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Mandatory 14 day quarantine to be introduced in the UK from 08/06/2020

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.......It was instructive seeing arrivals on TV at Manchester yesterday from a KLM flight, with no arrival checks and no social distancing on the "packed" flight.
At least they were wearing masks.

My son managed to return home to his workplace in Spain, two weeks ago, when Spain began the gradual easing up of restrictions.
He’d been stranded here in the U.K. since the beginning of March.
Entry to Spain is restricted and he had documentary paperwork to prove his eligibility to enter the country.

He had to fly from the U.K., via Düsseldorf in Germany, to Palma, involving an overnight stop at Düsseldorf.
Airline - Eurowings, a subsidiary of Lufthansa. For both flights.
The wearing of face masks was compulsory, however there was no attempt at socially distancing passengers.
His workmate travelling companion had a young couple allocated seats next to him On the LHR - DUS leg.


On arriving at Düsseldorf, passport control asked a few questions, looked at his paperwork and just waved him through.
No checks, no medical screening.
He left the airport terminal to stay in a nearby airport hotel.
He could have just vanished into Germany at large, if he’d wanted to.

Next day, he flew from Dusseldorf to Palma.
On arrival, passport control looked at his paperwork and there was a temperature checking device.
He went through with no hassle other than the queue to get to the passport check, which was much slower than normal.
No quarantine requirement other than voluntary.

As it was, his employer had arranged for both my son and his workmate to stay in a hotel in Palma, where they were to stay in isolation for 5 days, before taking a test that they had paid for. Once tested negative, they checked out and went back to their local homes.
The Spanish authorities had no idea where they were, once they’d passed through passport control.

The idea that the U.K. is the only European country that hasn’t got it act together over easing travel restrictions, is nonsense.
There are issues in many countries.
 
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Bantamzen

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I doubt the border people could be organised any quicker.
The immigration people, airlines and airports, and presumably quarantine police, will have to be briefed and trained, and some necessary IT set up and tested.

My perception is that they want a blanket quarantine rule to start with, to make sure everyone complies.
Then they will ease the quarantine rules bilaterally where states allow UK entry without quarantine (assuming the R rate is stable).
That's difficult with the EU who will insist on the same rule for all states (or at least for Schengen states).
France has kicked off by instituting a 14-day quarantine for UK arrivals - tit for tat.
It's very odd that the promised derogation (as for Ireland) was not agreed - that would have exempted Eurostar and ferries.
It feels like the Brexiteers' "hostile environment" to me.

The government behaves as though it's other countries which have higher infection rates and therefore pose a threat, whereas now it's mostly the reverse!

It was instructive seeing arrivals on TV at Manchester yesterday from a KLM flight, with no arrival checks and no social distancing on the "packed" flight.
At least they were wearing masks.

I must admit I have found myself wondering if the quarantine is just a poorly disguised swipe at the EU. "We're going to make it almost impossible for our citizens to spend their hard earned in your countries unless you give us what we want Brexit-wise...".

Cynical I know, but given that we are more of a risk at the moment than they are to us, I can't really come up with an alternative explanation.
 

JonathanP

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So let me get this straight. My friend who is Portuguese and had/has plans to visit in mid June, does NOT have to self isolate for 2 weeks as he is a carer and therefore a key worker, but his mate who is going with him, will have to self isolate for 2 weeks as he is not a key worker. None of them drive and will be using the Train to get to and from the airport.

Surely everyone must self isolate, especially so key workers?

Doesn't make much sense to me.

From my perspective, if there's one thing that defines British approach to Corona, it's the division of society into "Key Workers" and everyone else, who are subject to much more restrictions. I do wonder if that will have a corresponding economic impact when the dust settles.

He had to fly from the U.K., via Düsseldorf in Germany, to Palma, involving an overnight stop at Düsseldorf.
Airline - Eurowings, a subsidiary of Lufthansa. For both flights.
The wearing of face masks was compulsory, however there was no attempt at socially distancing passengers.
His workmate travelling companion had a young couple allocated seats next to him On the LHR - DUS leg.

On arriving at Düsseldorf, passport control asked a few questions, looked at his paperwork and just waved him through.
No checks, no medical screening.
He left the airport terminal to stay in a nearby airport hotel.
He could have just vanished into Germany at large, if he’d wanted to.

The idea that the U.K. is the only European country that hasn’t got it act together over easing travel restrictions, is nonsense.
There are issues in many countries.

Since April there was a law in Germany that anyone arriving by plane from abroad was required to go directly to their home or other abode and quarantine themselves for two weeks. Of course you could break the law if you wanted, but what would you expect them to do with people, put them in a holding cell?
However, last week a decision was made to end this. (at least this was the case in Berlin, NRW was probably similar). Instead there is a recommendation of quarantine if you came from a high risk area.

So, rightly or wrongly, I would say the current status in Germany is a deliberate decision, not a lack of organisation or absence of any decision at all. Bear in mind the virus is at quite a low level here currently. The focus is on "super spreader" events and high risk workplaces, not on individuals.
 

Mogster

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From my perspective, if there's one thing that defines British approach to Corona, it's the division of society into "Key Workers" and everyone else, who are subject to much more restrictions. I do wonder if that will have a corresponding economic impact when the dust settles.

As a key worker what have I been able to do that non key workers can’t? Other than go to work.
 

