March 2019 Oyster Extensions Confirmed

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by MJN11, 3 Feb 2019.

  1. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    It made off peak travel more expensive for people in London as well (capped on the basis people only want to travel into central London) but they got rid of the cheap paper tickets so people had no choice.

    From a train operator perspective, one of the primary attractions of the TfL fare structure on commuter routes is the opportunity to charge peak fares in the evening peak and the removal of break of journey.

    Biting the bullet and removing the paper fare structure on some of the routes which have already seen extension of Oyster might focus the minds of travellers when they see fares go up.
     
  2. MarlowDonkey

    MarlowDonkey Member

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    Presumably there's no schedule yet for the introduction of Oyster and contactless to stations beyond West Drayton towards Reading.

    When it does happen, it would be a signal that Crossrail/Elizabeth is approaching completion.
     
  3. mattdickinson

    mattdickinson Member

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    TfL have apparently requested to take over the line from December independent of any opening date for the Elizabeth line.
     
  4. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Given it was in the GTR franchise agreement to introduce it, I wonder why they didn't put something in the SWR franchise agreement?
     
  5. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Probably because GTR are the station facility operator and presumably in charge of modifying the gatelines for Oyster PAYG. Not really much for SWR to do if they’re happy with the fares being revenue neutral.
     
  6. VT 390

    VT 390 Member

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    Will there be contactless and Oyster at Reading?
    How will it know if you use Crossrail or a fast GWR service to Paddington as I would have thought that the Crossrail option will be cheaper otherwise no one would use it to go from Reading to London would they?
     
  7. mattdickinson

    mattdickinson Member

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    Theoretically different fares could be charged at the Paddington platforms 2-5 gateline.
     
  8. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Are they aiming for people to use it between Reading and London? There's stoppers at the moment. They're the same price for walk-up travel as the fast trains. But people may go Reading to Burnham - or they may decide they can put up with being in London slower if they save a change at Paddington.
     
  9. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Yes there will be contactless and Oyster at Reading. TfL won't run a service if it can't be paid for in that way.
    It's the same at Shenfield, either use the slow TfL Rail or the fast GA to Stratford and Liverpool Street. Same fares.
     
  10. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Well, though it's a reasonable analogy, Reading is 36 miles out of London - nearly twice the 20 miles that Shenfield is.
     
  11. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    Since for fare calculations Reading and Reading West are regarded as the same. I wonder if there will be contactless and Oyster at Reading west too. Anyone know?
     
  12. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    I don't think that's intended. It will be no different to any other station where this already applies now (or will do upon the extension of Oyster). For example, Hertford North doesn't yet accept Oyster/contactless, despite most fares being the same, or almost the same, from both Hertford stations (or indeed from the Hertford Stations group).

    It's difficult to set a boundary when stations are very close to each other, without annoying some people. It's only when there is a natural 'gap', such as between Bedwyn and Pewsey, that it is less liable to be complained about.
     
  13. si404

    si404 Member

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    The PAYG consultation has Reading West in the expansion programme. Given the barrier to expansion of Oyster/PAYG to Reading West is low, I'd suggest that it is one of the more likely expansions proposed there.
     
  14. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    The very document you've linked to shows Reading West as being outside the "proposed PAYG area"!
     
  15. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Although this is a sideways comment in relation to the main topic, if my memory is not playing tricks on me, I seem to remember that Bedwyn was as far as Network SouthEast stretched, with Pewsey onwards falling under Regional Railways Wales & West.

    Perhaps somebody local to that area could confirm?
     
  16. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    That is indeed the case, and though from a geographical standpoint Pewsey might have been more justifiable than Bedwyn in terms of a boundary station (the gap from Pewsey to Westbury being a more reasonable distance to set as a boundary, at 20 miles vs 8 miles apart, unfortunately Bedwyn was chosen, and I doubt that will ever change! The Network Railcard map still shows the boundary of what was considered NSE territory (though of course NSE did operate outside their 'patch', most notably to Peterborough and, I believe, Ipswich).
     
