Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[DJH1971]

Whereabouts will they be training? WCML?

Most probably.

 

[Geeves]

No reason why they cant do test runs on the Airport - Picc and Picc - Guide bridge sections, seeing as they already sign those sections, although not much chance to get much speed up I Suppose!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

No reason why they cant do test runs on the Airport - Picc and Picc - Guide bridge sections, seeing as they already sign those sections, although not much chance to get much speed up I Suppose!

It says Crewe-Carlisle in the Rail article, at least initially before the Chat Moss line is ready.
Some LM's 350s are based at Crewe.

 

[edwin_m]

They probably want the drivers to get the feel of them at 100mph (or even 110). That wouldn't be possible on any of the electrified TPE routes round Manchester.

 

[76020]

There is engineering work on various bits on the Chat Moss line over the next six weekends, does anybody know what is going on?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hopefully it's beefing up the line for 75/90mph running.
There are some signalling changes too to improve section running times.

 

[DJH1971]

There is engineering work on various bits on the Chat Moss line over the next six weekends, does anybody know what is going on?

Looks like it's the car for the next six weeks then.

At least they're really getting their backs into it now by the sound of things, :roll::roll:

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There is engineering work on various bits on the Chat Moss line over the next six weekends, does anybody know what is going on?

Do not know sorry - but it sounds like good news - a real push so all done by December 2013.

 

[DJH1971]

Do not know sorry - but it sounds like good news - a real push so all done by December 2013.

At least it will also mean the final few missing mast bases on Chat Moss will be done at last!

 

[Holly]

Do not know sorry - but it sounds like good news - a real push so all done by December 2013.

Does that include Manchester-Chat Moss-WCML(South)?

As well as M-CM-WCML(North) that is.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does that include Manchester-Chat Moss-WCML(South)?
As well as M-CM-WCML(North) that is.

Yes.
Fully electrified route Warrington BQ to Manchester but no trains able to use it (except possibly VT ECS back to Longsight)...

 

[edwin_m]

Yes.
Fully electrified route Warrington BQ to Manchester but no trains able to use it (except possibly VT ECS back to Longsight)...

Which if they ever do will end up in reverse formation. This could be a real pain as apart from sending it back out via Chat Moss and BQ or diesel-hauling it I think the only places to turn a Pendolino are around Birmingham or Glasgow.

I am no doubt about to be inundated with other options.

 

[Holly]

Yes.
Fully electrified route Warrington BQ to Manchester but no trains able to use it (except possibly VT ECS back to Longsight)...

Is there not a case for sending some Birmingham-Manchester trains that way?

I could see a commute hour Hartford-Manchester train being a lot faster than the present Greenbank-Manchester service.
Plus relieve some pressure on Stockport.

Or is Bir-Man presently Voyagers under the wire anyway?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Does that include Manchester-Chat Moss-WCML(South)?

As well as M-CM-WCML(North) that is.

Warrington Bank Quay-Earlestown-Newton le Willows-Wigan is already electrified. Electrification will see both remaining parts of the triangles at Newton-le-Willows and Earlestown electrified (AIUI). At Newton-le-Willows it will be required for the services from Manchester to Scotland and Liverpool use electric units.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes.
Fully electrified route Warrington BQ to Manchester but no trains able to use it ...

I wouldn't count those chickens just yet ...

 

[Holly]

... Electrification will see both remaining parts of the triangles at Newton-le-Willows and Earlestown electrified (AIUI). At Newton-le-Willows it will be required for the services from Manchester to Scotland and Liverpool use electric units.

Yes.
The issue was whether WBQ-Man is included in phase 1 or waits for phase 2.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I wouldn't count those chickens just yet ...

You cant just leave it at that! Tell us more!

 

[dggar]

Is there not a case for sending some Birmingham-Manchester trains that way?

I could see a commute hour Hartford-Manchester train being a lot faster than the present Greenbank-Manchester service.
Plus relieve some pressure on Stockport.

Or is Bir-Man presently Voyagers under the wire anyway?

I thought virtually all the Manchester Birmingham services were operated by XC using Voyagers.

 

[snowball]

Yes.
The issue was whether WBQ-Man is included in phase 1 or waits for phase 2.

It's part of phase 1. It would extremely odd for it not to be.

The only way it could fail to be part of phase 1 would be if they left the south side of the Parkside triangle for a year as a 500-yard unelectrified island surrounded by newly and previously electrified bits, then went back a year later and electrified it too.