JonathanP

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Well, use public transport, special shopping times in certain supermarkets, and now special immigration rules.

Actually, you're right, I'm just writing a load of nonsense, aren't I? I guess it just seems like more a feeling that Key Workers are talked about a lot more, but actually it's utterly meaningless.
 

Chester1

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I must admit I have found myself wondering if the quarantine is just a poorly disguised swipe at the EU. "We're going to make it almost impossible for our citizens to spend their hard earned in your countries unless you give us what we want Brexit-wise...".

Cynical I know, but given that we are more of a risk at the moment than they are to us, I can't really come up with an alternative explanation.

I think there is some truth in what you say. Contary to what some Britain bashers are saying, there are several European countries keen on the return of British tourists this summer. We spend excessively on holiday and they are broke. Italy is allowing Brits in from 4th June. Greece, Spain, Portugal and Croatia appear to be following suit by end of July. I am fortunate that I can WFH during a 14 day quarantine so I will be going away in July. The agro it will cause between people who can quarantine and cannot will be another reason why 14 day quarantine will be short lived. The prospect of banning foreign holidays might be loved by an unholy alliance of little Englanders and environmentalists but its not going to happen. Even with 14 day quarantine and void travel insurance people will still go holiday on the continent. European Health Insurance Card reimbursements are a treaty obligation until end of this year. Portugal prior to covid-19 consulted on offering same terms to British tourists unilaterally if UK does not stay in EHIC next year. Only relatively rich european countries can afford to stop British tourists long term.
 

Peter Mugridge

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...there are several European countries keen on the return of British tourists this summer. We spend excessively on holiday and they are broke. Italy is allowing Brits in from 4th June. Greece, Spain, Portugal and Croatia appear to be following suit by end of July.

There is, however, not much point in them saying that unless the Foreign Office over here says we can travel again. At the moment the advice they are giving out is to avoid any non-essential travel to any other country anywhere in the world.
 

66701GBRF

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Well, use public transport, special shopping times in certain supermarkets, and now special immigration rules.

Actually, you're right, I'm just writing a load of nonsense, aren't I? I guess it just seems like more a feeling that Key Workers are talked about a lot more, but actually it's utterly meaningless.

"Key Workers" is such a broad term. Really only NHS or Care givers (and OAPs) get special shopping times. The rest queue up like everyone else. The new immigration rule regarding the two week quarantine also applies to many key workers that are not on the exception list. The majority of key workers on this board will probably find they are not exempt.
 

edwin_m

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Well, use public transport, special shopping times in certain supermarkets, and now special immigration rules.

Actually, you're right, I'm just writing a load of nonsense, aren't I? I guess it just seems like more a feeling that Key Workers are talked about a lot more, but actually it's utterly meaningless.
Key workers are, broadly speaking, those without whom nobody else would be able to live anything near a normal existence. That's not just NHS but less obvious groups such as utility workers and those working in food shops and their supply chains. It's only sensible to minimize the infection risk to those people. From what I gather of the quarantine rules they won't be exempted automatically but only if that journey into the UK is essential for their work, such as drivers bringing goods in or doctors travelling to deliver healthcare.

There's a larger group who aren't so essential but are still able to work and keep some parts of the economy going. Those people being infected cause extra economic damage but I don't think it would be morally right to give them priority over those who are pensioners, out of work, furloughed etc so ostensibly making no direct economic contribution (but may be doing voluntary work or acting as carers for family members).
There is, however, not much point in them saying that unless the Foreign Office over here says we can travel again. At the moment the advice they are giving out is to avoid any non-essential travel to any other country anywhere in the world.
Which I believe invalidates the insurance of anyone making such a journey.
 

The Ham

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And plus, with all the new screening technologies that airports around the world are developing (example: Hong Kong), I think these will probably do the job effectively without a need of a 14 day quarantine.

Unless it's changed in the last month the entry requirement was (IIRC) to be tested AND quarantine for 14 days.
 

Chester1

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There is, however, not much point in them saying that unless the Foreign Office over here says we can travel again. At the moment the advice they are giving out is to avoid any non-essential travel to any other country anywhere in the world.

There is a big point in them allowing Brits in because all the Foreign Office travel advice does in practice is void travel insurance. The media acts like it bans foreign holidays but it only makes them a bit harder. Plenty of people will go to European countries and rely on EHIC if they get ill. It depends on individuals risk thresholds.
 

