Manchester-South Wales stock

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Philip, 10 Oct 2017.

  1. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

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    It would probably be more appropriate to London Midland given they already have crews based in Worcester and Shrewsbury.

    A new service run by a different operator 'just because' is something I would caution against though. Ammending the existing stock and crew working to provide slightly quicker end-to-end times and fewer long gaps at intermediate stations is probably the most we can hope for. There are curretnly a number of 4 car 150 diagrams, so the scope to improve quality is certainly significant!
     
  2. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Indeed, I really don't see the point in allowing another operator in for no obvious reason, it just makes things less efficient. Lots of people have suggested the Crewe - Shrewsbury service should go to LM (indeed I've heard many a rumour suggesting it was a done deal) but I've never heard a single good reason why it would be worth the expense and upheaval of staff.

    Also, 150s are only booked on Sundays. Monday to Friday all Manchester-South Wales services are booked for 175s, with the exception of the 2017 Cardiff - Manchester, booked for 158. Even on a Saturday there's just the one diagram (0630 and 1930 from Manchester) booked for 158, everything else is booked 175.
     
  3. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

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    Sadly that one appears to be a politics game; no matter how much we are told that subsidy is high, revenue is low, costs are out of control, yadda, yadda, yadda... issues of political control still seem to be able to trump those of efficiency.
     
  4. 416GSi

    416GSi Member

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    I my view the slowest stretch is between Crewe and Shrewsbury. If the existing hourly Northern Manchester to Crewe all stations service was extended to Shrewsbury then the ATW service could run non-stop between Shrewsbury and Crewe it might take as much as 10 mins off the journey time.

    The issue is that the Manchester to Crewe all stations is currently operated by class 323's so either the Crewe to Shrewsbury section would need to be electrified or the whole service would need to go over to diesels.
     
  5. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Good luck finding another path each way across the WCML on the flat. In any case, during the day every second train currently runs non stop Crewe-Shrewsbury, it's really not worth the upheaval for a marginal gain.
     
  6. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Indeed, but thankfully sense has prevailed so far with no plans in the new West Midlands franchise to take over the Crewe- Shrewsbury local appearing. Long may that continue.
     
  7. iantherev

    iantherev Member

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    You are Chris Grayling and I claim my £5.
     
  8. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    But no suitable diesels are available that could match 323 performance between Manchester & Crewe. 769s certainly would not be able to keep time on these trains.
     
  9. embers25

    embers25 Established Member

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    deleted as already covered
     
  10. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    A sound combination of ideas IMO (New build stock on an accelerated Manchester - South Wales service, existing stock filling the gaps at intermediate stations on a Cardiff - Holyhead/Liverpool service in alternate hours). It's disappointing that, as mentioned, political agendas are more likely to force an unnecessary enhancement of the Holyhead - Cardiff service upon us, rather than providing more practical journey opportunities that are likely to benefit more current or prospective passengers.
     
    Last edited: 12 Oct 2017
  11. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    A move that will cost extra £ as well as crowding out improvements elsewhere and lead to fewer passengers and revenue. As has been pointed out ad nausea the market is trifling for such services (in the big picture of things), however other folk will be put off traveling as there services don't go where they want them to.
     
  12. Envoy

    Envoy Member

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    I would think that Caerleon should have the station re-built. The town has very poor road connections to Cardiff. In fact, many people use a terrible back-road that goes to Malpas in order to join the M4 west of the tunnel. Then we have the tourist potential of the Roman remains - which are not easy to reach on a confusing road network.

    Could not Church Stretton and Craven Arms be served with an enhanced Heart of Wales service? (Gaps of 4 hours on this line is excessive - even for a sparsely populated area). It is imperative that the next southbound Marches train stops at Craven Arms to pick up people who have come off the HoW. Likewise, the last north bound Marches line train prior to a southbound HoW, should stop at Craven Arms to drop people off.

    Last week (Tues) I travelled on the 9.21 Cardiff > Holyhead - which was a 3 car 175. It did not seem to be short of passengers and had it been a 2 car, would have be pretty crowded.
     
  13. Doctor Fegg

    Doctor Fegg Member

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    Yes, enhancing Shrewsbury-Llandod to 1tp2h would be a very worthwhile improvement in its own right, as well as taking up some of the demand from Church Stretton and Craven Arms. There was a thread on enhancing HOWL services earlier this year. (I don't think there's much case for continuing past Llandod, and the timetabling would get gnarly.) But you'd still need CS/CA stops in the southbound Marches trains for passengers travelling to Ludlow and Hereford, which is a significant number, so it's not a panacea.
     
  14. Envoy

    Envoy Member

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    You would get more demand for through trips on the HoW if people were aware of the price differentials! A return from Crewe to Llanelli (the system does not tell people about the HoW option) - only going via Birmingham & Bristol Parkway or using the Marches route via Cardiff) - costs £84.40 (pay on the day). A Crewe to Shrewsbury off peak return is £12.70 + a SHR to Llanelli return is £27.10 = £39.80 return saving a whopping £44.60. (It takes roughly 30 minutes longer via the HoW). If the line were modernised and all the halts taken out, it would no doubt be the quickest route as it is shorter.

    More tourist traffic would do the ‘Circuit of Southern Wales’ - if trains used the Swansea District Line instead of going via Llanelli. This would therefore also increase traffic on the Marches as it would knock around 40 minutes off doing the circuit.
    http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/pr259c57c35ce74100506efaeed80267.aspx

    What’s more, holders of Welsh bus passes can do the line for free during this winter:>https://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/ConcessionaryTravel/
     
    Last edited: 12 Oct 2017
  15. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham Established Member

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    The problem with that is that it gives very little access to trains from those in the southern Mid Wales catchment who use Ludlow and Leominster currently.
     
  16. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Caerleon appears on South Wales Metro maps - despite losing the uni campus its still a twon of c9K
     
  17. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Theirs no easy all inclusive answer with the Marches Graham as you say folk are coming up with what is effectively Rob Peter to pay Paul. Holyhead trains are a complication as public sector stakeholders in North Wales keep demanding there speed up and stops cut out.
     
  18. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    The line needs a wholesale resignalling to get the best out of it, you are hamstrung by all the absolute block signalling.
     
  19. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham Established Member

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    I can remember we were told that all the Boxes would be closed by this year....................
    and then 2020................
    and then....................
     
  20. Envoy

    Envoy Member

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    The signalling looks like nothing has altered since the Victorians built the line! Here I was assuming that everything was going to be modernised and work from the new Cardiff box. Abergavenny station still has an old footbridge with no disabled access to the southbound platform.

    I note that large areas of new housing are appearing in the Pontypool area. Pontypool Road/New Inn station is not marked from the A4042 and really should have a direct access P&R from this major highway. Anyway, I guess there is no point in doing anything that would encourage more passengers if you don’t have the trains to carry them - and they wonder why the traffic is so bad.
     
  21. headshot119

    headshot119 Established Member

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    There's a barrow crossing to allow disabled access.
     
  22. Envoy

    Envoy Member

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    Thanks headshot119.
     
  23. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham Established Member

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    That is exactly what we were told, and then the dates slipped.....................and slipped....................

    Disabled access at Abergavenny is via the barrow crossing.
     

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