Manchester Metrolink T68's Phased out

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by callum112233, 1 Nov 2011.

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  1. callum112233

    callum112233 Member

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    It was obviously inevitable that the old trams would eventually become extinct since the new Bombardier trams came onto the scene, but does anyone else feel that Metrolink could have chosen something a bit more appropriate to take over the old T68's?

    I think the new Bombardier trams have a bad interior design. For example, there are hardly ANY seats compared to the old T68's. They feel too empty and like there is something missing. I was reading that they are ten tonnes lighter than the T68's so therefore mire economical, but surely they are only ten tonnes lighter because of the minimal interior.

    Has anyone else got any views about Metrolink's new choice of tram?

    I also wonder if there is anyone who will preserve a T68, since it's quite an icon of the north west. :D
     
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  3. theblackwatch

    theblackwatch Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Manchester Museum of Science & Industry would be an ideal location to house one.
     
  4. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Many Metrolink users have complained about the reduction in the seating capacity per tram unit of the new 5000 series when compared to the T68 and the usual reply is that these trams are used on short journeys where the seating capacity is not important.

    That may well be true in the Manchester city centre, but such is their use at peak periods, journeys from Bury and Altrincham are not so comfortable in these trams for users. Soon, we will have journeys on the line to Oldham and Rochdale which is quite a lengthy journey, then soon after this the routes to Parrs Wood, Ashton under Lyne and Manchester Airport will be in operation.
     
  5. callum112233

    callum112233 Member

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    Maybe Metrolink's idea was that in peak hours, more people will fit on if they are stood up as opposed to being seated. Also a lot of elderly people tend to use the tram. I'm sure they won't be chuffed about potentially having to stand up all the way to Olham from Manchester. As you stated, it's quite a way to travel.
     
  6. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    the same school of thought that gave London the Bendybuses...
    Although to be fair, journeys were usually a bit shorter there.
     
  7. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    I think they were influenced a bit in layout by the Class 378 ordered at roughly the same time. Yes was designed for heavy peak crush loads rather than high density seating for offpeaks.
     
  8. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    I'm not a Manchester resident, so I've not as much experience of the trams as others, but must confess that when I do use them, I prefer the older, T68s to the newer ones. The T68s seem more solid and more spacious, and offer a greater chance of getting a seat. I think its a pity that Metrolink is thinking of replacing them before they are life-expired, and can't quite understand the economics of that, especially when Northern seem to be having to retain their pacers until 2019, or they rattle to bits [whichever comes sooner!].

    Incidentally, regarding preservation, IIRC the Manchester Museum of Transport on Boyle St houses the original T68 prototype, No. 1000.
     
  9. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Prototype is a strong word, its just half a bodyshell that was done as a mockup.
     
  10. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    The M5000 interior resembles a modern German tram more than a T68. Remember the Germans have different tram systems for different towns and cities and have S-Bahn and sometimes tram-train linking the towns and cities. You could easily find two German towns/cities as close to one another as Manchester and Stockport which both have their own tram network, opposed to the Metrolink approach of many towns sharing one system.
     
  11. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    Thank you for the correction - I was going on the memory of one visit! :oops:
     
  12. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    It was built and shipped over to demonstrate trams to the public (same as the mockup in Edinburgh) and so the PTE could approve the interior layout choices.
     
  13. callum112233

    callum112233 Member

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    That's a nice idea. Probably wouldn't happen though unless Metrolink donated it for free which seems fair enough, since they are going to be scrapped at the end of their service anyway.
    It would be a shame not to save one.
    They are quite an icon for the city.
     
  14. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    Oh, very much so, as the start (and perhaps most succesful) of the new generation tram systems in the UK.
     
  15. ChrisCooper

    ChrisCooper Established Member

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    Presumably Crich would want one too. A T68 and a Centenary would really show the modern development of the British Tram, the last of the traditional style trams and the first of the modern "Super Trams".
     
  16. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Crich organise at least one working a day with an accessible tram, should persons with disabilities be visiting. They currently use Berlin tram 3006 for that purpose but I imagine they'd be happy using a T68 in the future.
     
  17. Csalem

    Csalem Member

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    Was the Edinburgh one a mock up or the real thing? I know that when our Luas system was being built in Dublin, it was so far behind schedule that they were able to put a completed Citadis tram on display for people to view. Think that was around 01/02 and the system opened in 04... :)
     
  18. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    They shipped two, one was a mockup and a couple of years later the first production line one was shipped and put on display. The rest of the fleet has only just started to be delivered.
     
  19. bluegoblin7

    bluegoblin7 Member

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    T68s are high platform vehicles and would be completely unsuitable for operating at Crich.

    There are no plans to add one to the National Collection at the moment to the best of my knowledge.

    Finally, 3006 only runs as required - it is not out every day and there is only one accessible tram in the fleet. Your wording is rather ambiguous.

    Jack
     
  20. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    Well, there ought to be.
     
  21. ChrisCooper

    ChrisCooper Established Member

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    Wouldn't be suitable for operating, but could be a static exhibit.
     
  22. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    just out of curiosity, did tramways in the old days have a standard voltage? Metrolink is 750 v dc, I find, but what do they use at Crich? And did all tramway systems use the same voltage? There's trams from Blackpool, Leeds, London, Chesterfield, all over the place, aren't there. I know that some systems used different gauges, but were they technically all compatible?
     
  23. JoeGJ1984

    JoeGJ1984 Member

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    Are any of the T-68s still knocking about? And are they still in green livery?
     
  24. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    Green? Yes, none have been replaced yet? That would require extra trams?
     
  25. northernrail

    northernrail Member

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    There is no Green Livery...
     
  26. JoeGJ1984

    JoeGJ1984 Member

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    I thought that the trams were originally green until the new trams came out in yellow.:-?
     
  27. northernrail

    northernrail Member

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  28. JoeGJ1984

    JoeGJ1984 Member

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    They just have green/turquiose bits on them - I just remembered them as green (I only looked at that Wikipedia page just before posting the above:oops:).

    Anyway, are these still around? And the Wikipedia page shows them in yellow livery - were they ever any T-68s in yellow livery? (That's why I asked about the livery).
     
  29. northernrail

    northernrail Member

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    Yellow livery is what they will recieve, there all still around
     
  30. jamesontheroad

    jamesontheroad Established Member

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    Better than the mocked up 380 Scotrail displayed in Central Station last year (and now in the really expensive / really small Riverside Museum). They had comment cards for visitors to give feedback, even though the design had been completely signed off by then. Completely pointless as a consultation exercise.
     
  31. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    But it's good for PR
     
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