Manually operated sliding doors

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py_megapixel

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It seems while they existed on the continent, and some are still in service (I believe the Munich U-bahn and the Paris Metro still have them and the Berlin U-bahn has ones that have been modified to be power operated with buttons in place of the manual handles; don't know if any are left on the mainline railway), that British Rail more or less went straight from slam-doors to hydraulically operated sliding doors.

So did rolling stock anywhere in the UK ever have manually operated sliding doors?
 
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PeterC

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It seems while they existed on the continent, and some are still in service (I believe the Munich U-bahn and the Paris Metro still have them and the Berlin U-bahn has ones that have been modified to be power operated with buttons in place of the manual handles; don't know if any are left on the mainline railway), that British Rail more or less went straight from slam-doors to hydraulically operated sliding doors.

So did rolling stock anywhere in the UK ever have manually operated sliding doors?
All I can think of is the DLR. Power doors but triggered by sliding rather than using a button.
 

Bletchleyite

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All I can think of is the DLR. Power doors but triggered by sliding rather than using a button.

The PEP EMUs (313s, certainly) did that when built, but it was changed - I seem to recall people were pulling too hard and damaging the mechanism, or something like that.

Manual opening and powered closing was quite well established on the Continent - the standard folding slamdoor is a good example even if not sliding.
 

D6130

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So did rolling stock anywhere in the UK ever have manually operated sliding doors?
I'm told that the old EMUs used on the Lancaster-Morecambe-Heysham line until 1966 had them and also the original Glasgow Subway stock, which was in use until 1977 - although these were operated by the driver of guard, depending on which carriage you were riding.
 

Spartacus

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I think the LNWR's London suburban units which I think later ran the Morecambe services had manual sliding doors. Other than that none comes to mind, seem to have straight to air operated doors, with some even being converted from slam to air sliding,
 

RT4038

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Most, if not all London Transport District Line stock built up to 1935, plus certain early classes of Metropolitan Line stock, had manually operated sliding doors.
From 1938 onwards a programme of updating with pneumatic doors and re-formation was started on all District Line stock in service, reclassified into what became known as the 'Q' stock.
 

etr221

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A lot of the earlier railcars - steam and electric - used them.

Apart from the LNWR electric trains, which lasted into late 1950s, the NER and later LNER Tyneside electric trains had them - the LNER units lasted until the late 1960s.

On the London Underground, both Metropolitan and District units had them, lasting into the 1950s.
 

delt1c

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Trying to remember what the original GWR dmu’s had. I am sure they had sliding doors
 

Clarence Yard

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The PEP EMUs (313s, certainly) did that when built, but it was changed - I seem to recall people were pulling too hard and damaging the mechanism, or something like that.

Manual opening and powered closing was quite well established on the Continent - the standard folding slamdoor is a good example even if not sliding.

The 313 units were meant to be fail safe so they couldn’t be opened in traffic but on a press run a BR manager unintentionally demonstrated, in front of everyone, that you could beat the door ram and opened it in traffic! After that embarrassment, the handles were removed.
 

Bletchleyite

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The 313 units were meant to be fail safe so they couldn’t be opened in traffic but on a press run a BR manager unintentionally demonstrated, in front of everyone, that you could beat the door ram and opened it in traffic! After that embarrassment, the handles were removed.

On the Merseyrail units you could pull the doors open easily enough to about a 6" gap (without breaking the interlock) then they'd hit a stop. It was a typical schoolkid game on the trains I took.

We once got stuck at Aughton Park for ages due to a power failure, and when the power goes off 50x doors close automatically, so I had a go myself (tut tut) and couldn't push them past that 6" or so.

I guess the handles would have made it easier to do that, but it wasn't wide enough for anyone to fall out.
 

Taunton

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Before about 1930 power doors were pretty unknown, so anything before that date (most commonly electric stock) had manual open/close. I suspect the last built as such were the 1937 replacement LNER semi-streamlined electric units for Tyneside, which lasted to about 1967. This all applied to both the London Underground and main line. The Tubes had needed some control over the doors due to the very tight clearances, but initially this was done by "gatemen" who worked the end doors of two adjacent cars, and was thus a substantial cost saving incentive to move on to automation.

It was the trigger for pretty much all electric stock built after that point to have air rather than vacuum brakes, the compressor serving both. Some hand-worked stock was converted to air.
 

Mikey C

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On a hot summer's day, it wasn't unknown to see a North Tyneside EMU running with almost all its doors wide open!
I remember local trains in the south of France in the 90s with open doors!
 

route101

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On a hot summer's day, it wasn't unknown to see a North Tyneside EMU running with almost all its doors wide open!
I rode an EMU in Istanbul with all its doors open!