LAX54

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Here is the list of people who will not need to lock themselves away for 14 days after arriving in, pr back in the UK.......
  • a road haulage worker and road passenger transport worker
  • a transit passenger, an individual transiting to a country outside of the Common Travel Area, who remains airside and does not pass border control
  • an individual arriving to attend pre-arranged treatment, when receiving that treatment in the UK. Healthcare means all forms of healthcare including mental and physical health. There are also exemptions for live donors and those accompanying the individual, for example a carer or a child
  • a registered health or care professional travelling to the UK to provide essential healthcare, including where this is not related to coronavirus
  • a person who has travelled to the UK for the purpose of transporting, to a healthcare provider in the UK, material which consists of, or includes, human cells or blood which are to be used for the purpose of providing healthcare
  • qualified persons and responsible persons for human medicines, clinical trials and pharmacovigilance
  • quality assurance inspectors for human medicines
  • sponsors and essential persons needed for clinical trials or studies
  • civil aviation inspectors engaged on inspection duties
  • Eurotunnel train drivers and crew, Eurotunnel Shuttle drivers, freight train drivers, crew and essential cross-border rail freight workers operating through the Channel Tunnel
  • a Euratom inspector
  • workers engaged in essential or emergency works, related to water supplies and sewerage services
  • workers engaged in essential or emergency works related to a generating system, an electricity interconnector, a district heat network, communal heating, automated ballast cleaning and track re-laying systems or network
  • a worker undertaking activities in offshore installations, upstream petroleum infrastructure, critical safety work on offshore installations and wells that are being decommissioned or which are being preserved pending demolition or reuse or activities for the provision of workers, goods, materials or equipment or in the provision of other essential services required to support the safe operation of activities
  • workers engaged in essential or emergency works, including those carried out by specialist rail maintenance technicians employed on the national rail infrastructure as part of a specialist team with Network Rail
  • drivers and crew of trains operated by Eurostar International Limited, essential cross-border workers working for Eurostar International Limited
  • operational, rail maintenance, security and safety workers working on the Channel Tunnel system
  • a worker with specialist technical skills, where those specialist technical skills are required for essential or emergency works or services (including commissioning, maintenance, and repairs and safety checks) to ensure the continued production, supply, movement, manufacture, storage or preservation of goods
  • a worker with specialist technical skills, where those specialist technical skills are required for essential or emergency works (including commissioning, maintenance, repairs and safety checks) or to fulfil contractual obligations or warranty specifications in, or in connection with, waste management facilities used for the management, sorting, treatment, recovery, or disposal of waste (including energy from waste)
  • a worker with specialist technical skills, where those specialist technical skills are required for essential or emergency works to ensure the continued safe and secure operations of the following infrastructure:
    • gas and electricity transmission and distribution networks and system operators
    • gas terminals
    • space infrastructure
  • seamen and masters
  • a pilot, as defined in paragraph 22(1) of Schedule 3A to the Merchant Shipping Act
  • an inspector, and surveyor of ships
  • crew, as defined in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to the Air Navigation Order 2016(h), where such crew have travelled to the UK in the course of their work
  • nuclear personnel who are essential to the safe and secure operations of a licensed nuclear site
  • nuclear emergency responder
  • agency inspector
  • an inspector from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, a specialist aerospace engineer, or a specialist aerospace worker
  • a person engaged in operational, maintenance or safety activities of a downstream oil facility that has a capacity in excess of 20,000 tonnes
  • a postal worker involved in the transport of mail into and out of the UK
  • a person involved in essential maintenance and repair of data infrastructure required to reduce and resolve outages, or in the provision of goods and services to support these activities
  • an information technology or telecommunications professional whose expertise is required to provide an essential or emergency response to threats and incidents relating to the security of any network and information system and ensure the continued operation of any network and information system
  • a person who is engaged in urgent or essential work on electronic communications networks
  • a person who is engaged in urgent or essential work for the BBC’s broadcasting transmission network and services
  • a seasonal agricultural worker who has an offer of employment for seasonal work to carry out specific activities in edible horticulture on a named farm. You can start work immediately but you must self-isolate on the farm. However, you may mix with fellow workers
  • members of diplomatic missions and consular posts in the United Kingdom, officers, servants or representatives of international organisations where their head of mission or equivalent has certified that their work is essential to the functioning of the mission and cannot be undertaken whilst the person is complying with the requirements of self-isolation
  • crown servants or government contractors returning to the United Kingdom who are either:
    • required to undertake policing or essential government work in the United Kingdom within 14 days of their arrival
    • have been undertaking policing or essential government work outside of the United Kingdom but are required to return temporarily, after which they will depart to conduct policing or essential government work outside the United Kingdom. Essential government work includes, in particular, work related to national security and immigration, the coronavirus disease and any other crisis response, and international negotiations
  • international prison escorts - a person designated by the relevant Minister under section 5(3) of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984(a)
  • a person responsible for escorting a person sought for extradition pursuant to a warrant issued under Part 3 of the Extradition Act 2003 or sought for extradition pursuant to any other extradition arrangements
  • defence personnel and contractors doing work necessary for the delivery of essential Defence activities, including Visiting Forces and NATO
  • an official required to work on essential border security duties
  • a person who resides in the UK and who pursues an activity as an employed or self-employed person in another country to which they usually go at least once a week
 

Domh245

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Here's the link to the government page with the list on it if anyone else is wondering: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...vid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules

It is a fairly sensible and quite comprehensive list! I wonder how it ties in with reports that Boris is trying to secure exemptions for F1, possibly (just) under the last point about frequent overseas work, or potentially as hinted at in the linked article, further additions later down the line - probably to be supported by private testing!

The UK's prime minister has reportedly responded to lobbying from Formula 1 to create a quarantine exemption for the sport's travelling personnel by asking his ministers to make it happen.

As previously reported, a 14-day quarantine for arrivals in the UK is due to come into force on 8 June, with a list of exemptions that are considered essential, such as truck drivers and anyone directly connected to efforts to beat COVID-19.

People involved with international sporting competitions have not been included, despite parallel efforts by the government to encourage sport to restart in the UK.

