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Manchester Airport's 10 year plan announced for £1 billion improvements

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Xenophon PCDGS

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Citing the need to become an integral part of the Northern Powerhouse and works on its terminal 2 amongst other matters. this 10 year plan certainly seems ambitious.

Anyone with more detailed knowledge on here with any thoughts on this aspiration?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-32963790

A £1bn programme to "transform" Manchester Airport has been announced.
The 10-year plan will include the expansion of Terminal 2, self-service check-in facilities and a larger security hall.
Facilities are planned to allow passengers to go through the United States' immigration process before they board transatlantic flights.
Manchester Airports Group (MAG) said the investment will mean it "continues to thrive as a national asset".
The work will also include improvements to Terminal 3 as well as create new food and retail outlets.....
 
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radamfi

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I like the US-immigration pre-clearance plan. Why don't they offer it at Heathrow or Gatwick? You normally have to go via Dublin or Shannon if you want that.
 
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flymo

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Would transatlantic clearance mean that those passengers destined for the US of A be kept apart from others.?? Not sure it would be physically possible at LHR or LGW without using a dedicated terminal. I used the zoo that is LHR T5 last Friday afternoon and can't imagine them wanting to lose the USA passengers there.
 

Puffing Devil

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Would transatlantic clearance mean that those passengers destined for the US of A be kept apart from others.?? Not sure it would be physically possible at LHR or LGW without using a dedicated terminal. I used the zoo that is LHR T5 last Friday afternoon and can't imagine them wanting to lose the USA passengers there.

For BA it may be possible by placing all the USA flights out of the T5C satellite.
 

me123

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Would transatlantic clearance mean that those passengers destined for the US of A be kept apart from others.?? Not sure it would be physically possible at LHR or LGW without using a dedicated terminal. I used the zoo that is LHR T5 last Friday afternoon and can't imagine them wanting to lose the USA passengers there.

I'm basing this from the experience in Dublin airport. With US Preclearence, passengers pass through the same security channels as other passengers and mingle in the same departure lounge. A couple of hours before the flight is due to depart, passengers are called to US Customs precleareance and go through the process there. They are then in a "protected" area accessible only to precleared passengers and board their flights from there.

Dublin Terminal 2 has been specifically designed to facilitate this, and as such the US preclearence gates (401-6) allow passengers to board aircraft at what are otherwise "normal" stands.

It is a fantastic system, and one that I would highly recommend having used it on a couple of occasions. It's particularly good for transit passengers, who can make use of what would be otherwise wasted time, and at the other end you can walk straight onto the subway at JFK after a reasonably long flight.

It works well in Dublin, a smaller airport where you've got short queues and it offers a significant advantage to waiting in the long immigration lines in, for example, JFK Terminal 4.

Heathrow would pose a particular challenge. You've got four terminals that handle flights to the US, and if you were to set up a preclearence at LHR you'd need to either
  1. pick one terminal (which would unfairly disadvantage the airlines at other terminals)
  2. Set up multiple pre-clearence facilities, which would require significant funding from the US government
  3. Consolidate all operations into one new US terminal, which would disadvantage connectivity
And, with all this, the sheer volume of transatlantic traffic passing through LHR every day would make the lines there very long and probably offer you negligible benefits overall.

I think a good option for LHR would be a potential Terminal 5D, built to handle BA and American Airlines transatlantic flights.

Manchester would be an ideal location for pre-clearance. Enough flights to make it viable, not too many so that it becomes congested. Plenty of scope to grow flights from the airport. Enough connections to help boost traffic. I'm all for Manchester preclearence.

But it's worth remembering that, whilst Manchester airport can build the preclearence facilities, it's up to the US government to fund and staff the facility, which requires the US government to firstly allow creation of the facilities in the UK (which probably won't be too much of a problem) before deciding if the proposed facility in Manchester is viable.
 
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PrinceBishop

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But it's worth remembering that, whilst Manchester airport can build the preclearence facilities, it's up to the US government to fund and staff the facility, which requires the US government to firstly allow creation of the facilities in the UK (which probably won't be too much of a problem) before deciding if the proposed facility in Manchester is viable.

