Manchester Airport's 10 year plan announced for £1 billion improvements

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Paul Sidorczuk, 2 Jun 2015.

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  1. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Citing the need to become an integral part of the Northern Powerhouse and works on its terminal 2 amongst other matters. this 10 year plan certainly seems ambitious.

    Anyone with more detailed knowledge on here with any thoughts on this aspiration?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-32963790

     
    Last edited by a moderator: 2 Jun 2015
  2. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    I like the US-immigration pre-clearance plan. Why don't they offer it at Heathrow or Gatwick? You normally have to go via Dublin or Shannon if you want that.
     
    Last edited: 2 Jun 2015
  3. flymo

    flymo Established Member

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    Would transatlantic clearance mean that those passengers destined for the US of A be kept apart from others.?? Not sure it would be physically possible at LHR or LGW without using a dedicated terminal. I used the zoo that is LHR T5 last Friday afternoon and can't imagine them wanting to lose the USA passengers there.
     
  4. gordonthemoron

    gordonthemoron Established Member

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    I'd certainly be interested in that, have been considering using Dublin
     
  5. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Member

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    For BA it may be possible by placing all the USA flights out of the T5C satellite.
     
  6. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Last edited: 4 Jun 2015
  7. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    I'm basing this from the experience in Dublin airport. With US Preclearence, passengers pass through the same security channels as other passengers and mingle in the same departure lounge. A couple of hours before the flight is due to depart, passengers are called to US Customs precleareance and go through the process there. They are then in a "protected" area accessible only to precleared passengers and board their flights from there.

    Dublin Terminal 2 has been specifically designed to facilitate this, and as such the US preclearence gates (401-6) allow passengers to board aircraft at what are otherwise "normal" stands.

    It is a fantastic system, and one that I would highly recommend having used it on a couple of occasions. It's particularly good for transit passengers, who can make use of what would be otherwise wasted time, and at the other end you can walk straight onto the subway at JFK after a reasonably long flight.

    It works well in Dublin, a smaller airport where you've got short queues and it offers a significant advantage to waiting in the long immigration lines in, for example, JFK Terminal 4.

    Heathrow would pose a particular challenge. You've got four terminals that handle flights to the US, and if you were to set up a preclearence at LHR you'd need to either
    1. pick one terminal (which would unfairly disadvantage the airlines at other terminals)
    2. Set up multiple pre-clearence facilities, which would require significant funding from the US government
    3. Consolidate all operations into one new US terminal, which would disadvantage connectivity
    And, with all this, the sheer volume of transatlantic traffic passing through LHR every day would make the lines there very long and probably offer you negligible benefits overall.

    I think a good option for LHR would be a potential Terminal 5D, built to handle BA and American Airlines transatlantic flights.

    Manchester would be an ideal location for pre-clearance. Enough flights to make it viable, not too many so that it becomes congested. Plenty of scope to grow flights from the airport. Enough connections to help boost traffic. I'm all for Manchester preclearence.

    But it's worth remembering that, whilst Manchester airport can build the preclearence facilities, it's up to the US government to fund and staff the facility, which requires the US government to firstly allow creation of the facilities in the UK (which probably won't be too much of a problem) before deciding if the proposed facility in Manchester is viable.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jun 2015
  8. PrinceBishop

    PrinceBishop Member

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    I believe the US Dept. of Homeland Security announced earlier this week/last week that they had shortlisted Manchester for pre-clearance, along with nine other airports, including Heathrow. Though not officially confirmed, for the US to announce this just before Manchester Airport made its own announcement would suggest to me that discussions have been on going behind the scenes for some time and that the US authorities are provisionally happy for it to go ahead.
     
  9. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    I imagine if the terminal is being re-developed, providing facilities for pre-clearance wouldn't be too difficult and if the US didn't agree it the facilities would find some other use. So for the airport operator it's only a fairly small gamble.
     
  10. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Sounds like parking is a problem at the Airport for one reason or another:

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...nger-manchester-airport-holidaymakers-9464944
     
  11. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    It is surprising how little of Greater Manchester is covered by residents parking zones. Generally outside town centres you can park almost anywhere for free, even on a lot of main roads. In the south, it is normal for a zone about 10 minutes walk from the town centre or station to have a permit scheme or yellow lines. You can't really park for free within walking distance from Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted. The best you can do is park near a bus route to the airport.
     
