March 2019 Oyster Extensions Confirmed

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by MJN11, 3 Feb 2019.

  1. MJN11

    MJN11 Member

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    Having read up on BBC News, it's confirmed oyster PAYG will be extended in March to the following stations:

    Hadley Wood - Welwyn GC inc Hatfield & Potters Bar

    Epsom

    Elstree & Borehamwood - Luton AP inc St Albans

    Crews Hill - Hertford North

    I consider the Epsom and Luton ext handy as holiday makers can access national rail quicker than buying paper tickets nd lots of passengers mistake Epsom being in the oyster area. Not sure on the logic on the GN ext however

    Useful extensions or not? leave comments
     
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  3. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    The GN extensions are sensible in the event that the GN inner service gets transferred to TfL. Although if this was to happen then Watton at Stone and Stevenage would really need to be added.

    This could also be a price increase via the back door, particularly at weekends as the GN priced Weekend Super Off Peak Day tickets are very good value.
     
  4. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Epsom has been promised for years on end, and it along with the GN ones we're announced late last year. Luton Airport Pway is a nice one too.

    I don't see any actual news since the November announcement and news reports though? A start date? Confirmation regarding numbered zones?
     
    Last edited: 3 Feb 2019
  5. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    If it's anything like Redhill, you may be better off still using paper tickets instead of Oyster if travelling off-peak, but travelling back during the evening peak on Oyster.
     
  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Paper tickets are now cheaper off-peak to Watford Junction as well, if I recall correctly.
     
  7. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Paper tickets are now cheaper in the evening peak.
     
  8. MJN11

    MJN11 Member

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    How much is it by oyster? As I've only used paper tickets going there which I'm aware is £10.50 anytime
     
  9. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I thought Hertford North was soon but WGC not until the autumn? It's apparently a phased operation, although the sooner the better.
     
  10. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    But not between Clapham Junction and Harrow and Wealdstone. Even peak Oyster is cheaper than National Rail.

    It's great that it is extended to Epsom.
     
  11. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    I wonder if Oyster will be accepted on the shuttle bus from Luton Airport Parkway to the Airport? If not I'm sure that will cause a lot of confusion
     
  12. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Does the bus accept contactless?
     
  13. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Here’s the earlier threads from November:
    Oyster Developments
    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/oyster-developments.173360/#post-3721608
    Oyster to Epsom
    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/oyster-to-epsom.174262/
     
  14. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    No, at present cash only, although most passengers currently will have through rail tickets.
     
  15. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Maybe - depends on the fares charged.

    Very much so - but the super off peak tickets could in theory be removed at the whim of the operator / DfT.

    Yes, just about the only things Oyster / Contactless are good for from Redhill are:
    * going to work before 0630
    * making single journeys
    * travelling in morning peak and returning off peak
    * convenience if you don't mind paying for it

    Anything else is better on the paper fare structure, sometimes materially so - e.g. weekends with railcard.

    To be fair, there is some logic in the fare structure they developed from Redhill but and the operators were stung by the initial approach to peak fare capping but without removal of paper tickets there are so many reasons to use the latter when it is in your favour.
     
  16. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    That would only be the case if these tickets were withdrawn but I cant see that happenning can you?
     
  17. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    I can see paper tickets like these being withdrawn (perhaps not in the short term but definitely after an introductory period) - running two fares structures at the same time is bad news for the operators because people choose the cheaper one.

    People (commuters, politicians, user groups etc) are 'clamouring' for the extension of Oyster. If it is introduced over a wider area, why would this not come at the expense of removing the existing fares structure?
     
  18. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    People Clamour for Oyster because they think it will be cheaper all the time whereas this and the Watford example prove that it isnt. Now you go back to the local RUGs and tell them they will lose these cheaper tickets because of Oyster and see what they answer with and if they are as enthusiastic about it then
     
  19. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    There is a convenience factor as well and people would potentially pay more for the ability to touch in and out rather than have to sort out a ticket.