A story in The Times on Monday evening said PM Boris Johnson is keen to help the two planned Silverstone races take place, and has kickstarted the process.

A source has confirmed that the subject was discussed in a cabinet meeting last week.

In essence, the justification is to support the British motor sport industry, with F1 having made clear to its government contacts the importance of holding the races and keeping the 2020 world championship alive.

Sources have suggested that the government was concerned about facing pressure from other businesses or industries that do not receive exemptions.

However, the door has been left open to relax the quarantine with further special case exemptions when the rules are reviewed after three weeks, which would be around 29 June.

As well as allowing Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Alpha Tauri and all continental support race competitors into the country for the British races, the exemption would make it much easier for the UK teams to travel to and from other races.

An F1 spokesman told Autosport that hopes remain high that a solution will be found.

"We are working constructively with government on our safe restart to the season, and those discussions are ongoing," he said.

Although F1 has remained optimistic that racing personnel will eventually be included, the late June deadline has made it difficult to commit to the planned Silverstone dates of 26 July and 2 August, because of the lack of lead time, which is why Hungary and Germany are now being considered for those dates.

Early confirmation of an exemption could allow the original dates to be retained by Silverstone after all. However, circuit boss Stuart Pringle says the option remains to run the British races later in August.
 

Silverlinky

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I wonder how long this 14 day quarantine plan will run for........ Spain brought theirs in on 15th May and are ending it on 1st July, so it was only in place for 6 weeks.

We could possibly only be looking at the end of July, still leaving time for a holiday rush in August.

As for the FO advice, yes that would invalidate travel insurance....but how many travel without insurance anyway as its not mandatory? Perhaps FO advice may change as we move to stage 3 on 1st June anyway?
 

FQTV

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As for the FO advice, yes that would invalidate travel insurance....but how many travel without insurance anyway as its not mandatory? Perhaps FO advice may change as we move to stage 3 on 1st June anyway?

Tour operators will not operate against Foreign & Commonwealth Office advice not to travel, so a huge chunk of the travel industry will remain suspended until that changes. It's worth noting that many of the large resort hotels in the likes of Spain are on sole contracts to specific tour operators such as TUI, and tour operators tend to 'segregate' nationalities quite strictly.

This means that styles of food, styles of service, styles of entertainment etc., etc., can be tailored more closely to the preferences of the target market. Indeed, in some countries and/or islands, whole resort towns are skewed towards one nationality or group of nations. In Mallorca, for example, Magalluf and Palma Nova have always been 'British', whilst Illetas - in plain sight across the Bay of Palma - has always been very Germanic. Meanhwile, I can remember talking to French folks in the 80s who had never, ever heard of Mallorca.

With regard to countries like Spain and Italy lifting quarantine rules for arrivals from other countries, I think that there's still quite a lot of uncertainty about how this will play out when these countries are part of the Schengen Zone. They will have to maintain their land border controls if neighbouring countries do not adopt a common policy. If the British are permitted to enter Italy without quarantine before they're permitted to enter France on the same basis, then Italy will have to maintain the temporary border controls with France. I don't know what the EU position is on this is yet - or perhaps they haven't yet published it.
 

westv

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As for the FO advice, yes that would invalidate travel insurance....but how many travel without insurance anyway as its not mandatory? Perhaps FO advice may change as we move to stage 3 on 1st June anyway?
Only a fool travels abroad without insurance.
 

Silverlinky

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Tour operators will not operate against Foreign & Commonwealth Office advice not to travel, so a huge chunk of the travel industry will remain suspended until that changes. It's worth noting that many of the large resort hotels in the likes of Spain are on sole contracts to specific tour operators such as TUI, and tour operators tend to 'segregate' nationalities quite strictly.

This means that styles of food, styles of service, styles of entertainment etc., etc., can be tailored more closely to the preferences of the target market. Indeed, in some countries and/or islands, whole resort towns are skewed towards one nationality or group of nations. In Mallorca, for example, Magalluf and Palma Nova have always been 'British', whilst Illetas - in plain sight across the Bay of Palma - has always been very Germanic. Meanhwile, I can remember talking to French folks in the 80s who had never, ever heard of Mallorca.

With regard to countries like Spain and Italy lifting quarantine rules for arrivals from other countries, I think that there's still quite a lot of uncertainty about how this will play out when these countries are part of the Schengen Zone. They will have to maintain their land border controls if neighbouring countries do not adopt a common policy. If the British are permitted to enter Italy without quarantine before they're permitted to enter France on the same basis, then Italy will have to maintain the temporary border controls with France. I don't know what the EU position is on this is yet - or perhaps they haven't yet published it.

Tour operators will not but airlines will, Wizz Air is already flying to many destinations, with EasyJet and Ryanair soon to follow, along with Jet 2 and others. Expedia and the like are taking hotel bookings. The days of the inclusive tour operator are on the slide, with Thomas Cook having already gone to the wall.
In my experience some hotels may have been exclusive to the travel group, but within that group they had a German arm, a British arm, a Scandinavian arm etc, so many different nationalities at the same hotel. As well as the hotels there are many B&B's and private villas etc so its going to be relatively easy to travel in a few weeks time.

