Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

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Bovverboy

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I don't know the area particularly well, but it seems to me that there are enough people in Eccles (and the catchment area of its station) to easily support a frequent commuter service of at least 4tph, in addition to Metrolink. If the infrastructure can't support that I wonder what it says about investment in 'the Northern Powerhouse'?
I think that there's a definite limit to the catchment area of Eccles station. Bus services are frequent (to the extent of counting as 'turn up and go'), so unless someone happens to live within reasonable walking distance of the station, any advantage that the train holds is easily lost, especially given the relative proximity of Eccles and Manchester. A person living as close to Eccles centre as, say Ladywell, wouldn't realistically contemplate travelling into Manchester by train (although that would presumably change if the oft-mooted ramps from the eastern ends of the platforms to Gilda Brook Road were to be constructed). Someone travelling into Eccles by bus from the west would probably not find it worthwhile to change on to a train for Manchester, given the tramp up to the station, and, even with the best of planning, a bit of a wait for the train. Add to that the likelihood that the bus is more likely than the train to deposit a passenger close to their intended destination.
 
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edwin_m

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I imagine what happens to the Eccles service will depend on what we get for NPR. If this continues to be the main Liverpool-Manchester route then extra stoppers are unlikely except with very heavy investment. If the Liverpool fasts take another route such as using HS2 via Manchester Airport then there would be scope for stopping more of the remaining trains at Eccles.
 

frodshamfella

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Today on Radio 4 "Any Questions" I was amazed to hear Owen Paterson MP response with respect to improving infrastructure across the north, that he wasn't that fussed with the idea of having electrification from Manchester further east, "new fast diesels " are the answer. Surely Electric is the only modern way ahead and the electric should run from coast to coast west to east. David Dimbleby's response I thought was good,as it appeared that Owen Paterson wasn't bother about the impact on the environment from diesel either.
 

Senex

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Today on Radio 4 "Any Questions" I was amazed to hear Owen Paterson MP response with respect to improving infrastructure across the north, that he wasn't that fussed with the idea of having electrification from Manchester further east, "new fast diesels " are the answer. Surely Electric is the only modern way ahead and the electric should run from coast to coast west to east. David Dimbleby's response I thought was good,as it appeared that Owen Paterson wasn't bother about the impact on the environment from diesel either.
I heard that too and was amazed at his lack of concern at impact on the environment. As for the "new fast diesels", presumably he doesn't use them much or he would have been well aware of the contrast with electrics in terms of noise and vibration (as well as internal rattles) and the appalling noice-levels in stations where a number of modern diesels are standing idling.

If we are genuinely expecting to see a programme of major route enhancements announced for the Manchester-Leeds-York line, then it would be daft to electrify in advance of that work, but surely aim has to be for an all-electric route at the end of the modernisation programme. Or will the route-enhancement announcement turn out to be just another Network Rail damp squib?
 

a_c_skinner

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Sorry, that is politics, they say what they are told to say. What bothers me is he doesn't think electric has performance gains on hilly routes with a lot of stops.
 

takno

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As the MP for North Shropshire there's a very good chance he's never been on a train East of Manchester and never intends to.
 

David Emmott

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As a Shropshire MP and indeed a Shropshire lad he will have a lot of experience of poor rail connections though.
As A Tory MP (and born into an apparently wealthy family) he's probably been chauffeur driven for most of his life. I doubt if he uses local trains very much if at all.
 

frodshamfella

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I heard that too and was amazed at his lack of concern at impact on the environment. As for the "new fast diesels", presumably he doesn't use them much or he would have been well aware of the contrast with electrics in terms of noise and vibration (as well as internal rattles) and the appalling noice-levels in stations where a number of modern diesels are standing idling.

If we are genuinely expecting to see a programme of major route enhancements announced for the Manchester-Leeds-York line, then it would be daft to electrify in advance of that work, but surely aim has to be for an all-electric route at the end of the modernisation programme. Or will the route-enhancement announcement turn out to be just another Network Rail damp squib?
Totally agree, it should be electric all the way from Liverpool to Manchester to Leeds and York/ Hull. Interestingly most on the panel were not pro to HS2, spend the money linking up the north instead. I'd agree.
 

Broseley man

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Those of us who live in Shropshire know that much / all of what Mr Paterson says and writes indicates that he has lost the plot on much of what is happening in the decade starting 2010. Much the same can be said of the other Shropshire MPs. Look them up if you don't believe me.
 

Loop & Link

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Bit of a specialist question, hoping one of my signalling colleagues can assist here.

Roby Jn-Huyton Jn 4th track - anyone know what the overlap is from LL3582-3590 (Up Chat Moss-Up Chat Moss Fast) and then being able to set a route from Up Chat Moss to Up Chat Moss Slow (LL3582 to 5580) after the route has timed out?

I was watching on CCF, and found between the route being cancelled onto the Up Chat Moss and setting the route onto Up Chat Moss slow was quite time consuming.

