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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

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175001

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Some shots of the Moss for you. Some parts are done, whilst others are untouched!

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Great to see it coming along though.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Some shots of the Moss for you. Some parts are done, whilst others are untouched!
Great to see it coming along though.

Good pictures - it's not as easy from the passenger seats!

It seems to me that there are going to be quite a lot of L-shaped structures over the Moss (eg between the M60/62).
They seem to have piled on one side of the track only and then put up these large lattice structures spanning both tracks, as in your last photo.
On my last trip it seemed that the last bits with no foundations (east of Glazebury) had finally been done.
The "Culcheth-Kenyon" wires are a good 2 miles in length, almost reaching Parkside, and I guess the next thing is to link the western end with the old WCML wires.
 

Class83

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Would something like this from Lime Street work

2TPH (semi)fast to Preston potentially extending to Blackpool/Scotland
2TPH slow to Wigan
2TPH TPX Manchester via chat moss
2TPH slow to Manchester via Chat Moss
1TPH EMT Norwich via Warrington
1TPH semi fast to Manchester Airport via Warrington
2TPH slow to Manchester via Warrington

Assuming that the Preston and Manchester fasts were on a 15 minute clockface timetable then if the Wigan slows went straight after the Preston fasts and the Manchester slows after the TPX trains should allow everything to clear Huyton Junction before the next fast catches it.

Moving the Airport Train to the Warrington Line would help maintain a reasonable service to the stations which are losing the TPX service.
 

Welshman

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Yes - thank you 175001 for posting those pictures.


The mixed use of individual "L" shaped supports over each track and lattice supports over both tracks but grounded at one side only is interesting.

Is this simply because of ground conditions in the immediate area, or are there other reasons why one is better/more desirable than the other?
 
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Bevan Price

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I don't think we should dismiss increasing the frequency of some if the stopper services at some point in the future. Certainly for the Liverpool area, most Merseyrail branches have 4tph and if the 'City Line' was also a proper Merseyrail line, then I don't see how it would be different. I would suspect that the low frequency at many of the stations, particularly at night, puts people off and so they choose buses instead. Poor quality rolling stock that is crowded in the peak time probably doesn't help either. Once electrification comes, it may well be that more people are attracted to the services. Of course, one big difference between these stoppers and Merseyrail is that fast trains pick up passengers at the busier stations, so I appreciate it's not exactly the same.

The busiest section is Liverpool to Huyton, and in daytime, that has stopping trains every 15 minutes, plus the hourly Liverpool - Blackpool semi-fasts. I would agree that evening and sunday services need to be improved. During shopping hours on Sunday, there are frequently standing passengers between Huyton & Liverpool with only 2 trains per hour, and there can be gross overcrowding if there is a major event or football match in Liverpool.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Some shots of the Moss for you. Some parts are done, whilst others are untouched! Great to see it coming along though.

Great pictures -thanks for posting. Although I now live in Kansas City USA, I was born in the NorthWest of UK and lived 43 years of my life there. The NW sparks and improvements I am extremely interested in and am following with great interest.
 

HSTEd

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Are those the autotransformer cables above the primary cantilevers?

Putting them there looks very wierd, I prefer the look of mounting them to the back of the masts, but I suppose that causes horizontal clearance issues.
 

ole man

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Looks like it, won't be Return conductor on insulators that big, and can't be earth wire on pots, it's series 1 or 2 design, not had much to do with it
 

25Kv

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Are those the autotransformer cables above the primary cantilevers?

Putting them there looks very wierd, I prefer the look of mounting them to the back of the masts, but I suppose that causes horizontal clearance issues.

Yep they are Auto Transformer Feeder Cables. The positioning is in keeping with European practice' and reduces the overall electrification envelope. Looks nice...
 

9K43

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It took around 3 + years to do Skipton/Ilkley/Bradford/Leeds and Neville Hill.
I know this cos the work was done by Healey Mills Train Crew, and the Trains came from Doncaster.
 

Peter Gl

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I was stood on Patricroft station this morning and could see three different types of gantries. What's the difference between the types, I just thought they were steel girders welded/bolted together to hold up the wires?

Pete
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I was stood on Patricroft station this morning and could see three different types of gantries. What's the difference between the types, I just thought they were steel girders welded/bolted together to hold up the wires?

Pete

The project is still unfolding, but there are a variety of structures depending on the ground conditions and forces acting on the OHL.
The simplest arrangement is a thin post and cantilever over each track, but that seems to be used only in the most favourable conditions (the western end of the line has a lot of these).
There is a lot of larger L-shaped stuff going up, with a heavy lattice post and cantilever over both tracks - maybe the ground conditions are poor on one side.
This dominates around Eccles and over Chat Moss itself.
The even bigger stuff is often positioned to support extra switchgear or the termination point of a wire run (carrying tensioning weights etc).
These crop up regularly along the route.
Then at significant junctions, there are massive portal structures over all tracks.
There are about 12 of these across Ordsall Lane Jn, and some for the Weaste branch at Eccles (anywhere with multiple tracks, basically).
Track curvature brings other complications, but the Chat Moss line is practically straight except for the junctions at both ends.

