Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[Holly]

Crewe-Warrington-Earlestown-Manchester doesn't seem to have many advantages for express services. Except Perhaps as an engineering diversion.

But an all shacks stopper would attract significant business from rural Cheshire. Given that the Cheshire Lines mid-Chesire route via Stockport is so very slow. No faster than it was in steam days due to the downgrading of the line at Altrincham. Of course, "insufficient rolling stock" even for existing services is a perennial problem in the North.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Crewe-Warrington-Earlestown-Manchester doesn't seem to have many advantages for express services. Except perhaps as an engineering diversion.

What would be the main reduction in speed from Earlestown to Manchester that would affect these express services.

 

[Whistler40145]

Even if it wasn't practical to use Pendolinos via Warrington to Manchester during Engineering Works, an alternative is to run an Express EMU service from Manchester Airport to Warrington Bank Quay or Crewe.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[edwin_m]

There's an aspiration out there to extend the ATW service via Chester to Manchester Airport every hour, which would give Warrington a fastish Airport service.

 

[pemma]

There's an aspiration out there to extend the ATW service via Chester to Manchester Airport every hour, which would give Warrington a fastish Airport service.

Network Rail have engaged with stakeholders about how to improve the Chester-Warrington-Manchester service. They originally proposed Llandudno-Leeds via Bradford* and a new Chester-Manchester Airport service, with the former being semi-fast Chester-Manchester. However, as a result of the feedback that's come from the Welsh stakeholders it's now likely to be Chester-Leeds via Bradford* (semi-fast) and Llandudno-Manchester services will retain the same stopping pattern and be extended to the Airport.

* Hull via Huddersfield is also being considered but less likely due to electrification plans.

 

[76020]

I noted today whilst traveling to Liverpool via St Helens Central, I saw some more mast bases in place now in place between St Helens Central and Thatto Heath and they were of the circular variety again.

Work with the new tracking at Huyton is continuing at a lightning pace now.

BTW: the Chat Moss line will be back open next weekend and the weekend after that.

It shut again in 21/22 June.

It is closed again this Sunday, according to the national rail website:-
Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street services are diverted to start from Wigan North Western. Buses will run between Manchester Oxford Road and Huyton. Passengers should use alternative services to / from Manchester Airport / Manchester Piccadilly.

It is also closed during the following four weekends either Saturday and Sunday or Sunday only.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

However, as a result of the feedback that's come from the Welsh stakeholders it's now likely to be Chester-Leeds via Bradford* (semi-fast) and Llandudno-Manchester services will retain the same stopping pattern and be extended to the Airport.

Does the Calder Valley route have much spare paths available, noting that the Blackburn-(Copy Pit line)-Manchester services from Todmorden to Manchester will soon have to be dovetailed into the existing patterns. However, any new usage on this line can make the "hoped-for" electrification of this line are little higher up on the list of priorities.

 

[edwin_m]

I think this means that one of the existing Leeds-Bradford-Manchester services would be extended to Chester. Unless it's changed recently, the Todmorden Curve scheme extends an existing Manchester-Rochdale service to Burnley and Blackburn. So neither of these schemes has any impact on line capacity between Victoria and Rochdale.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Unless it's changed recently, the Todmorden Curve scheme extends an existing Manchester-Rochdale service to Burnley and Blackburn.

Which existing service do you specifically make reference to ?

 

[pemma]

Yes I mean an existing Calder Vale service to Chester.

An example of how paths could be used based on the current arrival times at Victoria:

xx:08 arrival at Victoria from Leeds
xx:25 arrival at Victoria from Rochdale - Becomes a Blackburn/Burnley* to Manchester Airport
xx:30 arrival at Victoria from Leeds - Becomes a Leeds to Chester
xx:43 arrival at Victoria from Leeds - Becomes a Leeds to Manchester Airport

* I'm not sure if it will be Blackburn as edwin_m states as there are plans for additional Bolton-Manchester local services with TPE Scottish services going via Wigan instead and I've heard suggestions that service might originate from Blackburn.

 

[edwin_m]

Which existing service do you specifically make reference to ?

I don't remember full details but when we looked at it about 18 months ago there was a Rochdale terminator (came through from Wigan in most hours I think) that could be extended. Things may have changed since.

 

[pemma]

I don't remember full details but when we looked at it about 18 months ago there was a Rochdale terminator (came through from Wigan in most hours I think) that could be extended. Things may have changed since.

I've just dug out DfT's Illustrative Option scheme for CP5 HLOS. The ones directly/indirectly related to what's being discussed in this thread.

Victoria (Transpennine)

• Half-hourly fast Liverpool – (Chat Moss) – Victoria – Leeds – York – Newcastle electric service.
• Half hourly fast Manchester Airport – Piccadilly (Ordsall Chord) – Victoria – Leeds – York electric service.

Victoria (Northern)

• Services from Liverpool, Southport, Wigan, Blackburn and Clitheroe extended to Stalybridge or Rochdale and revised to match current patterns of demand.
• Blackburn/Accrington via Todmorden diesel services introduced.
• Wigan – Kirby becomes self-contained diesel service.

Piccadilly (Northern)

• Liverpool – Earlestown – Piccadilly local service electrified, extended to Manchester Airport and frequency increase to half-hourly.

