Manchester Metrolink (Non speculative discussion)

[Tim33160]

The original thread has been closed - so this is to kick start discussion/comment

I am told the current peak vehicle requirement is 107 trams for the network - from a fleet of 147.
From January, this rises to 117 as the system recovers from covid - both in passenger numbers and staff recruitment

Could this be the return of the Etihad - Media City peak service? or more doubling up on existing lines??

According to British trams on line http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/fleets/manchester.html there are a number of trams under longterm repair:
3005 (last ran February 2020), 3015 (last ran January 2021), 3027 (last ran May 2019), and 3100 (last ran July 2022) are out of service long-term requiring repairs before returning to action. 3027 and 3100 are at Queens Road Depot with all others at Trafford Depot.
Two trams have rejoined the available fleet at the end of July: 3099 was the first to return to action and was followed quite quickly by 3065.
http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=50439

 

[Tramfan]

Possibly includes the extension of the Trafford Centre line through to Crumpsall?

 

[507 001]

Etihad to Media services are returning first, and not before time! The TPL extension to Crumpsall is slated for early next year.

Also returning will be late night Friday and Saturday services, but not sure of exact details yet.

 

[Tramfan]

That sounds positive, last couple of times I visited, the Eccles trams seemed very busy

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That sounds positive, last couple of times I visited, the Eccles trams seemed very busy

The Eccles line has not been what the power-that-be had hoped for, especially in the last year or so.

 

[507 001]

That sounds positive, last couple of times I visited, the Eccles trams seemed very busy

They usually are during the day, at least as far as MCUK.

 

[IceBlue]

Etihad to Media services are returning first, and not before time! The TPL extension to Crumpsall is slated for early next year.

Also returning will be late night Friday and Saturday services, but not sure of exact details yet.

Do you know the timeframe for the MCUK to Etihad returning if it's due before the end of the year? As soon as after the Eccles works are complete?

 

[JJmoogle]

Good news to hear

Was there a plan to extend the Bury and/or Altrincham services somewhere down the Ashton line(Etihad?) from Piccadilly or am I misremembering the past?

 

[507 001]

Do you know the timeframe for the MCUK to Etihad returning if it's due before the end of the year? As soon as after the Eccles works are complete?

Sometime after the Eccles work is complete.

Good news to hear

Was there a plan to extend the Bury and/or Altrincham services somewhere down the Ashton line(Etihad?) from Piccadilly or am I misremembering the past?

No, the Ashton line had a 6 minute service for a period prior to the pandemic. This was achieved by extending the MCUK-Etihad services.

The Alt-Piccs are planned to run to the Etihad on match days in future (where possible).

 

[iknowyeah]

No chance of the early morning airports coming back? They're a lifesaver on earlies

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No chance of the early morning airports coming back? They're a lifesaver on earlies

Are those the ones that started from Firswood around 0300 for the use of people who work on early shifts at the airport?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Are those the ones that started from Firswood around 0300 for the use of people who work on early shifts at the airport?

Correct.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Local Link runs in this area 24/7. Is this any use?

I always felt like Metrolink was overkill and probably had a high level of fare evasion. Definitely should be a bus at the minimum!

 

[507 001]

No chance of the early morning airports coming back? They're a lifesaver on earlies

Nothing official but I highly doubt they’ll return.

 

[geoffk]

They usually are during the day, at least as far as MCUK.

I moved away from the area 2 years ago. Is Media City UK now just served as a double-run on the Eccles service? The map suggests it is and of course there's (still) no proper timetable!

 

[185]

Nothing official but I highly doubt they’ll return.

I feel sorry for the genuine customers who relied those early airports, but I seem to recall the 3 one-off very early revenue operations on that line - many weren't paying. The number of fines per day was in the hundreds, many trying to walk off in their employers full uniform - I recall on one, our two cops walking Captain Birdseye complete with his pilots case back to the platform for a fine.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Would the Trafford Park to Crumpsall service use the Second City Crossing, as from experience last year I'm not sure the original route through Market Street and Shudehill can take many more trams.

On a similar tangent, are there any plans or ideas to four track Trafford Bar to St. Peters Square, as sometimes it seems like a conveyor belt of trams on this section. Admittedly the real bottleneck is St. Peters Square to Deansgate but that seems prohibitively expensive if not impossible to sort.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

On a similar tangent, are there any plans or ideas to four track Trafford Bar to St. Peters Square, as sometimes it seems like a conveyor belt of trams on this section. Admittedly the real bottleneck is St. Peters Square to Deansgate but that seems prohibitively expensive if not impossible to sort.

I feel like that would not be easy to do, especially with how much is elevated on ancient viaducts.

 

[507 001]

Would the Trafford Park to Crumpsall service use the Second City Crossing, as from experience last year I'm not sure the original route through Market Street and Shudehill can take many more trams.

On a similar tangent, are there any plans or ideas to four track Trafford Bar to St. Peters Square, as sometimes it seems like a conveyor belt of trams on this section. Admittedly the real bottleneck is St. Peters Square to Deansgate but that seems prohibitively expensive if not impossible to sort.

First question:- nobody knows yet.

Second question:- no. It would be pointless. You’d still end up with a bottleneck, with no actual benefits from a considerable amount of expense.

 

[Chester1]

Would the Trafford Park to Crumpsall service use the Second City Crossing, as from experience last year I'm not sure the original route through Market Street and Shudehill can take many more trams.