I thought that the EU had already said that member countries could not discriminate against each other, whether enforcing quarantine on some but not others or exempting some from quarantine and not others, indeed the UK was threatened by the EU when the idea of a French exemption was first mooted....perhaps that's the reason it never came in.
From a news article "According to the European Commission, any restrictive measure on free movement is justified in the interest of public health as long as they are "proportionate and non-discriminatory". As the UK is still in the Transition Period this still applies to us.
 

Silverlinky

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Haviing said that I see that Greece had provided a list of exemptions on travel to their country on the grounds that their record on Coronavirus has not been good enough.

They are barring Italy, Spain, UK, Netherlands, Northern Macedonia, Turkey and Albania.
 

Chester1

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I wonder how long this 14 day quarantine plan will run for........ Spain brought theirs in on 15th May and are ending it on 1st July, so it was only in place for 6 weeks.

We could possibly only be looking at the end of July, still leaving time for a holiday rush in August.

As for the FO advice, yes that would invalidate travel insurance....but how many travel without insurance anyway as its not mandatory? Perhaps FO advice may change as we move to stage 3 on 1st June anyway?

I think the blanket quarantine will be gone by 25th July at the latest i.e. 3 weeks after domestic tourism is due to restart and shortly before families start returning from holidays. They will not want everyone trying to take a UK break, it would be chaos, overload capacity and cause more risk of spread on crowded beaches etc. Lifting the travel advice for Europe on 4th July would tie up with domestic restart. The 14 day quarantine could be place for some countries for a very long time, changing as the virus flares up around the world.

Tour operators will not operate against Foreign & Commonwealth Office advice not to travel, so a huge chunk of the travel industry will remain suspended until that changes. It's worth noting that many of the large resort hotels in the likes of Spain are on sole contracts to specific tour operators such as TUI, and tour operators tend to 'segregate' nationalities quite strictly.

This means that styles of food, styles of service, styles of entertainment etc., etc., can be tailored more closely to the preferences of the target market. Indeed, in some countries and/or islands, whole resort towns are skewed towards one nationality or group of nations. In Mallorca, for example, Magalluf and Palma Nova have always been 'British', whilst Illetas - in plain sight across the Bay of Palma - has always been very Germanic. Meanhwile, I can remember talking to French folks in the 80s who had never, ever heard of Mallorca.

With regard to countries like Spain and Italy lifting quarantine rules for arrivals from other countries, I think that there's still quite a lot of uncertainty about how this will play out when these countries are part of the Schengen Zone. They will have to maintain their land border controls if neighbouring countries do not adopt a common policy. If the British are permitted to enter Italy without quarantine before they're permitted to enter France on the same basis, then Italy will have to maintain the temporary border controls with France. I don't know what the EU position is on this is yet - or perhaps they haven't yet published it.

France has said its maintaining border controls until at least the end of the year. Unless there are flare ups they are likely to be a formality. Schengen treaty allows temporary introduction of national border controls.

Its a fair point on tour operators in regards to numbers, but there are plenty who don't book through them. The travel advice against non essential travel makes it more difficult to go abroad for a holiday but its not a ban.

Only a fool travels abroad without insurance.

Depending on the level of cover offered by EHIC in each individual country and the health of the individual, and their wealth that is not necessarily the case. A young healthy person with no assets has little or nothing to lose if they get ill in many European countries. The risks of being stranded are pretty low in mainland western europe. Its crazy to leave Europe without travel insurance though.
 

westv

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A young healthy person with no assets has little or nothing to lose if they get ill in many European countries. The risks of being stranded are pretty low in mainland western europe.
What if you have to be flown home for medical reasons?
 

plugwash

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Indeed. That's exactly why quarentine should be limited only to flights arriving from high risk areas.
The problem I see with that is that there is a possibility (maybe even a likelihood) that the USA will develop into a "high risk area" at some point in this crisis.

I suspect it's much easier in terms of international politics to have a blanket ban and then negotiate exceptions than it is to place an explicit ban on travel from the USA.
 

FQTV

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Tour operators will not but airlines will, Wizz Air is already flying to many destinations, with EasyJet and Ryanair soon to follow, along with Jet 2 and others. Expedia and the like are taking hotel bookings. The days of the inclusive tour operator are on the slide, with Thomas Cook having already gone to the wall.
In my experience some hotels may have been exclusive to the travel group, but within that group they had a German arm, a British arm, a Scandinavian arm etc, so many different nationalities at the same hotel. As well as the hotels there are many B&B's and private villas etc so its going to be relatively easy to travel in a few weeks time.

I thought that the EU had already said that member countries could not discriminate against each other, whether enforcing quarantine on some but not others or exempting some from quarantine and not others, indeed the UK was threatened by the EU when the idea of a French exemption was first mooted....perhaps that's the reason it never came in.
From a news article "According to the European Commission, any restrictive measure on free movement is justified in the interest of public health as long as they are "proportionate and non-discriminatory". As the UK is still in the Transition Period this still applies to us.

The death of the package tour is one of those persistent urban myths. Office for National Statistics data (up to the most recent set) shows a continuous annual increase in the numbers of U.K. travellers taking a package tour. It was just over 15m people in 2014, and had reached 17.2m by 2018.

Thomas Cook collapsed because of the debt that it was carrying. Jet2.com Holidays, easyJet Holidays, BA Holidays are all growing, as are many others. TUI alone would have expected more than 6m U.K. customers this year.