I believe the US Dept. of Homeland Security announced earlier this week/last week that they had shortlisted Manchester for pre-clearance, along with nine other airports, including Heathrow. Though not officially confirmed, for the US to announce this just before Manchester Airport made its own announcement would suggest to me that discussions have been on going behind the scenes for some time and that the US authorities are provisionally happy for it to go ahead.
 

edwin_m

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I imagine if the terminal is being re-developed, providing facilities for pre-clearance wouldn't be too difficult and if the US didn't agree it the facilities would find some other use. So for the airport operator it's only a fairly small gamble.
 

pemma

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Sounds like parking is a problem at the Airport for one reason or another:

MEN said:
Residents' anger as Manchester Airport holidaymakers leave cars outside their homes for up to two weeks

Wythenshawe residents claim workers and car parking firms also are parking on side streets to avoid having to pay

Holidaymakers are leaving their cars on side streets near Manchester Airport while they jet off abroad for up to two weeks - making the lives of residents a misery.

The problem is made worse by people working at the airport also leaving their vehicles outside houses. Residents say drivers even include those from official parking firms.

People living in the area around Hilary Road and Kingsgate Road have been battling for years to get a permit system.

They claim it has slowed down emergency service vehicles - and one occasion forced refuse collectors to LIFT a car out of their way.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...nger-manchester-airport-holidaymakers-9464944
 

radamfi

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It is surprising how little of Greater Manchester is covered by residents parking zones. Generally outside town centres you can park almost anywhere for free, even on a lot of main roads. In the south, it is normal for a zone about 10 minutes walk from the town centre or station to have a permit scheme or yellow lines. You can't really park for free within walking distance from Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted. The best you can do is park near a bus route to the airport.
 

WestCoast

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Regarding parking, it's probably some of the cheapest in the country if you pre-book. Manchester Airport offers about 8 car parks of their own, both on-site and off-site. This is alongside numerous off-site private operators offering parking through broker websites. I can't comment on the street parking.

I'm also glad to see this investment in the facilities. Terminal 3 used to be a lovely little facility for British Airways and domestic services (apart from the long trek from the station), it's turned into a bit of a zoo of late - too small to cope with BA, Flybe, KLM, Air France etc and Ryanair!
 

pemma

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Regarding parking, it's probably some of the cheapest in the country if you pre-book.

Looking at pick-up parking arrangements:

  • Manchester Airport charges you £3 for under 30 minutes. They don't give the > 30 minutes rate on their site but I think it's around £5.80 for up to 1 hour.
  • Heathow charges £3.50 for under 30 minutes or £6.50 for up to 1 hour.
  • Liverpool charges £2 for up to 20 minutes and £4 for up to 40 minutes
  • Gatwick allows you to park (not directly outside arrivals) for free for up to 2 hours
  • Leeds Bradford allows you to park (not directly outside arrivals) for free for up to 1 hour.
  • Birmingham charges £4 for 1 hour

For 4 full days parking (pre-booked) at a randomly selected terminal:

  • Manchester: £43.99
  • Heathow: £59.90
  • Liverpool: £34.99
  • Gatwick: £51.00
  • Leeds Bradford: £35.95
  • Birmingham: £44.99

So Manchester only really looks cheap in comparison to Heathrow, which you'd expect anyway.
 
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WestCoast

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Pick-up and on-site, sure not that cheap. However, I have always thought that there's loads of budget off-site parking compared to other airports. For holidaymakers, I'd maintain it is pretty cheap to park there if you don't mind taking a transfer bus.

http://www.skyparksecure.com/bookin...a2d5766ccad953579339b5109d46197c1f828fec56081

You can get 5th - 12th July (so a week) in a ParkMark secured car park a mile away for £28.00 including transfers. The cheapest at Gatwick through that link is £63.99 for a Parkmark accredited car park, or £59.95 for the cheapest accredited provider at Heathrow.

EDIT - sorry the link will only direct to one result.
 
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pemma

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I'd maintain it is pretty cheap to park there if you don't mind taking a transfer bus.

Only compared to London area airports or even when compared to Birmingham, Liverpool and Leeds-Bradford? You previously said 'cheapest in the country.'
 

radamfi

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Gatwick allows you to park (not directly outside arrivals) for free for up to 2 hours

This is a recent innovation where people can park in a designated part of the long stay car park for up to two hours to avoid the high cost short stay parking at the terminals. But you do need to get a transfer bus. Stansted has a similar system using its Mid Stay car park for up to one hour and Luton for up to 30 minutes. Luton charges for DROP OFF, unless you use this service.
 
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pemma

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This is a recent innovation where people can park in a designated part of the long stay car park for up to two hours to avoid the high cost short stay parking at the terminals. But you do need to get a transfer bus.

