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Manchester Metrolink master thread

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Muzer

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If you go to

www.traveline-northwest.co.uk

and click on 'Timetables', and then enter MET1, MET2, MET3, MET4 or MET5 as the bus number you can see some kind of timetable for each line. Whether this is comparable to the WTT, it would be interesting to know. Regardless, I wouldn't rely on any timetable as the priority is to maintain the 12/15 minute headway.
Ah, thanks!

I have the old WTT which was published after Shaw opened (Dec 12) but I've never got hold of any others. The new WTT came out when Ashton ghosting started but I've not seen a hard copy of it

Hmm, shame. The main reason is just to figure out which services I was actually on at which points.




https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/manchester_metrolink_working_tim

Hmm, presumably this is an old one (I'm pretty sure things have changed since February). Good to see it's possible to request them, though. I find it interesting that there doesn't seem to be a way to identify specific services (something analogous to headcode+TOC on mainline rail or line+train number+trip number on the tube).
 
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Manchester77

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That's the one I have. Tram spotters (like me) tend to identify trams by which units operating them so we'd be like 3057, 3058, 3009 & 3001 are operating media city's today! As you say it would be good if the was like MC3 was the 09:12 tram operating PIC-MCUK
 

Shrimper

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Not likely - don't forget January will see Victoria go down to a single line which is going to be a significant re-cast!
 

Shrimper

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Metrolink have started putting maps like that out for engineering work, so it wouldn't surprise me!
 

Manchester77

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Quite they're taking quite a bit of inspiration from London by the looks of things with their retro posters and decent engineering maps!
 

Polo Mint

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Metrolink vehicles don't meet crash-worthiness standards to work the same line as mainline trains.

You need special vehicles that are both strong enough to interwork with trains, and light enough with a small turn radius to operate on Metrolink lines (potentially not on street running sections).

Personally, I'm not convinced that the concept is sound or that the vehicles will be good value for money at all.


The crashworthiness issue can be mitigated by changes to the signalling, including more TPWS so that a SPAD-related collision goes from highly unlikely to virtually impossible.

Tram-train isn't a solution everywhere but it has potential on some routes in Manchester. TfGM is developing a strategy on whether and how to take it forward.

I don't know much about the technical side of things but if in theory it was possible could it run on major existing rail lines alongside trains, such as Stockport to Manchester or the Hyde to Manchester line? Would it be possible to have a tram-train system use the East Lancs line from Bury up to Rawtenstall or to Heywood?

The London and North Western Railway were particularly strong in this area and quite a number of passenger routes were available, together with many goods trains from the collieries of the South-East Lancashire coalfield.

I will cite another of the routes (the Tyldesley loop line) used by that company that branched off the Liverpool and Manchester Railway at Eccles with stations as being:-

Eccles
Monton Green
Worsley
Ellenbrook
Tyldesley
Leigh
Pennington
Kenyon Junction

That particular one served the railway station of Leigh.

Thanks for your explanations. :)
 

HSTEd

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Top speed of a tram train is apparently only 60mph.
Rather slow for significant use on significant routes.
 

WatcherZero

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I.e. ideal for 75mph max linespeed routes taking into account acceleration and distance between stops.
 

edwin_m

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Also a tram-train is shorter than a train so you probably don't want to use them on the really busy lines like Stockport-Manchester. They can run in multiple but would then be too longer for the platforms in the city centre.

Tram-train on the East Lancs has also been investigated but would have to be a diesel vehicle. The East Lancs would want the freedom to operate heritage services at the hours they do now and preserve the heritage character of the route, so any tram-train would be not much more than a few workings in the peak.
 

HSTEd

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They are only really useful for converting minor branch lines.

But they tend to require (in most cases) electrification of the route in question, even using tram style equipment, which is likely to make a British Government loathe to spend anything on infrastructure baulk at funding them.
 

Rhydgaled

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We're drifting a bit off the Metrolink topic onto tram-trains, but I have an example of where I think a dual-voltage low-floor tram-train would be useful.

You have a frequent city-centre tram network, with a fast heavy rail route passing close to the city outskirts with some stations (including some rather infrequently served halts) which are not ideally sited for the villages/small towns they serve. My idea is that a tram-train (possibly on an hourly frequency, rather than the 6-minute frequency of the trams) could extend from the city-centre tram lines onto the heavy rail line, with new street-running loops constructed to better serve the towns/villages and allowing the minor halts on the heavy rail route to be closed. Sections using heavy rail would be electrified using conventional heavy rail OHLE voltages, providing partial electrification of heavy rail route to improve the case for later full electrification.
 

pemma

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We're drifting a bit off the Metrolink topic onto tram-trains, but I have an example of where I think a dual-voltage low-floor tram-train would be useful.