    I think most RUGs would simply cry foul over the fare increase and it would become something else to complain about that doesn't get changed.

    As Oyster extends from London is the 0630-0930 band going to get moved? I am a bit surprised that the DfT didn't enforce a 0430-0930 peak on Oyster outside London.
     
  20. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    The convenience shold never cost more - that was the whole point of Oyster and contacless in London being cheaper than a paper ticket currently so no people wouldnt pay more

    I cant believe you are saying a fare increase is a good thing and are trying to defend it out of convenience. Price rise are never good - you may hve seen stories on the news.
     
  21. PeterC

    PeterC Established Member

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    There are already exceptions outside of zone 6. At Amersham or Watford High Street if you touch in between 09:10 and 09:29 you pay peak fare but it counts towards off peak cap.
     
  22. Skimpot flyer

    Skimpot flyer Member

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    Does that potentially mean someone touching-in on Oyster before 06:30 and coming home off-peak before 16:00 would pay less than a paper ‘anytime’ return?
     
  23. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Yes, that is what currently happens - still subject to the peak cap but the off-peak single fares apply.

    So, for example, touching in at Redhill before 06:30 and London Bridge before 16:00 (or after 19:00) is £6.30 each way but the cap is around £30 (not sure of the right figure).

    A significant difference - £12.60 vs £23.00 for the anytime day return.

    However, at the weekend, a super off peak day return with railcard for the same journey is £6.45.
     
    Last edited: 4 Feb 2019
  24. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Why?

    Just wondering as I know GTR offers a smartcard called the Key which passengers from Stevenage and Watton at Stone amongst others can use to complete their journey now GTR states:

    Can I use a combination of KeyGo with Oyster or contactless payment as my journey involves travel on other services?

    No. As above, you would need to touch out at the end of the KeyGo area, and then re-enter the station using Oyster or contactless in order to continue your journey with another rail operator within the London zones.

    So for these travelling Stevenage to Kings Cross/St Pancras for example they could easily just use the Key and then use Oyster for other services such as LUL services.

    Equally GTR states:

    Where your journeys occur within the yellow London travel area, we will Price Match with the equivalent Oyster zone day fare or Travelcard price.

    So why must TfL extend Oyster to Stevenage?
     
  25. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    I guess the issue is that Oyster (and then Contactless) came first and have developed the trust of travellers.

    I'm not sure people trust KeyGo as it is developed around the 'paper' fare structure and is therefore potentially complicated to understand.

    If anything, it would seem that buying 'paper tickets' for smartphones with 2-d barcode is gaining most traction outside the Oyster area.
     
  26. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    If the GN Inners transfer to TfL then they would have to have Oyster. Having a TfL service on which Oyster couldn't be used would never be allowed.
     
  27. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Problem is if you add Stevenage you will have to extend to Knebworth as well to avoid having an oyster acceptance island (after all the vast majority of folk heading from Stevenage towards London will be catching a fast train rather than the moorgate stopper via the loop).
     
  28. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    isnt the service at Watton at stone supposed to all-but stop in May? Plus going as far as Stevenage would prompt the thorny question of whether LNER ought to be included.
     
  29. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    Then Knebworth and Welwyn North would need to be added. You couldn't have a TfL service operating to Stevenage if Oyster wasn't accepted.

    That's only temporary until the bay platform is built at Stevenage. Hertford Loop services will run half hourly to/from Stevenage once this is built. If the Hertford Loop service is taken over by TfL it will have to accept Oyster. LNER couldn't realistically be excluded or opt out.
     
  30. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    It used to happen at Watford Junction
     
  31. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Yes they could opt out - in the same way that tickets discounted with a gold card aren't valid or there are LNER or GTR only fares.

    (I appreciate that ticket checks are difficult in the last 20 minutes of a long distance journey.)

    http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46573.aspx
     

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