Most of the lines in the Earlestown-Newton-le-Willows area - those needed to leave and rejoin the WCML - were electrified as part of the WCML in the 1970s.

Whether there will be electric services is another matter. I'm not the person to ask about that. The only Manchester-WBQ services that I knew existed are those to N Wales.

 

[Holly]

You cant just leave it at that! Tell us more!

Freight perhaps?

 

[Eagle]

I thought virtually all the Manchester Birmingham services were operated by XC using Voyagers.

All* Manchester to Birmingham services are XC, and almost all of them continue to somewhere unelectrified. For now at least, pending the electric spine.

*one exception, there's a VT service early morning that does MAN–BHM–EUS for some reason

 

[Whistler40145]

Will Virgin divert Pendolinos via Warrington Bank Quay if the line is blocked south of Manchester Piccadilly?


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[edwin_m]

There are electrified diversionary routes between Colwich/Crewe and Slade Lane, so diversion via Warrington would only be needed if the blockage was between Slade Lane and Piccadilly. It would be virtually impossible to terminate Pendolinos in Piccadilly P13/14 in the best of circumstances, and such a blockage would almost certainly block access between Piccadilly and Longsight and therefore make thing totally impossible.

 

[Whistler40145]

But wouldn't be impossible e.g. on a Saturday night for the last Euston to Manchester to run via Warrington Bank Quay & then ECS to Longsight?

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[Eagle]

It used to be the case that the first XC service from Manchester in the morning (which is first stop Crewe) would go via Warrington Mon/Wed/Fri, alternating with going via Heald Green Tue/Thu. In the current timetable it seems to go via Heald Green Mon-Thu, and Stockport Fri.

 

[DJH1971]

I noted today whilst traveling to Liverpool via St Helens Central, I saw some more mast bases in place now in place between St Helens Central and Thatto Heath and they were of the circular variety again.

Work with the new tracking at Huyton is continuing at a lightning pace now.

BTW: the Chat Moss line will be back open next weekend and the weekend after that.

It shut again in 21/22 June.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If it weren't for the already congested through platforms at Picc, would there be anything to be gained by looping Virgin's Manchester services via Warrington (alternating the direction perhaps)- this would be similar to the now-shelved proposal to operate ECML Leeds services around a loop rather than reversing at Leeds.

 

[edwin_m]

If it weren't for the already congested through platforms at Picc, would there be anything to be gained by looping Virgin's Manchester services via Warrington (alternating the direction perhaps)- this would be similar to the now-shelved proposal to operate ECML Leeds services around a loop rather than reversing at Leeds.

There would have to be six or so through platforms at Piccadilly to allow this (at least two long enough for an 11-car Pendolino). A long distance train needs around 30min turnaround time at each end of the route to allow cleaning/servicing and to provide a buffer so that minor delays on the incoming journey won't delay the train going out. As Manchester is the prime destination for this service, the long stop would have to be there, so with services every 20min there would be at least one and sometimes two London trains waiting there. For the same reason it doesn't help with stock utilisation, and the journey time via Warrington would be longer than either existing route.

For the record I can't really see the point of doing this for Leeds either!
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But wouldn't be impossible e.g. on a Saturday night for the last Euston to Manchester to run via Warrington Bank Quay & then ECS to Longsight?

I've just checked that 13 and 14 are long enough for an 11-car Pendolino so it is not impossible (though Northern Hub could shorten these platforms). It is however highly inconvenient to have one set sitting in Longsight with First Class at the wrong end and no easy way to reverse it. I can't imagine NR being too thrilled with a request to turn it on the Ordsall Traingle!

However as I pointed out above there are electrified diversionary routes from Colwich/Crewe to Slade Lane and any blockage further south with no diversionary route would equally affect a train via Warrington. The only advantage I can see is that it would give Warrington an extra service, but this would be at the expense of the stations on one of the other Manchester routes.

 

[Darren R]

For the record I can't really see the point of doing this for Leeds either!

Slightly off-topic I know, but I believe the point of bringing in Leeds-bound ECML services from the east like that was only in relation to the through trains to Bradford and Skipton, not all Kings Cross - Leeds services. Quicker and easier than having them change ends in Leeds was the theory.

 

[Eagle]

Also Grand Central recently put in an application to do that, running through Leeds and serving their usual West Yorkshire stations in reverse order. The ORR rejected it.