  12. WestCoast

    WestCoast Established Member

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    Regarding parking, it's probably some of the cheapest in the country if you pre-book. Manchester Airport offers about 8 car parks of their own, both on-site and off-site. This is alongside numerous off-site private operators offering parking through broker websites. I can't comment on the street parking.

    I'm also glad to see this investment in the facilities. Terminal 3 used to be a lovely little facility for British Airways and domestic services (apart from the long trek from the station), it's turned into a bit of a zoo of late - too small to cope with BA, Flybe, KLM, Air France etc and Ryanair!
     
  13. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Looking at pick-up parking arrangements:

    • Manchester Airport charges you £3 for under 30 minutes. They don't give the > 30 minutes rate on their site but I think it's around £5.80 for up to 1 hour.
    • Heathow charges £3.50 for under 30 minutes or £6.50 for up to 1 hour.
    • Liverpool charges £2 for up to 20 minutes and £4 for up to 40 minutes
    • Gatwick allows you to park (not directly outside arrivals) for free for up to 2 hours
    • Leeds Bradford allows you to park (not directly outside arrivals) for free for up to 1 hour.
    • Birmingham charges £4 for 1 hour

    For 4 full days parking (pre-booked) at a randomly selected terminal:

    • Manchester: £43.99
    • Heathow: £59.90
    • Liverpool: £34.99
    • Gatwick: £51.00
    • Leeds Bradford: £35.95
    • Birmingham: £44.99

    So Manchester only really looks cheap in comparison to Heathrow, which you'd expect anyway.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jun 2015
  14. WestCoast

    WestCoast Established Member

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    Pick-up and on-site, sure not that cheap. However, I have always thought that there's loads of budget off-site parking compared to other airports. For holidaymakers, I'd maintain it is pretty cheap to park there if you don't mind taking a transfer bus.

    http://www.skyparksecure.com/bookin...a2d5766ccad953579339b5109d46197c1f828fec56081

    You can get 5th - 12th July (so a week) in a ParkMark secured car park a mile away for £28.00 including transfers. The cheapest at Gatwick through that link is £63.99 for a Parkmark accredited car park, or £59.95 for the cheapest accredited provider at Heathrow.

    EDIT - sorry the link will only direct to one result.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jun 2015
  15. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Only compared to London area airports or even when compared to Birmingham, Liverpool and Leeds-Bradford? You previously said 'cheapest in the country.'
     
  16. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    This is a recent innovation where people can park in a designated part of the long stay car park for up to two hours to avoid the high cost short stay parking at the terminals. But you do need to get a transfer bus. Stansted has a similar system using its Mid Stay car park for up to one hour and Luton for up to 30 minutes. Luton charges for DROP OFF, unless you use this service.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jun 2015
  17. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    And that could be a solution for Manchester to stop some of the short term street parking in Wythenshawe.
     
  18. WestCoast

    WestCoast Established Member

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    I said "some of the cheapest in country", which it definetly is. Liverpool and Leeds Bradford are not much cheaper, if at all. Considering Manchester Airport dwarfs those airports in terms of travel possibilities and daily departures, it's all the more impressive. However, if people can park for free they will.

    From a selfish point of view, I am actually in favour of large drop-off fees and increasing parking charges, if they are used to improve the airport facilities. I almost exclusively use public transport to get to airports and would rather airports invested in making my journey easier.
     
  19. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    As the plane flies I live 3 miles from the end of Runway 2 at Manchester Airport and I can't get a direct public transport to the Airport!

    The most direct option available which involves a change and doesn't allow me to get to the Airport before 08:10 or leave the Airport after 17:30. Given the volume of pre-10am departures from Manchester Airport and the number of post 16:30 arrivals that's a pathetic service.

    Unless the Airport invests more in local public transport links I personally think their expansion plans should be blocked.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jun 2015
  20. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Gatwick has buses from most neighbouring areas such as most parts of Crawley, Horley, Redhill and Horsham running from around 0300 or 0400 in the morning, seven days a week with two routes between areas of Crawley to Gatwick running every 30 minutes throughout the night. Services used to start around 0500 but that was too late for airport staff. Manchester Airport should really have early morning buses from Knutsford, Wilmslow, Altrincham and Stockport starting at 0400 as a minimum.
     
  21. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Taxi?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Pretty sure Gatwick pays for those early morning / late night services.
     