Piccadilly (Transpennine)

• Half hourly fast Manchester Airport – Piccadilly (Ordsall Chord) – Victoria – Leeds – York electric service.
• Hourly semi-fast Piccadilly – Leeds – Selby electric service.
• Hourly semi-fast Piccadilly – Leeds – Selby – Hull diesel service.
• Hourly fast Piccadilly - Wigan – Preston – Carlisle – Scotland electric service.
• Hourly Piccadilly – Blackpool North electric service.

Piccadilly (Other)

• Liverpool via Warrington semi-fast services continue to Sheffield.

Leeds (Northern)

• Half-hourly Micklefield - Leeds – Bradford – Rochdale – Manchester Victoria diesel services (fast Bradford – Manchester, assumed in Manchester to extend to Warrington/Chester).

No clear indication on the Wigan-Rochdale service being extended to Burnley.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Passengers should use alternative services to / from Manchester Airport / Manchester Piccadilly.

It is also closed during the following four weekends either Saturday and Sunday or Sunday only.

Ah yes, the general "sod em" type of approach. Rather than run a direct service via the routes still open, the punters can shoehorn their way onto already full and standing services which struggle to cope with their own passengers, let alone any more.

 

[HSTEd]

Well if we still had one company running all train services and with a fleet of largely interchangeable units (read Sprinters) then those additional service could have been strengthened.

We don't however.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well if we still had one company running all train services and with a fleet of largely interchangeable units (read Sprinters) then those additional service could have been strengthened.

We don't however.

But that would mean all the "uncouth" Northerners being subjected to certain types of "High-Quality" modern rolling stock, when as you know, Pacers of a certain elderly age (some fitted with bus seats) are what is felt to be good enough for them by those who know best.....

 

[DJH1971]

I've just dug out DfT's Illustrative Option scheme for CP5 HLOS. The ones directly/indirectly related to what's being discussed in this thread.



No clear indication on the Wigan-Rochdale service being extended to Burnley.

I don't know how EMU's will be able to get to Stalybridge from Liverpool after phases 1 & 2 are completed.

I know there are plans for electrification from Manchester to Leeds/York, but I hear that's a bit further off!

 

[WatcherZero]

Electrification from Victoria to Stalybridge is now part of the Hub works, together new platforms at Stalybridge and Rochdale will provide the terminal capacity originally proposed as extra west facing bays at Victoria.

 

[Eagle]

Does that include Guide Bridge to Stalybridge too?

 

[snowball]

new platforms at Stalybridge

Is that additional to the rebuilding of Stalybridge a few months ago?

 

[Viscount702]

I am hesitant to quote dates because they keep slipping back but based on what I currently believe is intended is this:-

1. Victoria - Stalybridge although part of TP electrification is treated as TP West and will be done as part of Northwest Electrification and completed at the same time as Phase 4 of the latter in 2016.

2.Guide Bridge - Stalybridge is part of TP West and due to be completed in 2016. Also Ashburys West Junction-Philips Marsh West Junction/Baguley Fold junction is included as well for diversions and empty stock workings

The extra Platforms at Stalybridge were completed last year and the extra Platform at Rochdale is due to be done as part of the Hub and I think completed in 2016 but I have not seen that confirmed anywhere yet.

Mind you as WZ said elsewhere I am not sure how they are going to complete the Chord by 2016 as planned as that seems to be at least 6 months at least behind at present

 

[WatcherZero]

Is that additional to the rebuilding of Stalybridge a few months ago?

No thats it.

 

[76020]

https://plus.google.com/+transpenni...RdFotD#+transpennineexpress/posts/3mp3tRdFotD

 

[DJH1971]

I've also had word that wires are now up over the M60 and M62 bridges.

 

[pemma]

I don't know how EMU's will be able to get to Stalybridge from Liverpool after phases 1 & 2 are completed.

I know there are plans for electrification from Manchester to Leeds/York, but I hear that's a bit further off!

Electrification from Victoria to Stalybridge is now part of the Hub works, together new platforms at Stalybridge and Rochdale will provide the terminal capacity originally proposed as extra west facing bays at Victoria.

The illustrative example is also based on post-Ordsall Chord when they'll be trying to avoid services arriving at Victoria from the west terminating there.

 

[Darren R]

2.Guide Bridge - Stalybridge is part of TP West and due to be completed in 2016. Also Ashburys West Junction-Philips Marsh West Junction/Baguley Fold junction is included as well for diversions and empty stock workings

Philips Park! (Sorry - pedant mode off.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Philips Park! (Sorry - pedant mode off.)

The poster could have been thinking of St Philip's Marsh station in the Bristol area, that was opened in 1870 and closed to passengers in 1953, but still handled freight for some years after this.

 

[DJH1971]

More evidence of progress ovee Char Moss, as even more portals are now UK.

The substation at N-L-W is now ib the process of getting wired up.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I've also had word that wires are now up over the M60 and M62 bridges.

There were certainly some wires up when I drove past yesterday on the M62.

 

[DJH1971]

There were certainly some wires up when I drove past yesterday on the M62.

I saw them too today. Chat Moss is catching up real fast now and saw more men at work today.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Am I right in thinking that the first services to switch to electric traction along this corridor are the TPE Scottish services (which will switch to running via Wigan)?

In which case, which is more likely: That the wires will be up and ready with no trains to use them? Or that the 350/4s will be delivered but have nowhere to go?