You have a frequent city-centre tram network, with a fast heavy rail route passing close to the city outskirts with some stations (including some rather infrequently served halts) which are not ideally sited for the villages/small towns they serve. My idea is that a tram-train (possibly on an hourly frequency, rather than the 6-minute frequency of the trams) could extend from the city-centre tram lines onto the heavy rail line, with new street-running loops constructed to better serve the towns/villages and allowing the minor halts on the heavy rail route to be closed. Sections using heavy rail would be electrified using conventional heavy rail OHLE voltages, providing partial electrification of heavy rail route to improve the case for later full electrification.

Are you thinking of any lines in particular where your idea would work?

It's been suggested tram-trains could run between Greenbank station and central Manchester via Sale. However, in that case I can't see any benefit of 'closing' the lightly used Ashley station. If you start diverting off the current route in villages then it'll slow down the service too much and add very little benefit to the villagers - the new stop may be closer to some villager's houses but be further away from other villager's houses and it'll also need a lot of road widening to allow trams to run on the street. I can however see the benefit of conventional trains running between Chester and Manchester missing out Ashley and tram-trains calling there but that wouldn't reduce the maintenance costs of Ashley station in any way.

What there would be a benefit to doing is building a road tram-train route onward from Greenbank station to Hartford station to make onward connections easier.

And regardless Metrolink uses high floor trams so any examples in the Manchester area wouldn't use low floor trams.
 
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Rhydgaled

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Are you thinking of any lines in particular where your idea would work?

It's been suggested tram-trains could run between Greenbank station and central Manchester via Sale. However, in that case I can't see any benefit of 'closing' the lightly used Ashley station. If you start diverting off the current route in villages then it'll slow down the service too much and add very little benefit to the villagers - the new stop may be closer to some villager's houses but be further away from other villager's houses and it'll also need a lot of road widening to allow trams to run on the street. I can however see the benefit of conventional trains running between Chester and Manchester missing out Ashley and tram-trains calling there but that wouldn't reduce the maintenance costs of Ashley station in any way.

What there would be a benefit to doing is building a road tram-train route onward from Greenbank station to Hartford station to make onward connections easier.

And regardless Metrolink uses high floor trams so any examples in the Manchester area wouldn't use low floor trams.
My specific idea is not in the Manchester area, I'm talking about the Swansea area. Since no current tram links exist in that area there would be no problem with the trams and tram-trains being low-floor. If you want more details of my idea I can provide them, but since it's off topic I'll say no more for now.
 

edwin_m

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We're drifting a bit off the Metrolink topic onto tram-trains, but I have an example of where I think a dual-voltage low-floor tram-train would be useful.

You have a frequent city-centre tram network, with a fast heavy rail route passing close to the city outskirts with some stations (including some rather infrequently served halts) which are not ideally sited for the villages/small towns they serve. My idea is that a tram-train (possibly on an hourly frequency, rather than the 6-minute frequency of the trams) could extend from the city-centre tram lines onto the heavy rail line, with new street-running loops constructed to better serve the towns/villages and allowing the minor halts on the heavy rail route to be closed. Sections using heavy rail would be electrified using conventional heavy rail OHLE voltages, providing partial electrification of heavy rail route to improve the case for later full electrification.

That's similar to some of the tram-train routes around Karlsruhe in particular. So possible in principle though whether it would work under British attitudes to funding and risk may be a different story.
 

Boysteve

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If you go to

www.traveline-northwest.co.uk

and click on 'Timetables', and then enter MET1, MET2, MET3, MET4 or MET5 as the bus number you can see some kind of timetable for each line. Whether this is comparable to the WTT, it would be interesting to know. Regardless, I wouldn't rely on any timetable as the priority is to maintain the 12/15 minute headway.

Some of these are wildly unrealistic! For example;
Exchange Quay to Cornbrook in 2 minutes, should be 4.
Bury to Radcliffe in 2 minutes, nearer 4 also.
...but then lots of slack on the line to East Didsbury!

What is completely nuts is the following;

Rochdale Train Station 10:57
Newbold 11:01

BUT ON A SINGLE LINE
Newbold 10:58
Rochdale Train Station 11:02

I am 100% confident that I could create a more realistic timetable than the 'professionals' at Metrolink, they should be embarresed! Wanna give me a job? e-mail me at [email protected]
 

hughesfowler

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Boysteve,

I could not agree with you more , the time table is not realistic. First tram in a morning of radcliffe to Bury is 0550 but then same tram has to be back at Radcliffe for 0601, it just does not happen.

Then it gets to Woodlands rd and sits there for 5 minutes minumum while other trams come of the depot, average journey time is getting to 35 to 40 minutes to get to Pic gardens in a morning on that service.

Not forgetting the staff stop at queens rd, but of course that will become a passenger stop soon.

The regular commuters on that tram are getting very annoyed and its not really suitable for a 21st century transport system.
 

Shrimper

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The drivers' duty card doesn't list every stop, so some of the intermediate ones are irrelevant for time keeping purposes. Generally the aim seems to be to ensure trams get to the main junctions to time (Irk Valley, Trafford Bar and Cornbrook) to maintain the flow through the delta junction in Piccadilly Gardens.

The SML/ORL does appear to have a lot of slack though I've heard it rumoured that this is so that the additional extensions can be served within the current timetable.
 