And that could be a solution for Manchester to stop some of the short term street parking in Wythenshawe.
 

WestCoast

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Only compared to London area airports or even when compared to Birmingham, Liverpool and Leeds-Bradford? You previously said 'cheapest in the country.'

I said "some of the cheapest in country", which it definetly is. Liverpool and Leeds Bradford are not much cheaper, if at all. Considering Manchester Airport dwarfs those airports in terms of travel possibilities and daily departures, it's all the more impressive. However, if people can park for free they will.

From a selfish point of view, I am actually in favour of large drop-off fees and increasing parking charges, if they are used to improve the airport facilities. I almost exclusively use public transport to get to airports and would rather airports invested in making my journey easier.
 

pemma

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I almost exclusively use public transport to get to airports and would rather airports invested in making my journey easier....

From a selfish point of view, I am actually in favour of large drop-off fees and increasing parking charges

As the plane flies I live 3 miles from the end of Runway 2 at Manchester Airport and I can't get a direct public transport to the Airport!

The most direct option available which involves a change and doesn't allow me to get to the Airport before 08:10 or leave the Airport after 17:30. Given the volume of pre-10am departures from Manchester Airport and the number of post 16:30 arrivals that's a pathetic service.

Unless the Airport invests more in local public transport links I personally think their expansion plans should be blocked.
 
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radamfi

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Gatwick has buses from most neighbouring areas such as most parts of Crawley, Horley, Redhill and Horsham running from around 0300 or 0400 in the morning, seven days a week with two routes between areas of Crawley to Gatwick running every 30 minutes throughout the night. Services used to start around 0500 but that was too late for airport staff. Manchester Airport should really have early morning buses from Knutsford, Wilmslow, Altrincham and Stockport starting at 0400 as a minimum.
 

Bald Rick

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As the plane flies I live 3 miles from the end of Runway 2 at Manchester Airport and I can't get a direct public transport to the Airport!

The most direct option available which involves a change and doesn't allow me to get to the Airport before 08:10 or leave the Airport after 17:30. Given the volume of pre-10am departures from Manchester Airport and the number of post 16:30 arrivals that's a pathetic service.

Unless the Airport invests more in local public transport links I personally think their expansion plans should be blocked.

Taxi?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Gatwick has buses from most neighbouring areas such as most parts of Crawley, Horley, Redhill and Horsham running from around 0300 or 0400 in the morning, seven days a week with two routes between areas of Crawley to Gatwick running every 30 minutes throughout the night. Services used to start around 0500 but that was too late for airport staff. Manchester Airport should really have early morning buses from Knutsford, Wilmslow, Altrincham and Stockport starting at 0400 as a minimum.

Pretty sure Gatwick pays for those early morning / late night services.
 

pemma

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No chance if I'm travelling by myself. It's £25 each way - that's almost double the cheapest Advance rail fares from Edinburgh to Manchester Airport.

Pretty sure Gatwick pays for those early morning / late night services.

Maybe the local council did a good job when the terms of the planning permission for an expansion was agreed? If so then well done to them, the Airport should benefit the people who live near it not just disadvantage the people who live near it.
 

Bald Rick

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No chance if I'm travelling by myself. It's £25 each way - that's almost double the cheapest Advance rail fares from Edinburgh to Manchester Airport.

£25 for a 3 mile trip!? Or is it a rather roundabout way ?

I'm 12 miles in a straight line from Luton, and a taxi there for me is £28.
 

radamfi

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£25 for a 3 mile trip!? Or is it a rather roundabout way ?

Just measured it in Google Maps. It is almost exactly 3 miles from the western end of the runway to Knutsford town centre. By road, the shortest route from the terminals to Knutsford town centre is about 10 miles, with the more sensible route via the A556 and M56 is about 11 miles.
 

pemma

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£25 for a 3 mile trip!? Or is it a rather roundabout way ?

I'm 12 miles in a straight line from Luton, and a taxi there for me is £28.

I gave roughly the straight line distance from the end of the runway to my house. I don't think it's permissible for taxis to drive across fields and up the runway to get to the Airport!

Taxi companies who offer Airport transfers seem to charge a lot more for journeys which cross the Greater Manchester boundary.

Just measured it in Google Maps. It is almost exactly 3 miles from the western end of the runway to Knutsford town centre. By road, the shortest route from the terminals to Knutsford town centre is about 10 miles, with the more sensible route via the A556 and M56 is about 11 miles.