As with high street retail, it’s the fact that the market has grown so enormously that has driven the bulk of the change to market shares. New entrants and the internet are incremental business, in many cases.

There are indeed instances of tour operators managing inventory at wholly-contracted hotels so that they do sell stays simultaneously to different national markets, but it’s managed fairly carefully and isn’t as common as it might once have been, owing to some unsuccessful experiences.

Anyway, my point is that package tour operations are still a very large part of the market and, by consequence, they define lots of other characteristics of the market as a whole. The Chief Executive of Melià Hotels wrote about the interdependency of all the component parts of the travel industry last week, and suggesting that the critical mass to make operations viable again relies on such a large number of factors, many of which are bipartite, that the complexity is an absolutely enormous challenge, with high risks of things going wrong to start with.

As an example, a Eurowings flight took off from Germany on Sunday, only to return four hours later as the airport that it was heading to turned out to be closed. This was because a local decision to open the airport had subsequently been overturned by a regional authority, and Eurowings hadn’t caught up with the latter change quickly enough.

So yes, Expedia and booking.com etc., will indeed sell a hotel room at present, but they make two points; firstly that they don’t restrict bookings to only be made by those with a definite legal eligibility to travel, and secondly they make it clear that if you book a non-refundable rate, it’s still caveat emptor.

It may not be immediately obvious, too, that a lot of hotels are actually not showing. Some chains are consolidating operations into only some properties in certain locations. Some properties took the decision as early as March that they wouldn’t reopen until October, if their seasonality profile made that sensible. Some properties have not recruited the usual number of staff, or could not, or cannot.

Hotels that are opening or will open are having to look at things like timed access to facilities, disposable towels for loungers, one bulk provision of room towels at check in, ‘bookings’ for plated breakfasts etc. The All Inclusive business model is not apparently compatible with social distancing and hygiene requirements at all where buffets are involved.

Rooms may need to be deep cleaned and then sealed ready for each new guest, and rooms may need to be vacant for a period before the next guest can check in. Some hotels are suggesting 72 hours.

Self catering properties may also need to allow fallow periods, and/or bring check out times forward and push check in times back to allow for additional cleaning.

The entire cruise industry is out of the picture until mid August at the earliest; major events are cancelled and a lot of folks are going to be feeling a severe financial pinch.

And that’s before the real unknowns about second waves of infections are known, or which countries will allow British people in and when, and how long our own inbound quarantine period will last.

The one thing that the travel industry generally is being clearer about is that bookings made before mid March were one thing, and there are allowances for that. But, if you book anything now, you should be aware of the risks and be ready for the possibility that one or more component of your trip may not be possible, but you will not be covered for your inability to avail of other parts as a result.

Unless, of course, you book a package tour......

I think the blanket quarantine will be gone by 25th July at the latest i.e. 3 weeks after domestic tourism is due to restart and shortly before families start returning from holidays. They will not want everyone trying to take a UK break, it would be chaos, overload capacity and cause more risk of spread on crowded beaches etc. Lifting the travel advice for Europe on 4th July would tie up with domestic restart. The 14 day quarantine could be place for some countries for a very long time, changing as the virus flares up around the world.



France has said its maintaining border controls until at least the end of the year. Unless there are flare ups they are likely to be a formality. Schengen treaty allows temporary introduction of national border controls.

Its a fair point on tour operators in regards to numbers, but there are plenty who don't book through them. The travel advice against non essential travel makes it more difficult to go abroad for a holiday but its not a ban.



Depending on the level of cover offered by EHIC in each individual country and the health of the individual, and their wealth that is not necessarily the case. A young healthy person with no assets has little or nothing to lose if they get ill in many European countries. The risks of being stranded are pretty low in mainland western europe. Its crazy to leave Europe without travel insurance though.

It’s very important, I think, to understand what EHIC will and won’t cover cardholders for, and what the actual risks to travellers are.

EHIC cover varies by state, and standards vary by state, and it’s always been a bit of an issue that, sometimes, those relying on it have been (illegally) denied benefits and have had payments demanded. This can be difficult to argue if you don’t speak the language and are in a position of vulnerability. Ethical standards are not uniformly high.

It’s basically there to get you to a hospital and to get you triage treatment in an emergency. If you need a GP to come to your hotel, you’ll need to pay. If you need to see one out of hours, you’ll probably need to pay. You may be required to pay for prescription medication. If you cannot produce your EHIC card and passport then you may not be treated without making payment.

If your illness or injury means that you need to curtail or extend your trip, there is no cover. If you suffer loss such as theft then there is no cover. If you require consular assistance then, given that this is currently reduced during the ‘no travel’ advice, you may be inconvenienced further. Emergency identity documents for the purposes of repatriation may not be available.

Although these are not normal times, it’s worth also noting that, statistically, claims for medical treatment during travel are actually a relatively small part of a travel insurer’s risk profiling.

Anyhow, all of this is to say that travel is really not going to be nearly as easy as some folks seem to think or hope, and the U.K. quarantine arrangements may be completely irrelevant in many cases or, as I suggested upthread, the whole idea of them is to deflect attention away from the fact that many of us will simply not be able to travel as normal by dint of our domestic record in dealing with the virus itself.
 