Thanks!
 

takno

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Pardon me for asking, but what's CCF ?
I'm assuming Control Centre for the Future:
Control centre system that integrates all train running monitoring functions and provides a map based display of current and historical train running facilities. Data is collected from Train Describers, compared against schedules, and displayed on a track-level map.
As far as I can tell it's an internal system that's a bit like traksy, but with more comprehensive coverage of routes/signal aspects etc, and more facilities in terms of replaying data
 

PDG1949

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I'm assuming Control Centre for the Future:

As far as I can tell it's an internal system that's a bit like traksy, but with more comprehensive coverage of routes/signal aspects etc, and more facilities in terms of replaying data
Thanks, Takno - guessed it'd probably be something like that to get that amount of detail.
 

Joseph_Locke

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Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
Bit of a specialist question, hoping one of my signalling colleagues can assist here.

Roby Jn-Huyton Jn 4th track - anyone know what the overlap is from LL3582-3590 (Up Chat Moss-Up Chat Moss Fast) and then being able to set a route from Up Chat Moss to Up Chat Moss Slow (LL3582 to 5580) after the route has timed out?

I was watching on CCF, and found between the route being cancelled onto the Up Chat Moss and setting the route onto Up Chat Moss slow was quite time consuming.

Thanks!
Don't have that good a memory, But Roby Junction has FA so the time out will look a long way back?
 

LDECRexile

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I have been asked by Network Rail if they may use images from the Combined Volume from time to time, giving due credit to the contributor. No money will change hands in either direction.

I'm perfectly OK with this for the images I've contributed, but I can't speak for others who have so kindly sent their material. This message is a blanket request to all contributors - please may NR use selected images you have sent to the Manchester-Liverpool and Blackpool-Manchester Combined Volumes, so long as they give you due credit in the time-honoured style?

I will take no answer by 12:00 Monday next, 22nd Jan 2018 to mean "of course!"
 

DJH1971

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I have been asked by Network Rail if they may use images from the Combined Volume from time to time, giving due credit to the contributor. No money will change hands in either direction.

I'm perfectly OK with this for the images I've contributed, but I can't speak for others who have so kindly sent their material. This message is a blanket request to all contributors - please may NR use selected images you have sent to the Manchester-Liverpool and Blackpool-Manchester Combined Volumes, so long as they give you due credit in the time-honoured style?

I will take no answer by 12:00 Monday next, 22nd Jan 2018 to mean "of course!"
You're fine with mine
 

GRALISTAIR

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I have been asked by Network Rail if they may use images from the Combined Volume from time to time, giving due credit to the contributor. No money will change hands in either direction.

I'm perfectly OK with this for the images I've contributed, but I can't speak for others who have so kindly sent their material. This message is a blanket request to all contributors - please may NR use selected images you have sent to the Manchester-Liverpool and Blackpool-Manchester Combined Volumes, so long as they give you due credit in the time-honoured style?

I will take no answer by 12:00 Monday next, 22nd Jan 2018 to mean "of course!"
I don’t think I contributed much on this but if I did you are very welcome
 

8A Rail

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Why did you delete your post as it was relevant to the line? I appreciated the link and found it interesting.

I have reinserted below

"Not strictly electrification, but Construction News page on the redevelopment of Newton-le-Willows station" See: https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/...-act-on-19th-century-station/10026229.article

Construction News said:
Newton-Le-Willows station near Warrington was built in 1845 and is undergoing an £18m revamp. The original 1845 ticket office, which is a listed building, will close to the public and a new ticket office is being built. A subway is also being dug to link the station to the platform on the other side of the tracks.

But this is far from straightforward, as Galliford Try is employing a construction method never before attempted in the UK.

The team is mining underneath the tracks to create the subway, while trains continue to rattle above them. The line has been kept fully operational while works are ongoing and has required the team to do some complex engineering in order to ensure no damage is done to the historic route or the original listed ticket office.
 

PDG1949

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Why did you delete your post as it was relevant to the line? I appreciated the link and found it interesting.

I have reinserted below

"Not strictly electrification, but Construction News page on the redevelopment of Newton-le-Willows station" See: https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/...-act-on-19th-century-station/10026229.article

Hi Doug (and other interested parties),

When I was originally browsing, I came across the feature as an 'open' page - ie no need to register before reading it, so copied the URL

However when I opened the URL on my post it produced a registration section before you could read the article, hence I decided to delete it because I thought some would not wish to register so in essence it wasn't available generally

In addition, the article was dated December 2017, so (hopefully) by now things should be well on as it's supposed to be completed by Spring 2018 according to the blurb.

Hope that explains things a bit better !

Paul pdg1949
 

8A Rail

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Thank you for your explanation and you are correct with your observation. Interestingly, your original thread message arrived via my e/mail address with the link and I got straight to the page in question. However, pressing the 'link' now in this thread and you dont access it. A bit strange to say the least but as you stated now, you need to register to access it. Sorry to other members for confusion.
 

snowball

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Some sorts of paywall allow you to access a link the first time but use cookies to prevent subsequent accesses. Deleting cookies may help.
 
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