I didn't measure it exactly but if it's exactly 3 miles to Knutsford town centre it'll be a bit less than that to my house. Someone offered to give me a lift the last time I went to the Airport which was at rush hour time so the most sensible route was via Mobberley and Morley Green.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Unless the Airport invests more in local public transport links I personally think their expansion plans should be blocked.

I can see the legal teams who act for the airport that still is owned by the ten constituent council bodies that make up what is referred to as "Greater Manchester"making strenuous attempts to put forward the benefits of the expansion plans of the airport in terms of employment opportunities, future international trade links (noting the Chinese involvement in the recently announced large project), etc and noting not only the existing heavy rail and Manchester Metrolink light rail links coupled to the existing bus and coach serve provision in this TfGM area bus and coach station interchange then of the vast numbers of car parking spaces on both multi-story and surface car parks, to respond to the charge of not enough public transport links.

Is it envisaged that a doubling in size of the existing bus and coach station will be required to handle such extra provision of this type. The area external to Greater Manchester is already served by the High Peak service 199 as far as Buxton and the service 200 to Wilmslow railway station (which calls at the National Trust property of Quarry Bank Mill)?

There is already a "mothballed" heavy-rail fourth platform at Manchester Airport railway station.
 
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pemma

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I can see the legal teams who act for the airport that still is owned by the ten constituent council bodies that make up what is referred to as "Greater Manchester"making strenuous attempts to put forward the benefits of the expansion plans of the airport in terms of employment opportunities, future international trade links (noting the Chinese involvement in the recently announced large project, etc and noting not only the existing heavy rail and Manchester Metrolink light rail links coupled to the existing bus and coach serve provision in this TfGM area bus and coach station interchange then of the vast numbers of car parking spaces on both multi-story and surface car parks, to respond to the charge of not enough public transport links.

Is it envisaged that a doubling in size of the existing bus and coach station will be required to handle such extra provision of this type. The area external to Greater Manchester is already served by the High Peak service 199 as far as Buxton and the service 200 to Wilmslow railway station (which calls at the National Trust property of Quarry Bank Mill)?

Manchester Airport usually get's its own way for proposed developments provided they are within the Greater Manchester boundary but plans for building new car parks outside the GM boundary do not always go in the Airport's favour. One in 2007 for 1,500 parking spaces was rejected by Macclesfield Borough Council, the Airport appealed to the government who ruled in favour in the council.

I don't think there's anything new in the Airport's public transport plan other than they don't want one proposed development to go ahead. An extension of the Metrolink line to Airport City was expected anyway.

It's interesting the 200 service you refer to is sponsored by Cheshire East council, while the 199 service is is sponsored by Derbyshire County Council without any support from the Airport. While the 200 service is provided 7 days a week the hours of operation are very limited compared to the hours the Airport operates. If the Airport wants to support public transport then why isn't it providing support for public transport routes which go outside Greater Manchester? Private companies like Waters, McCanns and AstraZeneca are happy to provide funding so that buses serve their premises. Yet from what I heard if an operator asks the Airport about running a bus route there commercially the Airport doesn't just say 'yes' and allocates a stand for them to use.
 

radamfi

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Gatwick bus routes have little problem crossing the boundary between West Sussex and Surrey as funding comes from the airport, although most services are commercial. It also helps that there is a single dominant operator which has had a long term relationship with the airport. They have even started overnight buses from the south coast.

Maybe cross boundary routes for Manchester have an issue because it is mostly owned by the authorities in GM, so buses wholly within GM get priority.
 
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catfordbags

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Is there a proposed route for the western link ? Looking at the map, if the route pretty much stayed within the boundary of the airport it could end up within 1km of the mid cheshire line near Mobberley station.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Gatwick has buses from most neighbouring areas such as most parts of Crawley, Horley, Redhill and Horsham running from around 0300 or 0400 in the morning, seven days a week with two routes between areas of Crawley to Gatwick running every 30 minutes throughout the night. Services used to start around 0500 but that was too late for airport staff. Manchester Airport should really have early morning buses from Knutsford, Wilmslow, Altrincham and Stockport starting at 0400 as a minimum.

I will address the point that you make with regard to Stockport, if I may. The High Peak service 199 from Buxton calls at Stockport bus station then runs non-stop via the motorway network from there direct to the Manchester Airport interchange.
Stockport bus station dep. 0425....Manchester Airport arr. 0440
Stockport bus station dep. 0500....Manchester Airport arr. 0515

Are those two buses from Stockport not adequate?
 
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