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Chester1

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3,995
The death of the package tour is one of those persistent urban myths. Office for National Statistics data (up to the most recent set) shows a continuous annual increase in the numbers of U.K. travellers taking a package tour. It was just over 15m people in 2014, and had reached 17.2m by 2018.

Thomas Cook collapsed because of the debt that it was carrying. Jet2.com Holidays, easyJet Holidays, BA Holidays are all growing, as are many others. TUI alone would have expected more than 6m U.K. customers this year.

As with high street retail, it’s the fact that the market has grown so enormously that has driven the bulk of the change to market shares. New entrants and the internet are incremental business, in many cases.

There are indeed instances of tour operators managing inventory at wholly-contracted hotels so that they do sell stays simultaneously to different national markets, but it’s managed fairly carefully and isn’t as common as it might once have been, owing to some unsuccessful experiences.

Anyway, my point is that package tour operations are still a very large part of the market and, by consequence, they define lots of other characteristics of the market as a whole. The Chief Executive of Melià Hotels wrote about the interdependency of all the component parts of the travel industry last week, and suggesting that the critical mass to make operations viable again relies on such a large number of factors, many of which are bipartite, that the complexity is an absolutely enormous challenge, with high risks of things going wrong to start with.

As an example, a Eurowings flight took off from Germany on Sunday, only to return four hours later as the airport that it was heading to turned out to be closed. This was because a local decision to open the airport had subsequently been overturned by a regional authority, and Eurowings hadn’t caught up with the latter change quickly enough.

So yes, Expedia and booking.com etc., will indeed sell a hotel room at present, but they make two points; firstly that they don’t restrict bookings to only be made by those with a definite legal eligibility to travel, and secondly they make it clear that if you book a non-refundable rate, it’s still caveat emptor.

It may not be immediately obvious, too, that a lot of hotels are actually not showing. Some chains are consolidating operations into only some properties in certain locations. Some properties took the decision as early as March that they wouldn’t reopen until October, if their seasonality profile made that sensible. Some properties have not recruited the usual number of staff, or could not, or cannot.

Hotels that are opening or will open are having to look at things like timed access to facilities, disposable towels for loungers, one bulk provision of room towels at check in, ‘bookings’ for plated breakfasts etc. The All Inclusive business model is not apparently compatible with social distancing and hygiene requirements at all where buffets are involved.

Rooms may need to be deep cleaned and then sealed ready for each new guest, and rooms may need to be vacant for a period before the next guest can check in. Some hotels are suggesting 72 hours.

Self catering properties may also need to allow fallow periods, and/or bring check out times forward and push check in times back to allow for additional cleaning.

The entire cruise industry is out of the picture until mid August at the earliest; major events are cancelled and a lot of folks are going to be feeling a severe financial pinch.

And that’s before the real unknowns about second waves of infections are known, or which countries will allow British people in and when, and how long our own inbound quarantine period will last.

The one thing that the travel industry generally is being clearer about is that bookings made before mid March were one thing, and there are allowances for that. But, if you book anything now, you should be aware of the risks and be ready for the possibility that one or more component of your trip may not be possible, but you will not be covered for your inability to avail of other parts as a result.

Unless, of course, you book a package tour......



It’s very important, I think, to understand what EHIC will and won’t cover cardholders for, and what the actual risks to travellers are.

EHIC cover varies by state, and standards vary by state, and it’s always been a bit of an issue that, sometimes, those relying on it have been (illegally) denied benefits and have had payments demanded. This can be difficult to argue if you don’t speak the language and are in a position of vulnerability. Ethical standards are not uniformly high.

It’s basically there to get you to a hospital and to get you triage treatment in an emergency. If you need a GP to come to your hotel, you’ll need to pay. If you need to see one out of hours, you’ll probably need to pay. You may be required to pay for prescription medication. If you cannot produce your EHIC card and passport then you may not be treated without making payment.

If your illness or injury means that you need to curtail or extend your trip, there is no cover. If you suffer loss such as theft then there is no cover. If you require consular assistance then, given that this is currently reduced during the ‘no travel’ advice, you may be inconvenienced further. Emergency identity documents for the purposes of repatriation may not be available.

Although these are not normal times, it’s worth also noting that, statistically, claims for medical treatment during travel are actually a relatively small part of a travel insurer’s risk profiling.

Anyhow, all of this is to say that travel is really not going to be nearly as easy as some folks seem to think or hope, and the U.K. quarantine arrangements may be completely irrelevant in many cases or, as I suggested upthread, the whole idea of them is to deflect attention away from the fact that many of us will simply not be able to travel as normal by dint of our domestic record in dealing with the virus itself.

The issues you outline show why the risk varies depending on the country. Some are keen for British tourists to return and others are not and that will effect how generously Ehic law is interpretated. I am not saying that overseas tourism will be straight forward in the next few weeks, just that it will be possible for Brits from next month, depending on their risk threshold and ability to quarantine on return. The idea that currently appears to be common that Foreign Travel Advice amounts to a ban is not true.

I wonder if insurers in Europe will spot an opportunity and offer full medical cover but not disruption cover to British travellers? The medical costs to insurers from covid-19 are tiny relative to disruption costs and if they insist on Ehic alongside the policy to make it valid then there is money for them to make.

