-Nottingham-Norwich

 

[pemma]

It would also be good to have Liverpool-Nottingham-Norwich changed to Manchester Airport-Nottingham-Norwich

Why not have two services; one as a Manchester-Manchester Airport-Derby-Nottingham-Norwich service, also a Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield-Doncaster service? The former would provide a faster route for Manchester to the East Midlands while the latter could be EMU without too much further electrification work.

 

[tbtc]

Why not have two services; one as a Manchester-Manchester Airport-Derby-Nottingham-Norwich service, also a Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield-Doncaster service? The former would provide a faster route for Manchester to the East Midlands while the latter could be EMU without too much further electrification work.

I've wondered in the past whether running via Macclesfield/ Stoke/ Uttoxeter might be a better way of going from Greater Manchester to the East Midlands.

At the moment the "Norwich" service suffers from the long reversal at Sheffield and the fact that it only serves one of the three main places in the East Midlands (Nottingham, but not Derby or Leicester).

Hypothetically, in a utopian all-electrified world I'd wonder about extending some of the (current) Northern Stoke services to Derby and Nottingham, but I can't see any DMUs being found for such a service any time soon.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I have done Nottingham-Manchester via Stoke before, but the connection wasn't brilliant

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Paul, if you honestly think that Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly requires nine trains an hour (twenty-something coaches an hour, presumably up to thirty-something coaches an hour in the Peaks, when the TPE services through Preston are doubled up), whilst the rest of Northern England gets a poorer service (and more Pacers) then fair enough.....Personally I'd rather spread resources around to meet demand.

It is you, not I, who are bringing the final short leg of any journey from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport into the equation. It is obvious that the more destinations having services to Manchester Airport, the greater the number of journeys from Manchester Piccadilly to there will be, as all services currently take this particular route to access the airport, but seriously, look at all the destinations where airport services reach over such a very wide geographical area from services starting from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Windermere, Barrow in Furness, Blackpool, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Scarborough and Cleethorpes on First TPE services and services starting from Manchester,Southport and Liverpool run by Northern Rail. Is it any wonder there are so many services per hour making this final very short part of the journey. It is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a "short-hop" rail service in its own right.

I am not making any case with regard to frequencies over the Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport short line section, but just explaining the realities of the current service provision to the airport from timetabled journeys. I am sure that those in power to make the decisions of what trains and from where eventually arrive at Manchester Airport know of the implications of the number of services having to make this final short journey leg and have planned for path capacity to be there to allow such train movements.

 

[pemma]

I think the problem we have with Manchester Airport rail services is no-one knows enough information about usage and that information would need to be obtained and evaluated before accurate conclusions could be drawn.

For instance, would Leeds University lose international students from the likes of China if Leeds didn't have direct Airport links? May they find Liverpool or Preston more attractive alternatives if they retain direct links?

Would Manchester Airport lose passengers to other airports if it had less direct links?

Would more Windermere services and less Barrow services be more beneficial for tourists?

Or would a Hope Valley stopper extended to the Airport be more beneficial than the Cleethorpes service extending there, given that the smaller stops can be popular in the Peak District with tourists?

There's so many things to consider.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I think the problem we have with Manchester Airport rail services is no-one knows enough information about usage and that information would need to be obtained and evaluated before accurate conclusions could be drawn.

For instance, would Leeds University lose international students from the likes of China if Leeds didn't have direct Airport links? May they find Liverpool or Preston more attractive alternatives if they retain direct links?

Would Manchester Airport lose passengers to other airports if it had less direct links?

Would more Windermere services and less Barrow services be more beneficial for tourists?

Or would a Hope Valley stopper extended to the Airport be more beneficial than the Cleethorpes service extending there, given that the smaller stops can be popular in the Peak District with tourists?

There's so many things to consider.

JCollins..you trying to finish us Guards off with even more stops on a SHF-MAN stopper too many as there is

 

[pemma]

JCollins..you trying to finish us Guards off with even more stops on a SHF-MAN stopper too many as there is

There could always be a crew change at Piccadilly.

 

[Invincibles]

With regard to China not one of the students we sent from my former job to the UK considered the access to an airport by train in their decision. Indeed I am not even sure any of them looked to see if there was an airport at all.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think the problem we have with Manchester Airport rail services is no-one knows enough information about usage and that information would need to be obtained and evaluated before accurate conclusions could be drawn.

Would a Hope Valley stopper extended to the Airport be more beneficial than the Cleethorpes service extending there, given that the smaller stops can be popular in the Peak District with tourists? There's so many things to consider.

Your first paragraph correctly states the position that exists. It is obvious if all the airport-bound services pass through Manchester Piccadilly station, either on the through lines or by reversal there, there will be a large number of services using the Styal line to the airport. Thank you for making your posting of clarification of the current situation.

With regard to your second paragraph, what type of unit and number of coaches do you suggest to run a Hope Valley stopping train to Manchester Airport. Was there ever any discussions on the franchise provision of the Cleethorpes service regarding making it a Doncaster to Manchester Airport service or does the franchise provision stipulate that Cleethorpes must be the eastern terminal station on this route?

 

[MCR247]

Why would there be demand from London to Manchester Airport?

 

[pemma]

With regard to your second paragraph, what type of unit and number of coaches do you suggest to run a Hope Valley stopping train to Manchester Airport.

At the moment no unit. If studies in to Airport services shows demand for one then a Sprinter unless the less is electrified.

Was there ever any discussions on the franchise provision of the Cleethorpes service regarding making it a Doncaster to Manchester Airport service or does the franchise provision stipulate that Cleethorpes must be the eastern terminal station on this route?

At present the franchise requirement is for a Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes service. There were suggestions made by Network Rail in the draft electrification RUS that Hazel Grove-Doncaster could be electrified and then Manchester Airport to Doncaster would be operated by a EMU and Doncaster to Cleethorpes by a DMU.