Manchester77

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The new timetable for the EML to Ashton haas a stupid amount of slack between Ashton and Droylsden, 14 minutes I think is the total time
 

Manchester77

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Perhaps with the traffic lights it would make some sense however iirc someone posted that trams wait at Droylsden for about 4 minutes to make up for the slack.
 

familyguy99

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Good news for Rochdale as tram testing to Rochdale town centre will begin this weekend and daylight testing should start from mid of November. :)

Tram tests on Rochdale town centre Metrolink line

The first overnight tram tests on the Metrolink line to the new Rochdale town centre stop are set to start this weekend.

From Saturday 2 November for around three weeks trams will run on the line overnight under a police escort. Some road junctions will be restricted for very short periods of time and noise will be kept to a minimum.

The overnight test trams will be seen further along the route as they turn back at the Milnrow stop.

Daytime tram tests will follow, but during the testing period the tram service is not open to the public. People can continue to use the road and pedestrian crossings as normal.

Passenger services from Rochdale railway station through to the new town centre stop will open next year.


Councillor Andrew Fender, Chair of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee, said: “This is a crucial stage in getting Metrolink up-and-running to Rochdale town centre as we start an extensive programme of testing on this on-street route.

“We know people are really looking forward to having trams run through the town centre. While there’s still a lot of work to go, including extensive driver training on the route, I look forward to seeing passenger services up and running as soon as possible.”

Councillor Peter Williams, Cabinet Member for Economic Development at Rochdale Borough Council, said: “The fact that Metrolink is a step closer is fantastic news.

“This is one of many changes taking place which are set to transform our town centre in the coming months and we’re really excited about the transformation which is taking place.”

http://www.tfgm.com/Corporate/media_centre/Pages/News.aspx?articleId=338
 

hughesfowler

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The bus won this morning , that first tram in a morning is just not an acceptable service anymore. The delays near queens rd are ridiculous.
 
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As a Rochdale native (albeit long exiled in Yorkshire) my observation of Metrolink when I go on it is that its so very slow.

The old Rochdale, Milnrow, Newhey, Shaw, Mumps, Piccadilly service used to get a shift on, the replacement tram seems to take an eternity to do the same trip. Okay so there are more trams an hour so a commuter gets more choice. But on an extended journey time and increased £

Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 2
 

Manchester77

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As a Rochdale native (albeit long exiled in Yorkshire) my observation of Metrolink when I go on it is that its so very slow.

The old Rochdale, Milnrow, Newhey, Shaw, Mumps, Piccadilly service used to get a shift on, the replacement tram seems to take an eternity to do the same trip. Okay so there are more trams an hour so a commuter gets more choice. But on an extended journey time and increased £

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- It went to Victoria not Piccadilly
- That's because not all trains called at every stop, metrolink does. If it's so slow why don't you take the tram to Rochdale Railway Station and then the heavy rail service to Victoria.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The bus won this morning , that first tram in a morning is just not an acceptable service anymore. The delays near queens rd are ridiculous.

Probably due to getting all the none ATS fitted trams out
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The SML/ORL does appear to have a lot of slack though I've heard it rumoured that this is so that the additional extensions can be served within the current timetable.

As well as waiting at conflicting junctions. As well it may have been done to allow a 6 minute frequency to be slotted into it without much modification.
 
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radamfi

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If it's so slow why don't you take the tram to Rochdale Railway Station and then the heavy rail service to Victoria.

If you allow about 10 minutes between getting on a tram at Milnrow and getting on a train in Rochdale then the tram+train combination would be quicker. But virtually no one does that because the fare would be much higher, and there would be less chance of a seat from Rochdale in the morning peak.
 

Manchester77

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Manchester Metrolink Signal Type Map November 2013:

Manchester Metrolink Signalling Type Map Nov 13 by Manchester_77, on Flickr

Link to Larger Image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/10628305983/sizes/k/

The key to colours is:
- Dark Green coloured lines indicate where TMS is in operation (some modifications may have to be made at Piccadilly and Victoria)
- Light Green coloured lines show where TMS is currently being commissioned (Some changes may be made at Old Trafford)
- Orange indicates lines which are Line of Site running a modified TMS type program which allows PIDs to operate.
- Black is the conventional block signalled lines.
- Purple is an unopened line (note the airport line may be subject to changes where Crossovers are so none have been included because I'm not sure!)

Also corrected any errors made in previous versions!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have arranged the layouts into sets so this post isn't massive :)
Oldham & Rochdale Line
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/sets/72157637239575333/
Altrincham Line
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/sets/72157637239575343/
Bury Line
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/sets/72157637239575363/
City Centre + Cornbrook
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/sets/72157637239575453/
Eccles Line + MediaCity
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/sets/72157637239575473/
East Manchester Line
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/sets/72157637239575493/
South Manchester Line
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/sets/72157637239575313/
Full Map (Including Airport Line not included in mini maps because its incorrect and I don't really know what crossovers will be installed)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester77/10634847943/
 
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