Edit: An example of a holiday next month that could be taken by some Brits next month:

- Choose a country that does not charge Ehic holders for public healthcare
- book flight with a solvent airline on terms that at a minimum allow date changes (or at a price that you are prepared to lose all of your money on)
- book a destination in mainland Europe to increase your options in event of major travel disruption
- book ONE hotel that offers terms of free cancellation until a day or so before arrival. Preferably one that you can afford to travel to and from the airport by taxis and that is in a town and not middle of nowhere.

Based on those criteria Italy (excluding Sicily and Sardinia) would be a decent choice and is viable next month if you are prepared to accept higher than normal risk and quarantine on return. As always flexible booking costs but less than before covid-19.
 
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yorkie

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Well, use public transport, special shopping times in certain supermarkets, and now special immigration rules.

Actually, you're right, I'm just writing a load of nonsense, aren't I? I guess it just seems like more a feeling that Key Workers are talked about a lot more, but actually it's utterly meaningless.
It is nonsense, yes ;) I'm a key worker but I have no additional rights.

The only thing that is different is that some supermarkets are prioritising certain times for key workers, e.g at my local shop I think it's 8am to 9am.

But there is no way of anyone in the shop actually knowing if customers are key workers or not (apart from, in my case, the fact that the last few times I've shopped there the person serving me knows where I work ;))

It's not true that key workers have additional rights to use public transport; everyone can use public transport for any of the reasons defined in the legislation, and everyone who can use an alternative mode of transport (e.g. walking/cycling for shorter trips or cars for longer trips) is encouraged to do so.

But there is a dedicated thread to discuss that further; see: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...llowed-by-the-legislation.204411/post-4595814
 

Tetchytyke

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Sitting in a country 50 miles away which has had more draconian immigration rules than these in place since 16 March, I'm struggling to understand why the UK are so late to the party.

Incidentally, the UK's pathetic response is why our border will be the last thing to re-open, even after the pubs and nightclubs.
 

Bletchleyite

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Sitting in a country 50 miles away which has had more draconian immigration rules than these in place since 16 March, I'm struggling to understand why the UK are so late to the party.

We should have done it in March, but once that ship had sailed there was little point bothering then. Now cases are coming down there's sense in it again.

The IoM is a bit different - primarily, it's really small and has a population smaller than most reasonably sized British towns. This means it's far easier to keep a handle on things. People talked about quarantining London - quarantining the Isle of Man is a bit more like somehow being able to put a wall up round the Peak District or something, or booting West Lancashire off into the Irish Sea.
 

FQTV

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We should have done it in March, but once that ship had sailed there was little point bothering then. Now cases are coming down there's sense in it again.

What is the science behind this, though? It makes some sort of logical sense for low-infection areas such as New Zealand (or indeed IoM) to maintain that status until the rest of the World aligns, but how does that work for a country like the UK which has had such a high number of deaths above norm, and whose R-rate is suggested to be, in places, still above 1, and which has had no restrictions on arrivals and transits during, to invoke quarantine restrictions after the peak?

Separately, I see that Ryanair is actively marketing 'holiday' flights from July 1st and, despite what I said above, they make absolutely no references to travel insurance, quarantine, border status, FCO advice etc., etc. As I did say above, though, this is still very much caveat emptor for anyone who does book.

Although it continues what many may view to be the Ryanair style of playing fast and loose with consumers, I am wondering whether it's also an attempt to effectively force the government into seriously addressing how we go about resuming air travel and when.

The government itself appears to have no interest or ability in setting out clear guidance in that regard, or in engaging with other countries to forumulate strategies which are by necessity bipartite. It seems instead that the government is expecting other countries to make all the moves, whilst using quarantine as a domestic political message to divert from the fact that other countries are not making those moves towards the UK.

In the midst of it, I speculate that Ryanair is taking the 'sod it and sell' stance, in the hope that they'll take more credit for forcing the hand of the government than they will generating approbrium for offering flights to folks who won't ultimately be able to fly.
 

Ianno87

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Sitting in a country 50 miles away which has had more draconian immigration rules than these in place since 16 March, I'm struggling to understand why the UK are so late to the party.

Incidentally, the UK's pathetic response is why our border will be the last thing to re-open, even after the pubs and nightclubs.

I imagine as a result we (the UK) will be sat spending an entire summer watching Europe go off on their summer holidays whilst we're still subject to travel restrictions...
 

Tetchytyke

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The IoM is a bit different - primarily, it's really small and has a population smaller than most reasonably sized British towns. This means it's far easier to keep a handle on things.

I agree it is much easier here to keep a lid on things- with one port and one airport, it's not like you can really sneak in or out. But many of the principles that have worked here- closing the border, enforcing the lockdown with proper rules rather than the English ones which seemingly allow you to drive 30 miles to test your eyesight- could have worked in the UK. I think shutting the border was the main one, but we have people in prison for breaching lockdown rules, which did focus a few minds.

We should have done it in March, but once that ship had sailed there was little point bothering then. Now cases are coming down there's sense in it again.

I don't agree. Given the UK death and infection rate is far higher than the rest of Europe, it feels like cutting your nose off to spite your face. The rest of Europe isn't going to be clamouring to come here, it's mostly going to affect UK people who would rather go on holiday this summer than not. You put the biggest restrictions in when your rates are going up, not when they're going down the other side. It's just madness.

The UK's infection rate is why our border won't be re-opening any time soon, which is rather galling I have to admit.
 
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