Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Captain Speaking, 16 Feb 2012.

  1. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    They are not aerials. I'm not quite sure what they are called, but what they do is short circuit the bare feeder for the AT equipment in the event it detaches from the insulators holding it up. Otherwise if the bare feeder came down, it could well be live at 25kV on or near the ground.

    They are provided wherever the bare feeder goes over platforms, underbridges or signalling equipment locs.
     
  2. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    The narrow horizontal bars under the insulators, also pointing left.
    They look for all the world like UHF aerials with vertical polarisation.

    Just physical baffles then?
    Reminds me of the time I thought the term TTL when referring to SLR cameras meant some fancy electronics technology, only to find it meant "Through The Lens" viewfinding...:cry:
     
  3. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    My understanding from meetings with NR and Balfour Beatty you are. All new electrification schemes to use Autotransformers.

    I don't understand why they are better, as a civil engineer, but i am led to believe they are more efficient?
     
  4. Ironside

    Ironside Member

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    Could you tell me what an autotransformer is please?
     
  5. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    Put simply it is a single coil from a transformer connected so that the middle is at 0v (and is connected to the rail) and one end is connected to the overhead line supply and is thus at ~25kV.

    The other end is therefore also at ~25kV but with opposite phase so its effectively -25kV, these ends are then connected with the "autotransformer cable" that can be seen in the photographs.

    The autotransformers are spread along the line and take the 0-25kV current used by the locomotive and convert it to a -25 - 25kV flow with half the current.
    AS well as decreasing losses to heating in the line, this also takes most of the traction return current out of the rail so makes signalling equipment easier to immunise.

    These two functions are very useful when having to supply large amounts of traction power on a relatively compact piece of track.
    It can also save money if it means more existing signal equipment can be retained at electrification.
     
  6. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    HSTEd got it alot better than me as i just need to know where to build the things not how they work.
    Is another benefit that they require less boosters between substations? Also double the distance between substations/feeder points reducing cost?
     
  7. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    HSTed beat me to it, but it helps in many ways, mainly efficency and return current path, it also reduced the return ground current (hearby reducing resistance and risk to local services)
     
  8. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Post deleted
     
    Last edited: 12 May 2013
  9. Joseph_Locke

    Joseph_Locke Established Member

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    Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
    Pssssst, the first one is "Booster Transformer (BT)" and the second is "Autotransformer (AT)".
     
  10. Ironside

    Ironside Member

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    Thanks all for the explanations, clearly this is a useful bit of kit.
     
  11. Edvid

    Edvid Member

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    Those devices are called booster transformers and are attached to the masts every 2 miles or thereabouts. Autotransformers are much bigger and are only situated within feeder stations or sectioning/midpoint sites.

    Operational 2*25kV systems within the UK are currently confined to HS1 (new) and sections of the West Coast/Midland Main Lines (conversions).
     
  12. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Although you could use an Autotransformer as a Booster Transformer, but it's not recomended...
     
  13. Green Lane

    Green Lane Member

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    Here's a zoom of that first picture.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    Secondary purpose of the safety "aerials" - to keep pigeons off...:)
    I did notice they were fixed to both sides/ends of the short tunnel in Kenyon cutting.
     
  15. balne-wonderer

    balne-wonderer Member

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    thanks for the pics. Dare we say....true progress!!
     
  16. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Apologies for confusion - original post deleted.
     
  17. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    Are these gantries on simple pole masts?

    That looks a little.... odd.

    Is this equipment going to be similar to the stuff the HOOP train is going to put out on the Great Western?
     
  18. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    No and no...
    There are a wide variety of OHLE structures going up.
    The easy sections are simple poles as you say, but there is a sizeable proportion of portal structures (including virtually the whole stretch over the moss and east of the M60).
    There are also plenty of L-shaped lattice structures like some in the pictures, where the masts are on one side but carry two lines of OLE.

    I forget which is which, but there are two new NR OHLE standards, Series 1 and Series 2.
    One for good to 100mph (which this is), and the other for 100-140mph (which is the GW spec).
    Whether the HOOP equipment can do the lower speed routes I don't know.
    I would guess the higher speed type will also go on the MML, but the lower speed will suffice for everywhere else.