My guess is that this scheme is more "heavy duty" than would have been used in the past, to give a more robust system.
Given this is the first scheme with the new design, it's very important that the design "works" and gets completed on time and budget or it will impact all the later schemes.
 

HSTEd

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I think there is definitely an element of wanting to "prove" all the different types of equipment that are in this new toolbox.

So we might see a lot more of the unusual types than we will see on the later schemes, since they want to gather data on them all and thus needs lots of every type.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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After a gap of 3 months or so, another stretch of OHLE wiring has appeared at Weaste, just east of Eccles station.
Looks like the whole stretch from Ordsall Lane to the M60 bridge is ready for wiring.
Further west, they are working on the last mast foundations over the Moss, which are enormous reinforced concrete things at least a metre square, mostly well down embankments.
There are about 50 of them on each side of the track, seemingly in the most difficult ground.
Still nothing to see on Phase 2 west of Earlestown, other than ground preparation for the Huyton loop.
BB will have to get a move on to finish in December next year.
No doubt the recent weather hasn't helped.
 

DJH1971

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I noticed this Saturday gone that the wiring between Kenyon to Glazebury has now extended a bit to just before Parkside Junction.

I also saw some work going on at Earlestown (just to the west going towards St Helens Junction and Liverpool) and saw quite a few of what looked like concrete bags all lumped together in square blocks.

Wonder if they are about to start work around there?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I noticed this Saturday gone that the wiring between Kenyon to Glazebury has now extended a bit to just before Parkside Junction.

I also saw some work going on at Earlestown (just to the west going towards St Helens Junction and Liverpool) and saw quite a few of what looked like concrete bags all lumped together in square blocks.

Wonder if they are about to start work around there?

That seems to be a new cable route for the grid power supplies going in at Newton-le-Willows.
The troughing goes east and west from NLW, not sure how far it will go.
 

76020

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This is from the Rail Engineer last year
Phase 1 of the project is to be fully commissioned during September 2013. Following a period of driver training, the line will be ready in December 2013 to make history once again when the first electric trains run from Manchester Airport along the route to its connection with the West Coast Mainline.

The Phase 2 works are now at the detailed design stage, with commissioning of the scheme scheduled for August 2014 when, for the first time, electric trains will run on George Stephenson’s Liverpool to Manchester route.

Another thing is what is rolling stock is going to run on Phase 2, Manchester to Liverpool. There is still no word on the new Thameslink rolling stock, so no
Class 319's for the North West.
 
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steverailer

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heard that changes are afoot on the job, a firm are being brought in just to do the wire runs. Apparently they can do the job twice as fast as the current crew, the current crew will be just erecting the structures and cantalevers in prep for the wiring crew
 

DJH1971

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heard that changes are afoot on the job, a firm are being brought in just to do the wire runs. Apparently they can do the job twice as fast as the current crew, the current crew will be just erecting the structures and cantalevers in prep for the wiring crew


Where did you hear this?
 

Chris125

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Another thing is what is rolling stock is going to run on Phase 2, Manchester to Liverpool. There is still no word on the new Thameslink rolling stock, so no Class 319's for the North West.

Thankfully this situation was addressed last year, the extra units ordered by Southern should make it possible to release 319's for the North West even with delays to Thameslink.

Chris
 

DJH1971

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From people working on the job at the minute

Has to say it makes sense. I think the Chat Moss area has been a bit of a stumbling point, although many more masts are up than of late.

I've a feeling that the wiring between Glazebury to Parkside Junction will be extended shortly to Golborne Junction.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's the fact that Phase 2 is twice the size of Phase 1 which is worrying.
Castlefield-Parkside etc is 15 miles, and so is Earlestown-Olive Mount, but they also have to do a similar distance Huyton-Springs Branch plus the complicated mile or so from Ordsall Lane to Victoria.
It's not the wiring which is too slow, it's the foundation and mast work.
 

YorkshireBear

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It's the fact that Phase 2 is twice the size of Phase 1 which is worrying.
Castlefield-Parkside etc is 15 miles, and so is Earlestown-Olive Mount, but they also have to do a similar distance Huyton-Springs Branch plus the complicated mile or so from Ordsall Lane to Victoria.
It's not the wiring which is too slow, it's the foundation and mast work.

Phase 2 doesn't have the Chat Moss. From conversations with NR that is the reason.
 

WatcherZero

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Line possesions for testing and commisioning scheduled for 1st / 2nd June and the 22nd / 23rd June.
 

DJH1971

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I've heard on the NW Sparks webpage that mast bases have now started appearing between Huyton to Eccleston Park, on the Huyton to Wigan stretch of the line.
 
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