  17. si404

    si404 Member

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    Yes - on the small scale maps, and the text only refers to 'Reading'. However, the detailed maps at the end have it on there.
     
  18. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Well, the fact that the dot which represents Reading West is also shown as outside the PAYG area doesn't exactly help. They seem to be rather confused!
     
  19. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    Thanks for posting the link to that document. Its a shame the link in the document to enter an online response does not work. :(
     
  20. LK717

    LK717 Member

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    Been having a look at oyster fares from Hertford North and it looks like they have changed a little bit since the single fare finder first included HFN and it looks like some paper tickets are changing ever so slightly.
    For example a single on oyster from Hertford north to palmers green is £4.50 at peak. So for a return, £9. Currently from the ticket machine a paper ticket return is £8.50, however if you check the GN website it’s now gone up to £9

    And in regards to an off peak travel card, using NR card as an example it’s currently £12.35 soon to be raised to £12.40 to be in line with oyster capping.

    Also worth noting a single to Moorgate has changed from £8.50 to £8.20.

    (Sorry for the switching between normal fares and railcard fares! Just as I got a travel card today I know the prices!)

    It is now also 10p cheaper for a return from Hertford north to ally pally.

    I feel like there will be a few more changes over the next couple of weeks.

    Though kind of sneaky of GN to raise their fares in some cases to match oyster...
     
  21. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    I have Avantix, which is effectively a cached version of the fares database. I can't see most of these increases. The Anytime Day Return from Hertford North (HFN) to Palmers Green (PAL) was £9.00 at the beginning of this year, and it was £8.80 last year. So I'm not sure where you're getting £8.50 from.
     
  22. LK717

    LK717 Member

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    Looks like this was a mistake on my part... The ticket I was shown was palmers green to hfn... not the other way round. Though raises a question of why it costs 50p more to go in a different direction?
     
  23. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Directional peak pricing. It's a relatively common thing on London commuter routes, originally having been introduced by Network SouthEast I believe, and having been 'frozen' into the fare structure through the limited fare increases. For example, Exeter to London via Honiton Anytime Day Return costs £135.90 in that direction, but just £87.70 in the other direction (away from London).
     
  24. mattdickinson

    mattdickinson Member

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    SWR have a franchise obligation (page 380)to introduce their own PAYG offer (Tap2Go) by the end of 2018 (which didn't happen) to

    Winsdor & Eton Riverside to Feltham; Shepperton to Hampton;
    Cobham & Stoke D’Abernon and Weybridge to Surbiton
     
  25. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Been told that Oyster only gets as far as Potters Bar, which becomes part of the zonal system and sorts out the anomaly of it being Oyster/CPC for buses but not trains.

    Brookmans Park to Welwyn Garden City will be contactless cards only?
     
  26. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    That isn't a "promo." £1.50 is the standard Off-peak fare for TfL services in Zones 2-6 [except TfL Rail and Overground services to/from Liverpool St]. It doesn't apply to most National Rail services, including the ones on your route.
     
  27. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    That doesn't make sense though, Oyster has been stated it's coming to Welwyn Garden City so are they now back tracking on what's been said and confirmed publicly?

    A bigger issue is Hertford North and what zone it will come under because Hertford East comes under Zone B so you would think that Hertford North would also come under Zone B?

    Also as you have Hertford Stations tickets it makes sense for both Hertford stations to be in the same Oyster Zone would it not?

    Cuffley and Bayford could come under Zone 7 which would leave what zones would Brookmans Park to Welwyn Garden City come under?
     
  28. si404

    si404 Member

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    Hertford North is zone B, as is Bayford. Cuffley zone 9. (source - bottom of page 3)

    Fares are (or were, when I got them off the single fare finder last month):
    Note that Bayford is slightly cheaper than Hertford North for some, despite being in the same zone. The fares are also not the same as Greater Anglia's Zone B fares.
     
  29. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    That document confirms contactless only (no Oyster) at certain stations.
     
  30. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    It feels like that is a way to stop people railcard discounts on the extensions!
     

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