    Foundations on the L&M are a mix of concrete and tubular piles, but I think the GW bases are to be all piled (at least on the HOOP sections).
    I shouldn't think the HOOP trains will be used in the complex layouts around Bristol and Cardiff.
     
  19. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    More progress to report on L&M electrification.
    Wires are now up through Patricroft station. In fact they run mostly intact for about 3 miles from the west ramp of the M602 terminal roundabout almost to the M60 bridge.
    Some stretches are still temporary, and there is a short gap east of Eccles station (though the loop round the back of the platform is wired).
    Wires at Parkside now extend almost to the old BR wires - a gap of about 3 masts.

    Steelwork continues to grow, notably at Ordsall Lane Jn and over the east end of the Moss.
    Portal structures and registration kit have now gone up between the M60 and M62 bridges.
    This is where some of the large-footprint foundations are, at the bottom of the embankments well away from the track.
    The vertical masts are twice the normal length to reach up to normal height, so the appearance is very "heavy".
    These big foundations continue to be installed over the "final mile" east of Glazebury, beyond where the wires have been up for months.

    At Huyton they have made progress clearing a generation's worth of tree roots from the new 4-track solum.
    A work site is taking shape on the north-west side of Roby station.
     
  20. DJH1971

    DJH1971 Established Member

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    So great to hear!

    Need to make the final push on the small part of Chat Moss now.

    Phase 2 will be coming quick before we know it.

    The impending closure of the line between St Helens Central and Wigan from June to September (because of the bridge works at Bryn) could be a good opportunity to get some more work done around there.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I saw for myself today the portal structures whilst driving on the M60 near the M62/M602 junction and proves how much the local skyline is about to change.
     
  21. GRALISTAIR

    GRALISTAIR Established Member

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    My daughter dropped us off at Liverpool Lime Street yesterday for my flight back to the USA!!! So we got the train to Manchester Airport. With an 11.35 aircraft departure the 08.13 ex Lime Street was perfect and with all the daylight and a window seat got a great opportunity to view the progress.

    I confirm steel structures in abundance almost everywhere except not many at all between Edge Hill and NLW. But excellent progress and with wires also between NLW and Manchester Oxford Road. I saw two crews working on the way but I will still be surprised if all done by the end of the year. None the less, wonderful to see.
     
  22. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    None, actually.
    Did anyone notice the Dan Snow Locomotion programme on BBC2 last night?
    It was mostly about the building of the L&M.
    He was tramping around Parkside looking at the Huskisson memorial with new masts visible in the distance.
    Did he know there was a replica of the memorial in the station at Newton-le-Willows?
    The Balfour Beatty concreting train went past at one point.
    Some good aerial views of Chat Moss too, plus a walk over the bog.
    Otherwise I thought the programme was a bit naff.
    Too much trendy slow-motion and close-up photography of nothing in particular...
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2013
  23. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    Tbf, it's only a replica of the tablet that is at Newton-le-Willows and it's quite high up above the stairwell.
     
  24. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    There is a lot of metalwork over the TPE depot in the eastern Picadilly approach.
    But some of the cantilevers seemed to be placed at odd angles to the depot lines, I assume to support crossovers of some kind?
     
  25. DJH1971

    DJH1971 Established Member

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    It won't be all be done by the end of this year.

    Only the Manchester to N-L-W stretch will be done by the end of the year.

    The Edge Hill to N-L-W (plus Huyton to Wigan Springs Branch) is scheduled for the end of next year.
     
  26. 76020

    76020 Member

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  27. DJH1971

    DJH1971 Established Member

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    :roll::roll:
    Oh yes, the trains that sound like a wailing banshee! :roll:
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I've heard within another forum that OHL work at Manchester Victoria is scheduled to take place in December (this year) over an 8 day period.

    Anyone have any more om this?
     
  28. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    Article in this week's Rail magazine, including some info on how the new kit will be tested (using class 92 apparently).
    The work at Victoria is linked to the Christmas blockade for station rebuilding.
    It doesn't seem to cover the Victoria-Ordsall Lane section which will come later.
     
  29. DJH1971

    DJH1971 Established Member

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    I've heard in another forum today that TPE are going to be borrowing a 350 from LM for driver training starting from the end of July.
     
  30. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    Whereabouts will they be training? WCML?
     

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