On a similar tangent, are there any plans or ideas to four track Trafford Bar to St. Peters Square, as sometimes it seems like a conveyor belt of trams on this section. Admittedly the real bottleneck is St. Peters Square to Deansgate but that seems prohibitively expensive if not impossible to sort.

The bottleneck is Deansgate to St Peter's Square. The street section was originally designed as four tracks but was reduced to three after it was decided four tracks would cause damage to neighbouring buildings (one of which is historic). The two track section would require massive expenditure to resolve. Four track from Trafford Bar to Deansgate wouldn't make a difference because this section already has a higher maximum capacity than any potential upgrade to Deansgate to St Peter's Square.

Usage is still below pre pandemic levels and financial sustainability is the current goal, not expansion. Future capacity increases could be provided by more doubled up sets. When building more units is necessary capacity could be increased by purpose built 60m sets. Double sets are 57m long, with space wasted by two redundant cabs and coupling. There is some capacity for extendint Piccadilly terminating services to the west or south e.g Piccadilly to Marple Rose Hill, or controversially to Glossop.

I feel like that would not be easy to do, especially with how much is elevated on ancient viaducts.

The dissused viaduct has been partially converted into an urban park by the National Trust. There are plans to extend it to make a pedestrian link between the River Irwell and the city centre.

 

[TheSmiths82]

The late weekend services will be a very welcome addition. I do wonder if it needs to be better advertised though and maybe staffed so avoid people who seem to think the "met is free".

Going back to the original topic, what will happen if Metrolink decide they need more trams now that the production line is closed? I assume they will just order the Flexity 2s? The current Swifts were out of date even when they were first introduced and despite some of them only being a year old they do feel a bit dated now.

I assume some sort of refurbishment will need to happen at some point.

 

[507 001]

The bottleneck is Deansgate to St Peter's Square.

It’s also worth pointing out that this so called bottleneck doesn’t actually exist in reality. It flows quite well.

Going back to the original topic, what will happen if Metrolink decide they need more trams now that the production line is closed? I assume they will just order the Flexity 2s? The current Swifts were out of date even when they were first introduced and despite some of them only being a year old they do feel a bit dated now.

There is no high floor flexity2 per se. Köln now have the HF6 which is essentially a modernised M5000. There’s also likely to be a tram-train fleet in the not too distant future.

 

[Chester1]

It’s also worth pointing out that this so called bottleneck doesn’t actually exist in reality. It flows quite well.

Yes it flows well at the current service level, just like the rest of the network. It is the limiting factor for future growth, with a lower maximum capacity than Cornbrook to Deansgate.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The Eccles line has not been what the power-that-be had hoped for, especially in the last year or so.

Maybe it would make sense to build an extension through to Irlam and Cadishead?

 

[Geeves]

It’s also worth pointing out that this so called bottleneck doesn’t actually exist in reality. It flows quite well.



There is no high floor flexity2 per se. Köln now have the HF6 which is essentially a modernised M5000. There’s also likely to be a tram-train fleet in the not too distant future.

The U5 50 in Frankfurt seems like a logical step for the future Metrolink fleet making the trains up two 4 cars with the two middle cabs removed but the connection isn't above a Jacobs style bogie to ease with splitting for maintenance. Frankfurt are looking at going even further and going for an U5 100, the 100 being the full length of the tram. A beast!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe it would make sense to build an extension through to Irlam and Cadishead?

Similar aspiration to that has been often expressed on different websites for building an extension to Stalybridge from Ashton-under-Lyne, but no mention is ever made concerning the finance required to achieve those aims.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Similar aspiration to that has been often expressed on different websites for building an extension to Stalybridge from Ashton-under-Lyne, but no mention is ever made concerning the finance required to achieve those aims.

True, I suspect that there would be major issues with fare dodging on an Irlam extension as well.

 

[Chester1]

Maybe it would make sense to build an extension through to Irlam and Cadishead?

I don't think it would have substantially helped. The biggest problem past Salford Quays is competition with buses. The line is good for journeys from both ends to Salford Quays but isn't competitive for end to end journeys. An Irlam and Cadishead extension would just be for seving Media City too. The only reason the line ever reached Eccles was because the EU paid for most of the cost and TfGM were happy to take free money. I don't think it was a good decision by the EU. The line hasn't produced better regeneration outcome than a line terminating somewhere in Salford Quays.

 

[WatcherZero]

Eccles has gone from being a heavily deprived area to bang on the North West regional average so it looks to have actually been successful, its still slightly below average in health and crime but above average in education and with more affordable housing than average. The government actually turned it down for levelling up funding in 2022 by declaring it not deprived enough! (Category 2 when only Category 1 regions received funding that year)

 

[Tim33160]

Manchester: it's going to be busy on Saturday 26 August! Here's the headlines:

• football at Old Trafford
• Pride Parade in City centre
• Noel Gallagher at Wythenshawe Park

An amended service pattern will be in place to get you from A to B.

Basically trams every 15 mins (rather than every 12 minutes) with some extra services giving a 7.5 min service on some routes

Some shuttle buses from MUFC to city and from city and Sale to / from Wythenshawe Park

More info:

Disruption expected: Saturday 26 August​

Information about the events and disruption around Greater Manchester on 26 August and how to keep you moving by bus, tram, train, cycling and walking tfgm.com