  22. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    No chance if I'm travelling by myself. It's £25 each way - that's almost double the cheapest Advance rail fares from Edinburgh to Manchester Airport.

    Maybe the local council did a good job when the terms of the planning permission for an expansion was agreed? If so then well done to them, the Airport should benefit the people who live near it not just disadvantage the people who live near it.
     
  23. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    £25 for a 3 mile trip!? Or is it a rather roundabout way ?

    I'm 12 miles in a straight line from Luton, and a taxi there for me is £28.
     
  24. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Just measured it in Google Maps. It is almost exactly 3 miles from the western end of the runway to Knutsford town centre. By road, the shortest route from the terminals to Knutsford town centre is about 10 miles, with the more sensible route via the A556 and M56 is about 11 miles.
     
  25. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I gave roughly the straight line distance from the end of the runway to my house. I don't think it's permissible for taxis to drive across fields and up the runway to get to the Airport!

    Taxi companies who offer Airport transfers seem to charge a lot more for journeys which cross the Greater Manchester boundary.

    I didn't measure it exactly but if it's exactly 3 miles to Knutsford town centre it'll be a bit less than that to my house. Someone offered to give me a lift the last time I went to the Airport which was at rush hour time so the most sensible route was via Mobberley and Morley Green.
     
  26. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    I can see the legal teams who act for the airport that still is owned by the ten constituent council bodies that make up what is referred to as "Greater Manchester"making strenuous attempts to put forward the benefits of the expansion plans of the airport in terms of employment opportunities, future international trade links (noting the Chinese involvement in the recently announced large project), etc and noting not only the existing heavy rail and Manchester Metrolink light rail links coupled to the existing bus and coach serve provision in this TfGM area bus and coach station interchange then of the vast numbers of car parking spaces on both multi-story and surface car parks, to respond to the charge of not enough public transport links.

    Is it envisaged that a doubling in size of the existing bus and coach station will be required to handle such extra provision of this type. The area external to Greater Manchester is already served by the High Peak service 199 as far as Buxton and the service 200 to Wilmslow railway station (which calls at the National Trust property of Quarry Bank Mill)?

    There is already a "mothballed" heavy-rail fourth platform at Manchester Airport railway station.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jun 2015
  27. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Manchester Airport usually get's its own way for proposed developments provided they are within the Greater Manchester boundary but plans for building new car parks outside the GM boundary do not always go in the Airport's favour. One in 2007 for 1,500 parking spaces was rejected by Macclesfield Borough Council, the Airport appealed to the government who ruled in favour in the council.

    I don't think there's anything new in the Airport's public transport plan other than they don't want one proposed development to go ahead. An extension of the Metrolink line to Airport City was expected anyway.

    It's interesting the 200 service you refer to is sponsored by Cheshire East council, while the 199 service is is sponsored by Derbyshire County Council without any support from the Airport. While the 200 service is provided 7 days a week the hours of operation are very limited compared to the hours the Airport operates. If the Airport wants to support public transport then why isn't it providing support for public transport routes which go outside Greater Manchester? Private companies like Waters, McCanns and AstraZeneca are happy to provide funding so that buses serve their premises. Yet from what I heard if an operator asks the Airport about running a bus route there commercially the Airport doesn't just say 'yes' and allocates a stand for them to use.
     
  28. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Gatwick bus routes have little problem crossing the boundary between West Sussex and Surrey as funding comes from the airport, although most services are commercial. It also helps that there is a single dominant operator which has had a long term relationship with the airport. They have even started overnight buses from the south coast.

    Maybe cross boundary routes for Manchester have an issue because it is mostly owned by the authorities in GM, so buses wholly within GM get priority.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jun 2015
  29. catfordbags

    catfordbags Member

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    Is there a proposed route for the western link ? Looking at the map, if the route pretty much stayed within the boundary of the airport it could end up within 1km of the mid cheshire line near Mobberley station.
     
  30. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    I will address the point that you make with regard to Stockport, if I may. The High Peak service 199 from Buxton calls at Stockport bus station then runs non-stop via the motorway network from there direct to the Manchester Airport interchange.
    Stockport bus station dep. 0425....Manchester Airport arr. 0440
    Stockport bus station dep. 0500....Manchester Airport arr. 0515

    Are those two buses from Stockport not adequate?
     
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