I'm told that the old EMUs used on the Lancaster-Morecambe-Heysham line until 1966 had them and also the original Glasgow Subway stock, which was in use until 1977 - although these were operated by the driver of guard, depending on which carriage you were riding.

Never knew that line used to be electrified.
 

D6130

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I rode an EMU in Istanbul with all its doors open!



Never knew that line used to be electrified.
Yep....electrified by the Midland Railway in 1908 at 6,600 volts AC - almost certainly the first overhead electrification in the UK. By the early 'fifties both the units and the overheads were worn-out, so BR decided to de-energise the original system and re-equip it as a test bed for the forthcoming West Coast mainline high voltage a.c.electrification. It was re-electrified at a mixture of 6.25 Kv and 25 Kv a.c. using mainly the original overhead gantries and stanchions and five ex-LNWR 1914-built three car 3rd and 4th rail EMUs - originally used on the Willesden Junction-Earls Court service - were re-equipped with new a.c. equipment and diamond-frame pantographs to work the service, which re-commenced in 1955 after a few years of steam substitution. These were the units which often ran in fine weather with their sliding doors wide-open. Following the Beeching Report, the Lancaster Castle - Lancaster Green Ayre and Lancaster Green Ayre - Morecambe Promenade sections were closed in 1966, along with the steam-worked ex-Midland line from Wennington. All traffic to and from Morecambe was switched to the ex-LNWR line via Bare Lane and the Heysham branch was dieselised. The old electric line between Lancaster and Morecambe became a walking and cycle path and if you look carefully amongst the undergrowth, you can still see the stumps of some of the OHLE.
 

etr221

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Yep....electrified by the Midland Railway in 1908 at 6,600 volts AC - almost certainly the first overhead electrification in the UK. By the early 'fifties both the units and the overheads were worn-out, so BR decided to de-energise the original system and re-equip it as a test bed for the forthcoming West Coast mainline high voltage a.c.electrification. It was re-electrified at a mixture of 6.25 Kv and 25 Kv a.c. using mainly the original overhead gantries and stanchions and five ex-LNWR 1914-built three car 3rd and 4th rail EMUs - originally used on the Willesden Junction-Earls Court service - were re-equipped with new a.c. equipment and diamond-frame pantographs to work the service, which re-commenced in 1955 after a few years of steam substitution. These were the units which often ran in fine weather with their sliding doors wide-open. Following the Beeching Report, the Lancaster Castle - Lancaster Green Ayre and Lancaster Green Ayre - Morecambe Promenade sections were closed in 1966, along with the steam-worked ex-Midland line from Wennington. All traffic to and from Morecambe was switched to the ex-LNWR line via Bare Lane and the Heysham branch was dieselised. The old electric line between Lancaster and Morecambe became a walking and cycle path and if you look carefully amongst the undergrowth, you can still see the stumps of some of the OHLE.
The original Midland electrification was at 25Hz (or cycles per second, in the language of the time) . The BR re-electrification, in 1953, was at 50Hz (industrial frequency), as a test bed prior to adopting it as a national standard, still at 6600v. My understanding has always been that the OHLE was largely unchanged, apart from a short stretch redone with new experimental type masts as a trial.
 

swt_passenger

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Didn’t the older LNER stock (1937?) used on the Tyneside loop have manual sliding doors?

(Sorry missed the earlier post - search on “Tyneside” missed it for some reason, and still fails. :!: )
 

D6130

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The original Midland electrification was at 25Hz (or cycles per second, in the language of the time) . The BR re-electrification, in 1953, was at 50Hz (industrial frequency), as a test bed prior to adopting it as a national standard, still at 6600v. My understanding has always been that the OHLE was largely unchanged, apart from a short stretch redone with new experimental type masts as a trial.
Thanks for that clarification. My memory is obviouly not what it was for detail. I remember on my first journey over the entire WCML, on the up Royal Scot from Glasgow Central to Euston in September 1966, seeing the overgrown track and rusty ornate OHLE stanchions and gantries curving up the bank into platforms 5 & 6 at Lancaster Castle.
 

PeterC

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The 313 units were meant to be fail safe so they couldn’t be opened in traffic but on a press run a BR manager unintentionally demonstrated, in front of everyone, that you could beat the door ram and opened it in traffic! After that embarrassment, the handles were removed.
The DLR doors could be forced as well but this did trigger the brakes. The supposed "failure" during the royal opening was caused by protection offices trying to jump onto the platform before the train stopped.
 
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